First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  Next  Last
Post Reply 冊のパーフェクト漢字教室
先生
5475 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / F
Online
Posted 12/27/14
You're welcome! I'm so looking forward to your worksheets senpai!!!! わ〜い!2525
先輩(Moderator)
1245 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Poland
Offline
Posted 12/28/14 , edited 12/29/14
LESSON 7 - 第7課

こんにちはぁ、皆さん!一週間かかって申し訳ありません (シ. .)シ

Sorry it took so long but it's here at last: the 7th lesson, which means actual kanji.

Truth be told, this lesson and the following ones aren't going to be as detailed as the first six, I presume. Unless I am to explain grammar behind sentence examples which are present in the sheets below (a bad idea, tbh ( ̄  ̄|||) )、I think there's nothing else to be said about the individual characters . All info should be there - if there isn't, do point it out. Ask me if there's something you need to know about either the kanji or the words (where they can be used and where they shouldn't). Inform me whether there are mistakes - I've already found one while skimming through the sheets. The reason I ask you this is simply because I want to make these lessons (and my materials) useful and easy to comprehend. Basing on your feedback and suggestions, I will keep making various improvements for your convenience.


Oh, shut up, Cirno.

As a small foreword, I might have mentioned at some point just how many kanji there are or how many there are currently in use. Or maybe not. Anyway, according to sources there are about 50,000 Japanese kanji characters in total, a huge chunk of which is most probably hardly ever used and unknown to your average native speaker of Japanese. Such person's knowledge of kanji is probably limited to about a few thousand (like 5, maybe 6?; some say it varies between 2,000 and 10,000). A considerable part of these are the so-called jōyō kanji (常用漢字; "regular-use kanji"), taught throughout primary and secondary school in Japan. Currently it comprises 2,136 characters: 1,006 of them are taught in primary school (kyōiku kanji - 教育漢字; "educational kanji") and the 1,130 additional ones in secondary school.

The first kanji I'm about to make you get friendly with are, quite obviously, those from kyōiku kanji. If you take a look at the list of these characters here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%8Diku_kanji; you'll see that the first dozen is concerned with numbers, and that's what I'm going to do as well. My teacher did so, and yours (if you have one) probably did so as well. As for the further ones, I have my doubts and concerns. I'll most probably need to consult a couple of webpages/blogs before I decide on the one and only "programme" of teaching. And if that doesn't work, I'll stick to these, they seem like a "safe" option.

Today I give you numbers from 1-3. More will be on the way, it's just that... You know, Christmas has just ended and there's New Year to celebrate in a few days' time. So it's hard to get a move on, kind of ._. Anyway, here you go:

#1 http://1drv.ms/1t97WLN
#2 http://1drv.ms/1xZ5L4c
#3 http://1drv.ms/1wuBJi0

The reason I give you links instead of pics is that Crunchyroll doesn't allow very high resolutions and it would make it difficult for you if you wanted to zoom in to get a closer look at some example and all you would get would be a blot of pixels, probably.

Once again, feel free to comment and ask if there's a problem or whatever. I'll try to upload a new sheet on a daily basis (let's hope it works). Provided that my inner strength won't fail me, we might just get through basic numerals (1-10, or even all the way to 10000) before January :D

おつかれさまでした~ン!
先生
5475 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / F
Online
Posted 12/28/14
オツカレサマデシタ、せんぱい!

You really are amazing, you know that!!! It's late here so I will study your worksheets tomorrow. Anyways, I'm gathering them in the "pages" section of our group, just in case anyone wants to quickly reference them. I know the image quality of your worksheets in the pages section is low, but I really want to group all your sheets together! And if you want to make a random page (maybe a rules page?) or whatever you like, please do! I never really understood the point of having "pages" in groups but now I think "pages" is awesome!

I can only read half of the bubbles Cirno is saying since I'm really bad at kanji, because as I always say--I'm just a beginner If you edit pictures and add the Japanese text, cane please please add furigana too senpai? All that I can read in this mini comic is Cirno saying "What is Kanji. It's difficult". Am I correct about that? I'm way better at reading Spanish than Japanese ethos point in my life

And senpai, I'll let you know if I find any mistakes or if I have any questions about your worksheets tomorrow, when I check them out!

おやすみなさい〜
先輩(Moderator)
1245 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Poland
Offline
Posted 12/29/14
Thank you (*´▽`*) Good to know that you like it so far.

Oh, and the pages section is actually great! I'll make sure to put the next kanji sheets there as well!

And yeah, I think I forgot about furigana over there (or it was because I wasn't sure whether the resolution/size of the picture is big enough for you to see it). Imma fix it in a minute And yes, you're right about these two speech bubbles, that's pretty much what they mean.

Thanks again, 先生, take care!
先生
5475 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / F
Online
Posted 12/29/14
Thank you so much for adding the furigana to the picture! And I've read all three of your worksheets and they're really amazing~ I want to say, thank you for writing simple sentences even a beginner like me can understand! Also, I have a question: I know milk is written as 牛乳 but I've also seen it written as ミルク. So my question is, senpai, when would you use 牛乳 and when would you use ミルク ? Does my question make sense? I love it how you used 一番 as an example!フフ〜 :)

Also, it's great you added informal sentences as well! Maybe you should bolden the sample words and sample sentences (not the furigana, just the first line to make it stand out!) And I've been thinking about the way you should present the kanji and I think the best way would be according to grade level, starting with the easiest kanji. But it's really up to you senpai
漢和名手
60485 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
46 / M / Bay Area, CA, USA
Offline
Posted 12/29/14
This is not intended as an all-inclusive answer, but in some manga, I've occasionally seen kanji (e.g. for gyuunyuu-- sorry, at work, can display but can't type Japanese here) written, but with furigana on the side for an alternate pronounciation (e.g. miruku, often in katakana but not always). These alternate pronounciations can be very non-standard-- particularly when the manga character is speaking perhaps some foreign word or maybe dialect or slang. The kanji may be written so the reader has a sense of at least the meaning of what the character is saying.
先輩(Moderator)
1245 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Poland
Offline
Posted 12/29/14
Most of the examples are drawn from a webpage called Tatoeba (link here: http://tatoeba.org/eng/home), which is a database of various sentences from many languages; only when I can't find a suitable example I have to make one up. Good thing they're not too hard :)

As for 牛乳・ミルク, I don't think there's a rule here. 牛乳 is, obviously, a native word, while ミルク is a borrowing. I think it's up to one's preference which one to choose - but again, I can't tell you that with 100% certainty.

Referring to sushipathさん's post: in a manga I'm currently reading (World Trigger) there are actually lots of kanji with "non-standard" furigana, mostly English versions of the word. For example, 二重 would have a furigana of ダブル, 地下堂 would be シェルター, 門 would be ゲート and 近界民 would be ネイバー. I think it is as you say - either a dialect, slang or maybe even a lingo, with the kanji hinting at the meaning.

Anyway, here's the kanji sheet for today:

#4 http://1drv.ms/1D30XcY

Whether my plan of completing the first ten kanji before 1st Jan is going to work is still subject to various factors, the most important ones being my laziness and my Steam game library which needs constant care and attention (ᵔ.ᵔ)

Have a good day/night, depending on your time zones.
( ̄▽ ̄)ノ
先生
5475 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / F
Online
Posted 12/29/14
Thank you Sushi-san and senpai for answering my question! Which word do you guys prefer to use: 牛乳 or ミルク? I seem to see ミルク used more on products. And when I read manga, I always see alternate furigana used alongside Kanji!

Senpai: Thank you so much for uploading the worksheet! I can't wait until we get past the numbers on to more complex kanji! Also does anyone know when someone would use the skinny katakana letters? I have the skinny katakana keyboard, for example: カタカナ but I don't understand its purpose..like why would someone need to write condensed katakana?

Also, remember how I said that one kanji stroke can make a huge difference in its meaning? I found this example from a manga I'm reading to to be humorous, so I decided to share it with you all!

おやすみなさいみんなさん〜
先輩(Moderator)
1245 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Poland
Offline
Posted 12/30/14
おっす~

Here are another two sheets for you:

#5 http://1drv.ms/1B1fCGf
#6 http://1drv.ms/1D3OUw4

A minor change was introduced in sheet number 6, namely that furigana will from now on be placed above the words/sentences it's supposed to describe. The reason for that decision was that the space previously meant for furigana and translation was not enough if we're dealing with long words or words that demand some more thorough explanation (at least two such examples appeared in the aforementioned sheet). I hope you will find the changes positive.

Back to "milk" question: I don't really use the word "milk" too often, but I think I would lean more towards the native variant. Japanese language has so many borrowings from English (and others) that it's almost scary (((><))) And I think it's pointless to use a loanword while there exists a native variant for it.

Yes, I've seen the option to write katakana in such a way, too. Apparently (according to this website, for instance: http://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/half-width-katakana.html) it was designed so that early computers could display text in Japanese. As Wikipedia says, it was something about Latin characters being based on a rectangle shape while the Japanese characters are based on a square. Contemporary uses of half-width katakana are described in the link as well, go and check it out if you want to.

And yeah, it's every Japanese student's nightmare - Kanji, that is. If you're not careful, you might end up with something far worse than just 犬好き :D

また会おう~

漢和名手
60485 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
46 / M / Bay Area, CA, USA
Offline
Posted 12/30/14
Site was down most of the day, apparently due to a DDoS attack. ANN even had a blurb about it.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I'd probably use 牛乳 pronounced as ぎゅうにゅう most often, but that's coming from being a foreign Japanese language learner and thus trying to use "definitively" Japanese words whenever possible for the sake of practice.

I put "definitively" in quotes as, as mentioned, Japanese has tons of borrowed words from English, but, per my textbooks, these words, though clearly borrowed (e.g. パソコン for computer), are nonetheless in fact bona fide official Japanese words.

An important or at least potentially interesting question, the answer to which I've frankly no idea(!), is how often actual native Japanese language users use either ぎゅうにゅう versus ミルク, and in what contexts, assuming any particular distinction is actually or consistently made.
先輩(Moderator)
1245 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Poland
Offline
Posted 12/31/14 , edited 12/31/14
Yeah, I know -_- Just what sort of business do hackers have with CR to launch a cyber-attack like this?

Anyway, I've tried checking for both for "milk" in question in two Japanese word frequency lists I could find and in both cases (though there was a really tiny difference in one of them) 牛乳 appears more often than ミルク. Again, I guess it goes only for newspapers and written Japanese in general - and we've no other way of answering our question but to conduct a survey among the native Japanese. But that's more than problematic, I'd say.

Yes, I'm perfectly aware of just how many borrowing there are in contemporary Japanese - many of them, however (like パソコン) have no equivalents in the native lexicon so they are borrowed. It can go for any language - in Polish, for instance, we have words like "komputer", "kalkulator" or "smartfon" (I think it's not hard to figure their origin). In a situation like this, the word becomes an inseparable part of a language. But the case of "milk" is somewhat different and I really don't get why would the Japanese use ミルク instead of 牛乳. I really wish there was someone who could explain the context of these as it's now bothering me (# ̄0 ̄)

Now, I've another sheet for you:

#7 http://1drv.ms/1wAfFm8

You might be asking about the "radical" box in the last 3 sheets, namely why I put two radicals over there at once. The answer is: I'm not certain. I've been checking various kanji dictionaries - those in the Web and the one on my PC - and all I received was contradictory information in 1:1 ratio. Because of that, I decided to put both radicals in the box to avoid making a grave mistake. I wonder whether there's just one correct answer, huh.

Oh, and if you're freaked out by some of the examples given (like 五大, for instance), then don't worry - the only reason I put them in the sheet was because I couldn't find better ones. Stuff like 五時、五日、五月 are, no doubt, 100x more useful than that but I decided to cover them in a separate sheet. Once we deal with all the kanji for numbers and dates, I'll list every single day of the month, months themselves, minutes, hours, etc.

Okay, I guess that's all for now. All that remains is to wish you a Happy New Year! May all our wishes be granted and let this incoming year be fruitful. Don't give up on learning, too :D

Let me just post this since it's kinda relevant.

先生
5475 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / F
Online
Posted 12/31/14 , edited 12/31/14
I can't believe hackers would target Crunchyroll. It still seems like Crunchyroll isn't completely fixed I was trying to watch some anime on my Samsung TV Crunchyroll app, but it said it couldn't load the videos or something and right now it seems like I can't view some forum pictures either I just hope it all gets fixed soon!

Anyway, senpai, I never knew that about the half-width katakana. It must be kinda hard for Japanese language speakers to read half width hiragana subtitles and try to keep up with the plot of whatever they're watching! Also, sushi-san and senpai: I know, i also don't understand when a native Japanese speaker would use ミルク instead of 牛乳. I wish we had a native speaker in our club to help us out here! It's an important vocab word seeing how people often drink milk (I instead prefer soy milk!)

I have a question senpai. In one of your previous posts you wrote おっす. I know it's a masculine way of saying hello (At least, that's what I read). Like how it's a contraction of はようございま. My question is, is there ever a time when it's acceptable for female speakers to use おっす? Also, I know that お前、俺、君 are all masculine pronouns but is there ever an appropriate time for female speakers to use those words? I know I've asked this question before in the language help thread but I'd love to hear your thoughts and maybe Sushi-san's thoughts on this

And I love it how Japanese borrowed so many words for English, it makes it easier remember those words! As senpai mentioned about Polish, Spanish also has many loan words from English. Like computadora, calculadora, teléfono inteligente (literally "intelligent phone" but means "Smart phone"). Thank you so much for your kanji sheets senpai--tomorrow's a busy day for me so I'll go over them as soon as I can and tell you if I have any questions about them! Thank you so much for all your dedication and a very Happy New Year to both of you: sushi-sn and senpai and to everyone in this group! I hope everyone has a year filled with happiness and new beginnings! Also, I hope we learn so much from each other in the upcoming year Thanks for being such amazing members--you guys make me really happy!
漢和名手
60485 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
46 / M / Bay Area, CA, USA
Offline
Posted 12/31/14
While I've learned some sense of it from my language studies or watching anime or reading manga, I'm definitely no expert on the subtleties of the Japanese language, particularly when it comes to social order, degrees of politeness, and such--language concepts that really don't exist much at all in American English, nor really in American culture. This would be something to ask your Japanese teacher, assuming he or she is a native.

(Incidentally, when I first took Mandarin Chinese in college, my first year teacher was actually a white woman, an American who had lived for a while in Taiwan, even married a native Taiwanese as I recall her saying, and then came back to the States. Subsequent teachers, though, were native Chinese who could better answer questions about the finer details of the language that more advanced students might ask.)

I do recall in some manga female characters using forms like おっす or ちっす, but it doesn't seem common. It seems very casual and familiar-- probably something used only between good friends of similar age. Might be a bit masculine too-- if you're a delicate or お嬢様 type, it's perhaps not fitting with one's character or style! I'm pretty sure I've seen/heard 君 used by either men or women, and it can refer to either a man or woman. It is a step down from あなた and more familiar, as you know. It seems particularly for a woman to address a man as 君, a sense of familiarity or social equality (or that the woman is superior in status to the man) would need to be established first. おまえ is even more rough/familiar-- it's almost like talking down to someone. While more often used by men, I've also seen/heard on occasion おまえ used by women, and it can refer to either a man or a woman. I've almost never seen 俺 used by a woman/girl, but not absolutely never. I recall vaguely that I've seen it used when the woman is either mimicking a man, or she's speaking from a position of dominance and really trying to communicate she's going to take action and really take care of business, and so everyone better watch out!

明けましておめでとう!
先輩(Moderator)
1245 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Poland
Offline
Posted 1/1/15
Posting another sheet:

#8 http://1drv.ms/13Xn4pe

I won't contribute much to the discussion about masculine/feminine words but from what I've read in the post above, I think you are right about these, sushipathさん.

I hope you're all enjoying the New Year! I am, that's for sure, but I feel like all my New Year's resolutions are gradually fading away QAQ The laziest day I had in weeks, seriously.
先生
5475 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / F
Online
Posted 1/1/15
本当にありがとうございまする寿司さん!I think it's really important to learn about the subtleties of Japanese, but such knowledge is something that comes with exposure to the language and continued studies. As a side note, I wonder how Japanese students feel about learning English, seeing how we don't have social order or polite speech in English (In Spanish we only have a polite word to refer to "you" but that's about it!)

Sushi-san, now that you mention Mandarin, I'm thinking about taking a beginner's Mandarin class in February, and I have absolutely no background knowledge of Mandarin, so as someone who formerly studied Mandarin, do you have any advice for me to prepare so I can at least enter into the class with some knowledge, so I won't be totally lost on the first day of class?

I heard a woman refer to a man as 君 in anime before, but I never knew that it meant that she was higher social status than the male, thanks for the explanation, it really helps so much Sushi-san! Also, I seem to hear guys say おまえ so much in anime, sometimes I see it used between friends who are familiar with each other, and I've also seen men address females as おまえ. So is it safe to assume that males can use おまえ with their close friends (and that it's sometimes not used to look down on others)?

Senpai: I've finally caught up on your kanji sheets! Yay~ The only suggestion I have to make your sheets a little neater is that you should only add the furigana above the kanji? It's up to you though Also, I have two questions: when would you ever use 六花 instead of "yuki" to mean snow? I've never heard of "rokka" but I'm glad to learn new things from you! Amy second question: Is it true that there are yakuza in Roppongi, as it says in the last sentence? I'm just curious as I love reading gangster/yakuza manga like "Black Lagoon"!
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.