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Some considerations regarding rape.
Posted 12/7/14 , edited 12/7/14

yonmega wrote:

my mind went stupid for a bit and i thought this thread was going to be about being considerate when raping. i was like "who would make this".


lol


jeanius- wrote:
all the news reports and crap over the years of women submitting false accusations of rape.


lol, reminds me of this story;

http://www.cotwa.info/2014/04/woman-allegedly-cried-rape-11-times-to.html

just to avoid taking the bar exam. though i don't remember it saying ''11 times'' at the time i came across this news, earlier on this year. 11 times is pretty hilarious. it's like fraudsters... don't know when to stop.
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Posted 12/7/14

ghostwarrior88 wrote:


Dubnoman wrote:

Like I said in a thread recently, most rapes in America aren't "some mad man leaping from the bushes and raping a woman" or something like that. The majority of the time, it is two people who know each other, and then some time they are together and maybe something like the two of them begin to have some intimacy and then one person moves to intercourse while the other doesn't really want it, intercourse happens (without violent force and violent opposition), and there you have it, rape occurs. Something like this is technically non-consensual, but it isn't like the oft thought stereotype of, say, a guy violently forcing himself on a woman while she screams for help and struggles to get out from under him.


I would very much like to say that if there is no effort to resist AND no verbal issuance of the command "STOP FUCKING DOING THAT!!!" in the scenario you provided, how is the advancing party supposed to know they are doing something wrong?

I'm afraid to have sex again if something like that is rape. Your saying all someone has to do is not like the experience, there is a difference between being raped and choosing a lousy partner.




In the example I gave, the person who doesn't want sexual intercourse could say things like "no, I don't want to do this" and "no, stop it!" but then the scenario plays out like I said (without violent force and a person violently fighting them off)...so the point is, it ends up being non-consensual, and it is technically rape.

Just to clarify: There would have to be verbal communication of not wanting intercourse. The text you quoted; I didn't specifically mention that. I admit I could have worded some of the things I wrote differently. The point I was trying to make is that if it is non-consensual, it is rape. But it doesn't have to be a violent altercation to be rape.
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Posted 12/7/14

GayAsianBoy wrote:

but what you also have to realise is that rape victims usually don't come out to confess... as they feel very shameful... they only say it like 10 to 20 years later when they have the courage etc.


Rape can fuck you up. Both literally and mentally.
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Posted 12/7/14

applestash wrote:

It should be a norm for both parties to sign an agreement form right before having sex. Too lazy/drunk to sign a form? You face the consequences.


And then if someone threatens you to sign it, perhaps having you at gunpoint, well there's the evidence that it was consensual right? Because after that point it's he said/she said.

In any case, I do believe there's a bad stigma to rape. I think our society needs to place less stigma on both accused and victims coming forth until a verdict is reached. Just as people can become shunned by society when another person claims they're a rapist, it can be very difficult for a woman/man to come forth (especially with the shame that comes from being raped) when they get harassed by unbelieving and prejudiced officers/judges/juries and peers. A lot of people who have been raped have been scared out of the courts or have even had to move because pressure from others in the area have been too bad.

I personally want to see more clarity and less prejudice for both sides in court until final verdicts are given.
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Posted 12/7/14 , edited 12/7/14

Kaito-Seigi wrote:
However, there are other cases where the young are abused against their will, have no say, are sometimes not matured or even old enough to comprehend what is happening to them, in which cases I would deem rape a crime worth punishing for to the utmost extent.


I kinda get what you mean. I didn't know what exactly counted as rape versus other charges like child molestation, that would factor into the rape numbers. That's where my comment about minors popped up The FBI guidelines that I posted were illuminating (it also had for its examples, cases of men raping men, women raping men, underage consensual sex (AKA statutory rape") and so on).



Kaito-Seigi wrote:
As for accusations it is harder to believe that it is not true and safer to believe that it is true, and it is easier to mend something that is untrue, than true. If someone falsely accused me of being a rapist I'd be ok with it, maybe a little angry if it was a good friend(I don't see why you wouldn't if you know you didn't do anything bad), but if they apologized later its all good


You're lucky nobody has ever questioned your morality.

I let someone sleep on my sofa one night because they had no place to go (doing a GOOD thing, a MORALLY SOUND thing), and apparently someone saw me taking them back to my apartment, and ASSUMED that: 1. the person I was taking home was drastically underage (actually was a case of 20 but looks 12), and ASSUMED she was mentally challenged (just stupidly fucking childish and geeky), and ASSUMED my intentions were sexual (telling someone they can sleep on the couch in a completely different room than my own, and I had a roommate).

It was less than 12 hours since I took this person home that I end up going about my daily business and I got to suffer first hand how people treat you when they ASSUME you committed rape. I made damned sure to clear my name ASAP and have the girl in question (who I was helping remember) tell people what really happened (couldn't get a ride, crashed on my sofa while I went off and crashed on my bed in my bedroom)....

It's NOT an experience to take lightly.
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Posted 12/7/14

Dubnoman wrote:

In the example I gave, the person who doesn't want sexual intercourse could say things like "no, I don't want to do this" and "no, stop it!" but then the scenario plays out like I said (without violent force and a person violently fighting them off)...so the point is, it ends up being non-consensual, and it is technically rape.

Just to clarify: There would have to be verbal communication of not wanting intercourse. The text you quoted; I didn't specifically mention that. I admit I could have worded some of the things I wrote differently. The point I was trying to make is that if it is non-consensual, it is rape. But it doesn't have to be a violent altercation to be rape.


In that case I have wonder about the probability of non-consensual sex(after saying no, continuing to say no) occurring without violent force/resistance, in situations outside of being intoxicated. I have conversed with some women between 35-45 who have said when they were in college campus police would tell them not to fight back so they don't get fucked up even more or killed, but that seems stupid to me. Outside of DNA evidence, unless something is on camera/video or tape recorder it's words vs. more words. Defensive wounds are a prosecutors gold mine. I could very well just be another dummy who has been hit in the head too many times, but "if you're being raped, let it happen because it will be less unpleasant" is the most asinine philosophy I have ever heard.

To clarify one point from earlier, I'm not talking about date rape involving a person being drugged, only cases where the victim was under the influence of a mind altering substance they have ingested of their own accord. At what point is an individuals right to give consent over-ruled by the decisions of their immediate past? Should there be a limit?

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Posted 12/7/14 , edited 12/7/14

ghostwarrior88 wrote:




Gah, I just double checked things...I remember reading something years ago and then I misremembered things.

Not all rapes are violent altercations, that is true. However, what I got all mixed up is that the majority of rapes are not between a person and a stranger, but rather between two people that know each other some how. I was saying that the majority of rapes are not violent altercations, but what the case really is is that the majority of rapes happen between two people who know each other. So yeah, most rapes are either where there is an altercation (the oppressed struggles against the oppressor), or a violent altercation.


Here is a useful link.

http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/commonmyths2.php


What I was trying to tell you, I read before (about non-consensual, but not an altercation). What I read was probably how that happens in some cases of rape, but not the majority of time (like I was saying).
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Posted 12/11/14 , edited 12/11/14


I would be pretty angry too if it was someone I helped or someone close that I trusted and expected to trust me. Most likely not talk to them for a while and depending on who it was maybe even end the relationship completely. However, if they truly believed I was a threat, and maybe I was, I wouldn't have expected anything less, because I avoided a bullet and so did my potential victim. I would expect the same of anyone else in a similar situation. However, I would expect them to confront me about it first by saying something like "are you taking advantage of this women, or maybe start with how old is she, or anything really for that matter", before they reported it to the police, and they are welcome to spy on me or watch me every step of the way and call the police if I hypothetically do, do anything. But nobody should rush to such conclusions with a lack of information based on assumptions.

However, I do believe that depending on how drastic the case is, those that make False Accusations should be punished as it is a criminal act, maybe not as vile as rape, but still against the law, it essentially strips freedom away from an innocent.

There punishment should be a ticket of some sort or fine for either lying or not taking the time to gather the truth. Sadly the flaw to this is that some people may not report something afraid that they will lose money. But if you are confident that you caught a rapist red-handed and really want to be a compassionate human being, then you would turn them in regardless of money or not with sufficient belief that "you truly believe this guy or a gal" is a rapist in order to protect another.
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Posted 12/11/14
i know some persons who raped and never got charged for it. many people know about the incidents (plural) but no one will charge because of social stigma on their family. so i tend to think that more are real cases and less are false accusations but then male/female anyone can be the rotten egg.
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Posted 12/11/14

Dubnoman wrote:


ghostwarrior88 wrote:




Gah, I just double checked things...I remember reading something years ago and then I misremembered things.

Not all rapes are violent altercations, that is true. However, what I got all mixed up is that the majority of rapes are not between a person and a stranger, but rather between two people that know each other some how. I was saying that the majority of rapes are not violent altercations, but what the case really is is that the majority of rapes happen between two people who know each other. So yeah, most rapes are either where there is an altercation (the oppressed struggles against the oppressor), or a violent altercation.


Here is a useful link.

http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/commonmyths2.php


What I was trying to tell you, I read before (about non-consensual, but not an altercation). What I read was probably how that happens in some cases of rape, but not the majority of time (like I was saying).


The problem is that nobody seems to have a good set of numbers, and worldwide that's an issue.

What is known is that, yes, the majority of cases are between two people that know each other, and when violence is involved, and, the victim is questions about rape, those are the cases that are most likely to report it. Which is kinda convoluted in the way it's a particular subset, because it's looking at cases of sexual assault specifically and the people who report that, and then where it overlaps with rape, and saying that those people are the most likely to report it as well. This leaves out cases where violence in involved, but not reported (and not rape), and the cases of non-violent rape (both reported and not reported).

Then, if you go back a few pages and read the wording of the surveys, (which are on rape and sexual assault and sexual harassment), as well as the laws on the matter, it just gets incredibly murky, as it includes cases, were, (to paraphrase) "have you had sexual intercourse with someone who has inquired about sex numerous times and have given in?" among others... Now I don't think it's a great thing to have se with a person who basically badgers you, but is that actually worthy of considering rape? Is it as life altering or as "bad" as being forced to have sex with, say your boss in order to keep your job? Is that as bad as violent rape? by giving in, are you not consenting? And so on... )

I think we need to be more precise in our definitions of rape, and remove some of the more questionable areas of these laws... But then, to play devils advocate, if we reign in our definition, will that cause more people to go free because of a technicality?

It feels like the law wants to make it so that having sex with another person requires a contract beforehand, and yet, it's at a complete dissonance with how people act and behave when finding a partner. (again, not the violent or even the nonviolent "THAT'S DEFINITELY RAPE!!" cases...)
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Posted 12/11/14 , edited 12/11/14
Well damn, I randomly found this:
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Posted 12/11/14
As I use to tell my ex-girlfriend...it's not rape if you like it~
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Posted 12/11/14
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