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Some considerations regarding rape.
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Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/7/14

Davidvauhn wrote:


CamCab04 wrote:


TheOmegaForce70941 wrote:

The thing is that people always tend to be more sympathetic towards someone whom have been victimized, thus you have a big problem with rape here.


I fail to understand how sympathizing with some who has been raped is a big problem? I think this world lacks too much sympathy and applies too much blame.


I think he's trying to say the problem is that the person being victimized is going to get support regardless of whether or not they're telling the truth. This is part of the reason why the mere accusation of rape can ruin peoples lives, even if they're completely innocent.


But this isn't true. Please bring me forth data of how many false rape accusations there are as compared to how many actual rapes there are. The truth is a man getting a false rape accusation is the equivalent of getting struck by lightning aka rare. While a women getting raped is a real issue women face daily. If men really have a fear of being accused of rape then why don't they do what they tell their female counterparts to do and protect themselves I mean its never the offenders fault right? Why don't men stop having casual sex and one night stands? Seems to me like women just always get the short end of the stick either way you look at it. In the end the idea of false rape allegations really just add to the whitewashing of rapist by demeaning the claims of women and adding insult to injury. Its really hard as a woman to come forth when they have been raped, not mention a rape kit is not cheap and hospital charges are not cheap. Then most of the time they aren't taken seriously and there is no justice, he just maybe gets listed in the system as a sexual offender for future reference and goes on about his life. Rape accusation does not ruin lives, rape ruins lives, many women suffer for years to regain their mental health after a rape and then have the added on the tidbit that their offender is running free while their life slowly falls to shambles.
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Posted 12/6/14

CamCab04 wrote:


Davidvauhn wrote:


CamCab04 wrote:


TheOmegaForce70941 wrote:

The thing is that people always tend to be more sympathetic towards someone whom have been victimized, thus you have a big problem with rape here.


I fail to understand how sympathizing with some who has been raped is a big problem? I think this world lacks too much sympathy and applies too much blame.


I think he's trying to say the problem is that the person being victimized is going to get support regardless of whether or not they're telling the truth. This is part of the reason why the mere accusation of rape can ruin peoples lives, even if they're completely innocent.


But this isn't true. Please bring me forth data of how many false rape accusations there are as compared to how many actual rapes there are. The truth is a man getting a false rape accusation is the equivalent of getting struck by lightning aka rare. While a women getting raped is a real issue women face daily. If men really have a fear of being accused of rape then why don't they do what they tell their female counterparts to do and protect themselves I mean its never the offenders fault right? Why don't men stop having casual sex and one night stands? Seems to me like women just always get the short end of the stick either way you look at it. In the end the idea of false rape allegations really just add to the whitewashing of rapist by demeaning the claims of women and adding insult to injury. Its really hard as a woman to come forth when they have been raped, not mention a rape kit is not cheap and hospital charges are not cheap. Then most of the time they aren't taken seriously and there is no justice, he just maybe gets listed in the system as a sexual offender for future reference and goes on about his life. Rape accusation does not ruin lives, rape ruins lives, many women suffer for years to regain their mental health after a rape and then have the added on the tidbit that their offender is running free while their life slowly falls to shambles.


I'll pass.
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Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/8/14
I want to penetrate this thread with an iron cactus dildo.
Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/6/14
I see this is becoming a gender thing again. Why am I not surprised?

As for the topic, I'll just post these here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKgrYVtYSCk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNsJ1DhqQ-s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu90VKEa2xk

I love this woman, by the way.
Posted 12/7/14 , edited 12/7/14
Due to the traumatic, life-altering act that constitutes rape, every allegation must be taken seriously and investigated, because the offender if guilty may repeat the offense on another person. OP is right, forensics aside its her word against his. They'd have to look at the circumstances and weigh then make a judgement.

Blaming the victims is bad karma, as is dismissing their ordeal. These things come back on you, you know, the natural order of the universe, that sort of thing.

As for false allegations, its not so much emphasised because of statistics and the thought of letting a potential rapist go free.
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Posted 12/7/14

mhibicke wrote:


serifsansserif wrote:
No, I got that, and, I can't understand why they multipled as they did when they say also a large portion of the rape-ees are repeat victims. Considering that and the mathematical extrapolations i REALLY want to see a complete 5 year study done before I take their word for it.

Additionally, further down in the text, you'll see they did some sort of a double test, one of which had a pre-screening fo sorts, and somehow the prescreening and wording apparently gave them 11 times the results which their concurrent study had. 11 times higher seems strange and does not leave me to believe that testing was done in a fair manner.

Additionally, the definition of "rape" and "Sexual assault" are very varied, as well as very broad. In some cases, it can be legitimately considered rape to have sex with some whiny kid who has begged you to sleep with him and then you both get it one while you're both drunk.


I don't know that 22.8% can be considered a "large portion", but the repeated victimization did lead to pointing out that "incidents" and "victims" were different. But yeah, their math isn't as clear as it should be. Also, I'm a REAL scientist, and so I get incredibly frustrated while reading psych and socio papers due to the difficulty with quantification, and make precise replication very difficult. The comparison study used different wording to ask similar questions and got different results. Not a surprise. Since I didn't see a script for either the initial study or the comparison study, I can't make a judgement as to the quality of the questions.

However, I think that the take-home point to the comparison study discussion is that of the women who had experienced "completed rape" according to the legal definition, only 46.5% agreed that yes, they had been raped. If you believe the comparative study, then you must assume that an approximately similar amount of rapes in the general population are being reported to the police. Which is again, very similar to the stats that I'm accustomed to, and very different from the 2-4% that has your panties in a bunch.

I heard of a survey study that questioned about 1500 MEN, asking them whether or not they had performed certain actions, and used the legal description of various forms of sexual assault, without using words like "rape", "assault", or "coercion". Interestingly, the self-reports of the men regarding sexual assaults were almost identical to the self-reports of women in previous studies (which would be the 25% and 30% numbers, not the 2%), except that under 15% of the men were responsible for ALL of the sexual assaults, and of that number less than 7% were responsible for more than half. If I remember correctly (from second-hand information - trusted source, but still second-hand), only about 5.5% of the men were responsible for about 70% of the assaults. If I can find the publication first-hand I'll post a link.

EDIT**FOUND IT** http://www.davidlisak.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/RepeatRapeinUndetectedRapists.pdf
Of the 1882 college-age men, of which 120 admitted to 483 rapes, which is 25.66 incidents/1000 people (26%). 6.8% of the men committed ALL the rapes (and attempted rapes), and 63.3% of the rapists committed MULTIPLE rapes, meaning that 4.05% of respondents were responsible for an average of 5.8 rapes each.


The fact that most men aren't sexually predatory is one that isn't recognized as often as it should be. Let's use infanticide as an example: Newborn infants (a few days old) in the U.S. are occasionally murdered by their mothers (think dumpster babies and postpartum psychosis). I don't have the numbers on this one, but let's say that mothers are THE MOST LIKELY demographic to murder newborn babies. Obviously this doesn't mean that all mothers of neonates are vicious murderers, but that mothers of neonates have the highest rate of interaction with newborn babies, and are (due to postpartum issues) much more likely to be batshit crazy than at other times.


Thanks... It's disturbing when you get a very high number from a very low number.

It's kinda like the birthday problem. It only requires 22 people in a room to produce a 90% chance of two of them sharing a birthday...

Another stat that I saw while rifling through those reports was just how much sexual assault and rape actually happens to children and teens.

Overall, the numbers do seem to trend downward overall, with the male victims numbers rising. (this, honestly, i wouldn't be surprised is primarily about how it is easier to come forward and report for men these days, and, my guess is they'll probably normalize similar to women's, while, overall, numbers decrease).
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Posted 12/7/14 , edited 12/7/14

xDeadlyDollx wrote:

I see this is becoming a gender thing again. Why am I not surprised?

As for the topic, I'll just post these here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKgrYVtYSCk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNsJ1DhqQ-s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu90VKEa2xk

I love this woman, by the way.


I dunno.. she strikes me as almost too old fashioned, and not quite feminist enough.

O.o

My OP point was more....


Sarah_Blight wrote:

Due to the traumatic, life-altering act that constitutes rape, every allegation must be taken seriously and investigated, because the offender if guilty may repeat the offense on another person. OP is right, forensics aside its her word against his. They'd have to look at the circumstances and weigh then make a judgement.


Blaming the victims is bad karma, as is dismissing their ordeal. These things come back on you, you know, the natural order of the universe, that sort of thing.

As for false allegations, its not so much emphasised because of statistics and the thought of letting a potential rapist go free.



That... Except I'm not blaming victims as much as you'd think. I'm saying, "welll..... stop being a fucking idiot."

If someone was talking shit to someone else, and then got into a fight and got injured because of it, we'd say, "well, you kinda deserved it"

Darwin awards anyone?

As this goes on my suspicions on how many are false, how many are due to self induced impairment etc. is swaying back and forth as we have yet to produce numbers (and am getting to the point where I need a keen eye for these figures which some say sexual assault and some say rape).

I'm not even saying their large numbers. (though we've been getting pretty good and making tiny numbers really big lately).
Posted 12/7/14 , edited 12/7/14
7-10% of all rape reports are false apparently. Let me see if I can dig up the source of my info. It is also noteworthy that some believe that the rape statistic in colleges is inflated by drunken sex, but it depends on whether or not you believe drunken sex is tantamount to rape.

Edit: No one knows, for it is a dark number.
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-19/how-many-rape-reports-are-false
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Posted 12/7/14 , edited 12/7/14
my mind went stupid for a bit and i thought this thread was going to be about being considerate when raping. i was like "who would make this".
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Posted 12/7/14

serifsansserif wrote:

Considering other than police brutality and sexism, rape tends to pop up high on the general discussion list these days, here's a few things I think are worth consideration:

1. Rape is difficult to prove. There's often little evidence, unless there's witnesses, or there's force (which leaves bruises) or physical *ahem* remains of the act. The more time that progresses between the act and the reporting means that evidence rapidly starts disappearing, often leading to cases of he said/she said.

2. Accusations of rape can damage a person for a lifetime. Even if you are proven innocent, the accusations are like a scarlet letter which you wear every day of your unless you physically move from where you reside, and start a completely different job. With the internet, that still may not be enough. This is mainly because a simple accusation is often taken as being a "guilty until proven innocent" crime in the eyes of the public, if not the court. It's even worse when the jury of your peers is pulled from that same public.

3.The punishment of the crime MAY be something someone might consider a bit too severe because it is often a case of he said/she said, and juries may side with the victims (see the fact that in the eyes of the public how you're automatically assumed guilty). Being convicted of rape means long prison sentences and possibly a lifetime registration on a list of sex offenders. It's a hefty crime, but it's also a hefty fine if you're falsely acquitted. (I doubt it's often the case, but if it were to happen, I'd not want to be one of the innocent yet convicted).

4. With how much people like to shed personal responsibility and safety these days (and often state it's someone else's fault), and how much is assumed that the "victim" is always right, it's actually incredibly damaging for both the accused and victims, as the chances of being falsely accused are high in certain situations, as well as actually getting raped because you willfully put yourself in a situation where you have impaired judgement (seriously. don't drink and have sex, or drink to the point where you will have sex with anything or anyone you might regret).

EDIT:

5. LINGUISTICS: http://youtu.be/3-son3EJTrU

Watch the video. Linguistics and veiled requests play a HUGE role in how we communicate consent. This in turn affects what is and is not considered consent.

So go ahead, feel free to discuss those points.


I want to hit up on 4 too.

In certain circumstances you could say rape victims victimize themselves by placing themselves in such situations by making wrong decisions such as drinking or walking down a dark alley etc. However, there are other cases where the young are abused against their will, have no say, are sometimes not matured or even old enough to comprehend what is happening to them, in which cases I would deem rape a crime worth punishing for to the utmost extent.

And I'd say from the mind-set of those that conduct rape, it is somewhere on the lines of they know what they are getting themselves into they are willing to sacrifice anything for lust. It's similar to how we "non-rapists" used to love cookies and stole one from our mom's kitchen when she wasn't looking. When you want something really bad, you take it. You will deal with the consequences later or never get caught.

As for accusations it is harder to believe that it is not true and safer to believe that it is true, and it is easier to mend something that is untrue, than true. If someone falsely accused me of being a rapist I'd be ok with it, maybe a little angry if it was a good friend(I don't see why you wouldn't if you know you didn't do anything bad), but if they apologized later its all good

if I were a genuine rapist that had a close call of being caught, I would probably be a bit nervous and traumatized, maybe even attempt to victimize myself to save myself.

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Posted 12/7/14
inb4 rape joke
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Posted 12/7/14

TomCraft wrote:

inb4 rape joke


You already missed it. It was deleted.
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Posted 12/7/14 , edited 12/7/14
http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/xx_factor/2013/rape%20infographic.jpg.CROP.rectangle3-large.jpg

You only ever hear about the cases with someone who accuses someone else of rape and then it turns out to be false, because the media likes a "good, interesting story" and most people just watching the news never have to experience anything like rape or any type of fear of being raped.
What you don't hear about are the countless rapes that never get reported, simply because our society has shaped young women to feel like "they should be lucky" if they're ugly, or "they deserved it" if they leave their house, and that they SHOULDN'T tell anyone about it because it could "ruin a young mans life" if people find out he's a rapist. Society also tends to tell women to not be raped, but tells men that their sexuality is something that needs to be acted upon for them to "be a man."
These issues are more than just "This guy was accused of being a rapist but he's not so obviously all women are lying when they say they were raped!" Attitudes like that only reflect of victims of sexual abuse and rape and only further their encouragement of not speaking out about it. So do threads like this.
Point is, rape is a SERIOUS issue for both men and women, and just because you hear about a few cases being false, doesn't mean that people need to start treating rape more lightly.
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Posted 12/7/14
OP,

I stopped reading after the first sentence of your number one.

It's not hard for a woman to send a man away to prison for rape. The only time it's difficult to prove is if a man was raped because people don't like to think that it's possible. When it comes to women accusing men though all that's needed to send a man behind bars is a pointed finger and the saying, "That's him! That's the guy who raped me!". Some places don't even bother to run a rape kit on the supposed victim or do a psych evaluation or any of the necessary precautions.

Even if the doctors and police do their jobs and prove that a womans accusation of rape was false, just the fact that the accusation is out there is enough to ruin somebody. Might as well kill yourself at that point even if you are exonerated because no job will hire you, any girl who knows about it wont get near you, any girl who doesn't will leave you as soon as they do, or even worse use it as an excuse to accuse you again the next time you really piss them off.

Part of the reason why I am glad I am single. Between being cheated on by 5 of my 5 ex-girlfriends, being friend-zoned(you know friend-zoned, where they come to you for all of their relationship needs but never bothering to return the favor) by many others to the point where I've lost count, on top of all the news reports and crap over the years of women submitting false accusations of rape.

I've come to the consensus that women just aren't worth trusting.
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Posted 12/7/14

I think that the increasing reports of rapes of males is mistakenly believed to be men raped by women. While this is technically possible, there are not enough reports to include them in the statistical analysis of law enforcement logs. Meaning that the studies included 0 reports of males reporting rape by females. The increasing reports of males who have been raped are reporting rape by other men, and the reason it's increasing isn't because rapists just recently started raping men, but because the legal definition of rape changed in 2011 to include men as potential victims.

As for magical (and oft-quoted) statistics, I also get uncomfortable when numbers don't make sense. It makes it very difficult to believe that I'm not being lied to, especially when the sources are mysterious, or don't seem to agree with what people are claiming. Since most people don't actually understand statistics or how to interpret them, they often use the same statistics to support whatever they feel like believing, whether or not it actually applies. Take this guy for example:



The Bloomberg article is an op-ed that discusses the subject, but does not provide the 7-10% number. The 7-10% is most reliably supported by the article I linked in a previous post. http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf The report classified the evidence from 136 sexual assaults (rape and attempted rape) and found that 5.9% had been shown false by evidence found during investigation. Of that 5.9%, half were reports made on behalf of the alleged victim, and not by the alleged victim herself (all the false reports were regarding females). Using this number it is reasonable to conclude that people reporting that they have been sexually assaulted (rape or attempted rape) are NOT lying (97% for women and 100% chance for men), and that people reporting that SOMEONE ELSE (friend, girlfriend, daughter, etc) has been sexually assaulted doesn't know wtf they are talking about.

Also, "drunken sex" is definitively rape, provided that the amount of alcohol ingested is sufficient to incapacitate the victim in such a way that s/he is unable to provide consent. This is often interpreted to mean that once alcohol is involved, consensual sex is not a possibility, which blows because obviously alcohol makes consensual sex both more likely and more fun. However, what it actually means is that when someone is inebriated to the point of incapacitation - unable to talk, move, think, and/or remember his/her choices, then that person is unable to have consensual sex. In other words, don't f*ck someone who is sleeping.

And then there's this guy:



I'm literally at a loss for words to express how dumb that is. So much fail.

So women and children are smaller and weaker than men, and we should realize that men are dangerous, opportunistic predators that will rape anyone small and weak, especially if they have been drinking alcohol and/or are walking in a place dark and full of terrors.
Kaito-Seigi, you should quit raping the drunken children you find wandering dark alleys.

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