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Japan, America, and War
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Posted 12/7/14
There are winner in this war which is mainly the US their economy was blooming due to the war and they haven't been attack mainland after they declare war.
Posted 12/7/14

CarpetGunner wrote:

My father took a trip to Japan while he was stationed in Korea in 1970. While he was there he had the opportunity to speak with local college students who wanted to brush up on their English. They were very eager to talk with him as it was apparently their first time conversing with an American. They showed him around their campus and took him out for lunch. He eventually asked them how they could be so friendly with someone from a country that nuked them not once but twice. The response he got from these kids surprised him. At the height of Imperial Japans power the emperor was considered a god and it was the national duty to stay the course no matter the consequence even if it meant annihilation. The students said that if it were not for the nukes a full scale land invasion by the Americans was inevitable potentially costing far more lives on both sides. It would have devastated the mainland. Their logic stated that with the sacrifice of two cities a nation was saved by doing so. Interesting perspective.


izaya would not have approved




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Posted 12/7/14 , edited 12/7/14

CarpetGunner wrote:

My father took a trip to Japan while he was stationed in Korea in 1970. While he was there he had the opportunity to speak with local college students who wanted to brush up on their English. They were very eager to talk with him as it was apparently their first time conversing with an American. They showed him around their campus and took him out for lunch. He eventually asked them how they could be so friendly with someone from a country that nuked them not once but twice. The response he got from these kids surprised him. At the height of Imperial Japans power the emperor was considered a god and it was the national duty to stay the course no matter the consequence even if it meant annihilation. The students said that if it were not for the nukes a full scale land invasion by the Americans was inevitable potentially costing far more lives on both sides. It would have devastated the mainland. Their logic stated that with the sacrifice of two cities a nation was saved by doing so. Interesting perspective.


It is interesting, but it should also be noted that these children grew up in either occupied Japan or just-post occupation.

Like Harjot said, Military officials in the US *strongly* believed the nuke was 100% unnecessary. And even history shows this to be true: Japan ASKED for surrender, but with a few caveats: one being the guarantee of protection to the emperor. America said "No". Two nukes and a few weeks later and... the surrender treaty was signed, pretty much unchanged.

Something else of note that may speak of the mentality of USA officials: The United States criticized Britain's carpet bombing of Germany as slaughter of innocent civilians at no military benefit- arguing instead for precision bombing of tactical targets. But in the Pacific war, it was Carpet bombing by Incendiary(much worse since 1) fire spreads death and destruction better than vanilla bombs and 2) Japans' houses were pretty much 100% wood), not tactical precision strikes, that were the norm. These attacks killed and disowned MANY times more people than the nukes ever could.

In modern history it makes sense to paint such atrocities as "Necessary"... it isn't a good tag to have otherwise after all. And since Japan was under US occupation for years, was re-constructed by the US and organizationally re-structured by the US(based off the US government structure) it makes sense that they would be taught the same "Truth" US kids are about the Nukes.

And that kind of political pressure remains hung over the nation as a whole. After all, it has been shown especially in recent years that Japanese people and officials having opinions that go against the 'accepted' history of the region and WWII often causes people to not like Japan as a whole so much...
Posted 12/7/14 , edited 12/8/14
Oh, say! can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming;
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there:
Oh, say! does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In fully glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh, long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution!
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Oh, thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Bless with victory and peace, may the heav'rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust":
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
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Posted 12/8/14 , edited 12/8/14

rounin4life wrote:


CarpetGunner wrote:

My father took a trip to Japan while he was stationed in Korea in 1970. While he was there he had the opportunity to speak with local college students who wanted to brush up on their English. They were very eager to talk with him as it was apparently their first time conversing with an American. They showed him around their campus and took him out for lunch. He eventually asked them how they could be so friendly with someone from a country that nuked them not once but twice. The response he got from these kids surprised him. At the height of Imperial Japans power the emperor was considered a god and it was the national duty to stay the course no matter the consequence even if it meant annihilation. The students said that if it were not for the nukes a full scale land invasion by the Americans was inevitable potentially costing far more lives on both sides. It would have devastated the mainland. Their logic stated that with the sacrifice of two cities a nation was saved by doing so. Interesting perspective.


It is interesting, but it should also be noted that these children grew up in either occupied Japan or just-post occupation.

Like Harjot said, Military officials in the US *strongly* believed the nuke was 100% unnecessary. And even history shows this to be true: Japan ASKED for surrender, but with a few caveats: one being the guarantee of protection to the emperor. America said "No". Two nukes and a few weeks later and... the surrender treaty was signed, pretty much unchanged.

Something else of note that may speak of the mentality of USA officials: The United States criticized Britain's carpet bombing of Germany as slaughter of innocent civilians at no military benefit- arguing instead for precision bombing of tactical targets. But in the Pacific war, it was Carpet bombing by Incendiary(much worse since 1) fire spreads death and destruction better than vanilla bombs and 2) Japans' houses were pretty much 100% wood), not tactical precision strikes, that were the norm. These attacks killed and disowned MANY times more people than the nukes ever could.

In modern history it makes sense to paint such atrocities as "Necessary"... it isn't a good tag to have otherwise after all. And since Japan was under US occupation for years, was re-constructed by the US and organizationally re-structured by the US(based off the US government structure) it makes sense that they would be taught the same "Truth" US kids are about the Nukes.

And that kind of political pressure remains hung over the nation as a whole. After all, it has been shown especially in recent years that Japanese people and officials having opinions that go against the 'accepted' history of the region and WWII often causes people to not like Japan as a whole so much...


I have made this point in a previous thread, but will do so again here: the Japanese surrender was unconditional, but Japan's leadership fared much better than did Germany's after the German unconditional surrender. The reason is that, while Eisenhower hated the Nazi regime and blamed the German people for allowing Naziism's rise, MacArthur actually admired classical Eastern culture in general, particularly Japan's. MacArthur made certain that the Emperor was unharmed and unmolested and demanded that shrines were treated with respect. Although a new constitutional government was installed, Japan was not subject to division between the Allies (China having a very good wartime claim for such), nor were there the equivalent of Nuremberg-type trials for Japanese officials. One of the most lasting effects of the American occupation and related reorganization of certain aspects of Japanese society was the redistribution of land ownership. This was done to dissipate the wealth and potential power of the land-owning class. Interestingly enough, similar changes were enforced in the Philippines, against a people who then lived under the US flag and fought and died on their own soil against Japanese invaders.

So, while both Japan and Germany were initially rebuilt after WW2 by US investment, Japan was treated in a much friendlier manner politically. Our Filipino allies, meanwhile, were first used to fight Japanese aggression; then sacrificed to slow Japanese expansion; punished for being on the winning side; and, finally, saw their veterans denied promised US citizenship as the Philippines ended roughly 400 years of colonial subjugation. Personally speaking, I know that such US citizenship and the accompanying military pension and access to medical benefits would have greatly helped my father-in-law and mother-in-law as they aged. I have been to both the Philippines and Japan, and love both places. But there is no denying that--however horrible the bombings, atomic and incendiary, or unfair (and even potentially illegal) the US wartime interment of people of Japanese ancestry--Japan did not suffer the same sense of applied wrath from the US at war's end as did the European Axis powers.
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Posted 12/8/14
I'm half Japanese and half white (Irish/German/Swedish). My grandfather on my Mom's side helped save people from the Pearl Harbor attack. He died before I was born so any details I heard were from my mom. She keeps some sort of badge or medal he earned for his efforts that day. My Great Grandfather on my dad's side helped save people in Hiroshima after it was bombed. He died ten years later due to radiation. My grandfather or Ji-chan, who was very young at the time, actually beat up American soldiers because he was so upset at the loss of his father. Later after he and my Ba-chan moved to America and my Dad and Uncle were born, he admitted to regretting his behavior against the American soldiers. After moving to America, my Ji-chan dropped Kendo and all Martial Arts he knew and started what I'd like to call a baseball lineage in our family. Since then, every male in the Haruta family played baseball. The ability to play baseball in my family is like the ability to use a katana to samurai. All the older members of my family were disappointed when they found out I quit, but I injured my shoulder and it never really got better so I had no choice. Sorry for the family story. I've always wanted to share it with someone since I find it astonishing that I may not exist if WWII never happened.
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Posted 12/8/14

harutoharuta wrote:

I'm half Japanese and half white (Irish/German/Swedish). My grandfather on my Mom's side helped save people from the Pearl Harbor attack. He died before I was born so any details I heard were from my mom. She keeps some sort of badge or medal he earned for his efforts that day. My Great Grandfather on my dad's side helped save people in Hiroshima after it was bombed. He died ten years later due to radiation. My grandfather or Ji-chan, who was very young at the time, actually beat up American soldiers because he was so upset at the loss of his father. Later after he and my Ba-chan moved to America and my Dad and Uncle were born, he admitted to regretting his behavior against the American soldiers. After moving to America, my Ji-chan dropped Kendo and all Martial Arts he knew and started what I'd like to call a baseball lineage in our family. Since then, every male in the Haruta family played baseball. The ability to play baseball in my family is like the ability to use a katana to samurai. All the older members of my family were disappointed when they found out I quit, but I injured my shoulder and it never really got better so I had no choice. Sorry for the family story. I've always wanted to share it with someone since I find it astonishing that I may not exist if WWII never happened.



This is one of the best kinds of stories really. I for one thank you for sharing it.
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Posted 12/8/14
You're welcome! Thank you for taking the time to read it x3
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Posted 12/8/14 , edited 12/8/14
The military occupation afterward helped ties since we rebuilt japan and also made their government to be like ours.
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Posted 12/8/14
My Hero was a young US Army Air Force Bomber Pilot, as a Lieutenant stationed at Hickam Field. He and his newlywed wife woke that Sunday to the sounds of Pearl Harbor Attack. He and his next door neighbor drove into together from housing area to the field proper getting holes from stray rounds in their shared ride, "Holes in the Oldsmobile." He rose to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel (bvt) during the War and later retired a "bird" Colonel from the USAF after being offered a promotion to Flag Rank and new assignment that would of moved him away from being with his high school age sons before they left for the US Service Academies in a couple of years.

He was the picture of the Military Officer that I wanted to be, He helped me with my goals. I never heard him say a bad thing about the Japanese People or their ability at war. He was a dedicated officer with a Silver Star awarded for valor in leading his B17 Aircraft and his Squadron against Imperial Japanese forces. The type of human who is easy to admire and never boastful but proud of those he led, in war or peace. He was one of us "common" Americans who fought for us starting that December Day.
Posted 12/8/14 , edited 12/8/14
Everyone always talks about the atom bombs (which I don't like either, but given that Japan refused to surrender even until the Soviet Union stepped in and declared war on them after the second bomb was dropped...) anyway....

People always fail to remember that Japan (Japanese army that is) killed over 10 million across Asia - some even go so high as to say 20 million in the most cruel of ways that even their ally, Germany, was absolutely horrified...

As for the firebombing (which again, like the Allied bombing of Dresden for example is unfortunate but sadly a part of war where innocent people get killed), Japan was actually the first country in Asia to firebomb thousands of others...But you won't catch Japan mentioning that fact!

Again though, the American military occupation of Japan was for the most part great. It helped Japan modernize more, and opened them up to the West (resulting in an interesting newer culture of Western/Japanese ideals). Music, entertainment, culture, society really took a modern turn and Japan was ready to face a new era. And then came the shared love of baseball as well.

Anyway, it is good that people have moved on for the most part and there is communication between countries, and many friendships.
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Posted 12/8/14
I like Anime, how about you all? ;-)
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Posted 12/8/14 , edited 12/8/14

masked185 wrote:

I like Anime, how about you all? ;-)


Love it! Kinda fond of sushi and tempura, also. . .
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Posted 12/8/14

moonhawk81 wrote:


masked185 wrote:

I like Anime, how about you all? ;-)


Love it! Kinda fond of sushi and tempura, also. . .


Good man
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