First  Prev  1  2  3  Next  Last
Japan, America, and War
Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/6/14
This coming year it will mark 70 years since the end of World War II, with the Allies defeating the Axis, Adolf Hitler's "suicide", and the end of Imperial Japan. The United States only really entered WWII after the attack on Pearl Harbor, Hawaii in 1941, and had remained relatively out of it before that.

On August 6 and 9th of 1945, the United States dropped two atomic weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing roughly 246,000 people. Japan didn't surrender, as per usual, but on August 15, 1945 officially surrendered.

Suffice to say, 70 years is not that long of a time, and it was only 60 years ago we were releasing propaganda like this


On top of the war effort in Japan, in 1942, FDR signed in action the executive order to "evacuate" and intern anyone of any Japanese ancestry living in the West Coast of the US. For four years, roughly 112.000 Japanese Americans were held in internment camps. In the 80's, over $1 billion in reparations was paid to the ancestors of those held captive, and for the most part, its not discussed much.

Now, 7 decades out, Japan and America are very close allies, and share a lot more in common than we realize. But I find it odd that people don't really think of the relationship in its past, and how both sides wanted nothing more than to decimate each other.

My grandfather fought in the Korean War, and was in Japan for half a decade. From what I know, he really loved the country. I've been exposed to Japanese culture since my first years on earth, and now, two generations later, I'm here, being what I am. This same "diffusion" happened in Japan, and still is happening in a lot of ways.

Japan and America have a rough past, and there are still people on both sides who do not like each other. But, as evident by our being on this site, we have connection now that are helping to subside the horrors of what happened.

But we shouldn't forget.


TL;DR - WWII was a dark blemish in the history of America and Japan, and it's amazing where we're at now.
17394 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / Michigan
Offline
Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/6/14
People need to think about that for a minute. 246,000 lives.

Most young people think of 9/11 as the worst of the worst, approx. 3000 lives. And don't get me wrong it was bad. I know that these are two completely different events. But 246,000 approx. lives. It's to bad things had to go down the way they did. Hope nobody ever has to use a weapon like that on mankind ever again.
9200 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M
Offline
Posted 12/6/14
FDR wasn't wanting to get involved, but he sold supplies to the european allies. Part of the problem with siding in the war was that we had no money, and quite frankly, a lot of the US hated the jewish population we had (as well as the asian population). When Japan attacked (and quite frankly, Italy, Russia, Germany and Japan were all gunning for world conquest), they did so with greatly inferior weaponry, but had some crazy mofo determination and a superiority complex (not too unlike the terrorism the US had faced off against in recent years, although tat was scarier because it didn't have a singular nation behind it. Instead it had an amorphous ideology.... and in the wars of the future I suspect that will be more prevalent).

FDR wasn't the greatest of men, but he knew to listen and had surrounded himself with excellent people (most importantly, he married one of the most incredible women in history) All along the way, it could have turned out differently.. The problems with the east asian nations was the lack of modernization for so very very long. The other benefit was that the projects that were funded to create jobs for the citizens also just made us inadvertently really well equipped for the war.

Afterwards, we (the allies in general) still ruled a lot of the former axis powers with an iron fist to keep them from starting ANOTHER war, but while we occupied them we also built up a lot of that infrastructure. It's hard to hate someone who makes you competitive in the world. Really, the worst hate to come out of it was the cold war with russia and the communist nations. North Korea still LOATHES us, I'm not sure how vietnam feels about us, and the middle east... Well, we HAD to go and set up Israel, didn't we? (mind you, we didn't modernize those areas that still hate us, and they aren't ranked as being very competitive in the global market... unless they have oil reserves)

3058 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Denton, TX
Offline
Posted 12/6/14
You wrote ancestors instead of descendants.

I think it is easy to see why the change happened though. The US got to rebuild Japan (and did a better job of it than the US has done in the Middle East), Japan and US are both suspicious towards China, and the US and Japan are huge trading partners.
9200 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M
Offline
Posted 12/6/14

Fuddbender wrote:

People need to think about that for a minute. 246,000 lives.

Most young people think of 9/11 as the worst of the worst, approx. 3000 lives. And don't get me wrong it was bad. I know that these are two completely different events. But 246,000 approx. lives. It's to bad things had to go down the way they did. Hope nobody ever has to use a weapon like that on mankind ever again.


The reason it was used was because it was figured if it wasn't, it would cost more lives.

And the other hidden cost of not using it might have been that other countries might have gotten a hold of the technology, and then there WOULD have been a nuclear arms race which may have resulted in WWIII and nuclear fallout around the world. Tensions after the war were high, remember, but nobody wanted to touch the weapons after seeing just HOW horrific they were. It was a demonstration on a worldwide scale. Just imagine if the Korean or Vietnam wars were started off with the use of nukes? A war with the former USSR supplying China, North Korea, or Vietnam with nukes?

Some times you need to almost stare a horror in the eyes to realize how horrific it really is.
17394 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / Michigan
Offline
Posted 12/6/14



The reason it was used was because it was figured if it wasn't, it would cost more lives.

.


Exactly. Someone had to do it. And that's the sad part. Somebody had to land a knock out punch. Then came the Cold War. Everybody was on their toes seeing who would make a move.
37144 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/6/14
We did more than just nuke them. Our bombing campaigns were extremely brutal as well. I think the Japanese think about it more than we do in the US. US citizens who lived back then, or soon after the war also probably recognize it as a major part of their lives.
2346 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
46
Offline
Posted 12/6/14
129,000, not 246,000.

Also that's nothing compared to what happened to the poor bastards in Nanking.
26418 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/7/14

AiYumega wrote:

This coming year it will mark 60 years since the end of World War II, with the Allies defeating the Axis, Adolf Hitler's "suicide", and the end of Imperial Japan. The United States only really entered WWII after the attack on Pearl Harbor, Hawaii in 1941, and had remained relatively out of it before that.

On August 6 and 9th of 1945, the United States dropped two atomic weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing roughly 246,000 people. Japan didn't surrender, as per usual, but on August 15, 1945 officially surrendered.

Suffice to say, 60 years is not that long of a time, and it was only 60 years ago we were releasing propaganda like this


On top of the war effort in Japan, in 1942, FDR signed in action the executive order to "evacuate" and intern anyone of any Japanese ancestry living in the West Coast of the US. For four years, roughly 112.000 Japanese Americans were held in internment camps. In the 80's, over $1 billion in reparations was paid to the ancestors of those held captive, and for the most part, its not discussed much.

Now, 6 decades out, Japan and America are very close allies, and share a lot more in common than we realize. But I find it odd that people don't really think of the relationship in its past, and how both sides wanted nothing more than to decimate each other.

My grandfather fought in the Korean War, and was in Japan for half a decade. From what I know, he really loved the country. I've been exposed to Japanese culture since my first years on earth, and now, two generations later, I'm here, being what I am. This same "diffusion" happened in Japan, and still is happening in a lot of ways.

Japan and America have a rough past, and there are still people on both sides who do not like each other. But, as evident by our being on this site, we have connection now that are helping to subside the horrors of what happened.

But we shouldn't forget.


TL;DR - WWII was a dark blemish in the history of America and Japan, and it's amazing where we're at now.


I cant help but notice you only included US actions. I don't consider the firebombing of Tokyo and the Atomic bombs as crimes. We wanted to end the war, there was no other reason. If Japan had surrendered before the bomb was ready it would not have been used. We even warned them we had the bomb.

No mention of the brutality the Japanese showed to civilians and POWs, What about the Rape of Nanking? The Bataan Death March? Beheading POWs en mass? Those and so many more unconscionable actions by her Army and Navy enraged the US and the rest of Asia.

Yes, we apologized and paid reparations to our citizens, those we wronged when we interred them. What about the "comfort women"? Japan still denies and minimizes her wrong doings to this day. The term comfort women is offensive. They were sex slaves taken from their houses. Tens of thousands, maybe more. Japan has yet to formally apologize or pay reparations to them.

Japan itself has yet to really accept what she did as Germany did. Germany went through a lot of soul-searching that Japan has avoided.

The ascension of the right wing in Japan is troubling, as they are among the most vocal deniers of any misdeeds done by Japan in WWII.

I hope that we can continue to be the closest of allies, as we have been, but Japan needs to truly own up to her history.
26418 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/6/14
sorry for duplicate post..
9200 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M
Offline
Posted 12/6/14

kinga750 wrote:

We did more than just nuke them. Our bombing campaigns were extremely brutal as well. I think the Japanese think about it more than we do in the US. US citizens who lived back then, or soon after the war also probably recognize it as a major part of their lives.


True but I remember in my first response saying they were absolutely DETERMINED to win. Our regular bombing methods were not doing much to break their strong will.
28082 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / Colorado
Offline
Posted 12/6/14
First of all, it will be 70 years. The 60th anniversary would have been in 2005.

The spirit of cooperation is heartening. Unfortunately there has also been serious foreign relation nightmares with Japans neighbors. There was no imposition of reconciliation in Asia by the US as it had done in Germany. Despite decades of apology diplomacy, the conservative politicians always undermine any well-intentioned statement with the same BS they have been using for years. That makes it hard for even a sincere apology to be taken as such when crap like that happens.

There is also still a sense of Japanese victimization by the Atomic bombings and Firebombings. They don't realize that for nothing islands like Tarawa the Army was taking 97% causality rates. Something like that is unheard of in modern history. That alone justifies the atomic bombings. The firebombings is a different matter.

Basically, there is always room for improvement. Especially in Japans relations with its neighbors. If you want an excellent book on Post-WWII Historical memory in Asia and Europe then read Confronting Memories of World War II. Very insightful.

http://www.amazon.com/Confronting-Memories-World-War-International/dp/0295993464/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417904228&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=WWII+Chirot
Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/7/14



I cant help but notice you only included US actions. I don't consider the firebombing of Tokyo and the Atomic bombs as crimes. We wanted to end the war, there was no other reason. If Japan had surrendered before the bomb was ready it would not have been used. We even warned them we had the bomb.

No mention of the brutality the Japanese showed to civilians and POWs, What about the Rape of Nanking? The Bataan Death March? Beheading POWs en mass? Those and so many more unconscionable actions by her Army and Navy enraged the US and the rest of Asia.

Yes, we apologized and paid reparations to our citizens, those we wronged when we interred them. What about the "comfort women"? Japan still denies and minimizes her wrong doings to this day. The term comfort women is offensive. They were sex slaves taken from their houses. Tens of thousands, maybe more. Japan has yet to formally apologize or pay reparations to them.

Japan itself has yet to really accept what she did as Germany did. Germany went through a lot of soul-searching that Japan has avoided.

The ascension of the right wing in Japan is troubling, as they are among the most vocal deniers of any misdeeds done by Japan in WWII.

I hope that we can continue to be the closest of allies, as we have been, but Japan needs to truly own up to her history.


No you're right, and it was bad on both sides. Comfort women is a touchy subject, because Japan did do that and it was brutal. And, obviously, they attacked us first. Emperor Hirohoto was not a good person.
17761 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / M / outer wall, level...
Offline
Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/6/14
5lets try this a third time. cr does lieke to load......

probly best japan got nuked. an invasion would have destroyed the japanese race, and the military would not have stopped fighting untill there was nothing or no one left.

look at the cilival suicide in siapan. or the hold out IJA still fighting in '5
17761 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / M / outer wall, level...
Offline
Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/6/14
lets try this a fourth time. cr does lieke to load......

probly best japan got nuked. an invasion would have destroyed the japanese race, and the military would not have stopped fighting untill there was nothing or no one left.

look at the cilival suicide in siapan. or the hold out IJA still fighting in '55
First  Prev  1  2  3  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.