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Japan, Anime and Homophobia
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Posted 12/9/14 , edited 12/9/14

narfington wrote:


perrandy wrote:

]and several states voted agaisnt it and were overuled by the supreme court,get real dude.dont tell me that you will find ok to see kids watching gay parades were people ARE on the street doing sexual acts to each other in public



The supreme court only overturned the amendments to the state constitutions that banned the marriage of homosexual couples. That doesn't mean that they made it legal in those states. I live in Texas, and I can say for certain it's not legal here. And besides, state constitutions can't contradict the US constitution, and the Supreme Court gets to say what is and isn't constitutional.

And I don't think actual sex acts take place at the pride parades...at least not in public. And honestly I don't care when kids learn about the existence of sex. They're gonna have to learn eventually. Anyway, it's been fun but I'm done with this conversation, got shit to do.
either way the supreme court were agaisnt the will of the people that wanted none of this and where in the constitution says that homosexual marriages are allowed since that was written more than 200 years ago and i can assure you that homosexuality was deeply frowned upon by society to the point of incarceration and even death in extreme circumstances

btw, if you are ok that should be ok for a kid watching two men fella ting each other in public that you are right there is nothing much to talk about here.

Posted 12/9/14 , edited 12/9/14

jehester wrote:

Why do you think that one thing is "progressive" anyway? New York also allows marriage between first cousins.



Gay marriage is progressive in that it's ONE of the last strides we have to make as a society for equality.

And my first cousin isn't my type. Sorry.
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Posted 12/9/14 , edited 12/9/14

perrandy wrote:

if thats so then why the regular homosexuals dont call them out? ah because thats right sexual promiscuity and jumping from flower to flower is part of the homosexual lifestyle (although i know that there are few that are monogamus but if the total homosexual population is 2 percent just imagine how low sexual monogamy is and the CDC data backs that up)




I've got news for you, an awful lot of straight people in America and western societies go around having promiscuous sex. An awful lot of straight men and women in America are all about meeting people at bars and clubs and having sex with people they hardly know and having one night stands and so forth.

And you know what? A lot of gay men and women are monogamous. There are a lot of them who do not have multiple partners at once.
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Posted 12/9/14

AiYumega wrote:


jehester wrote:

Why do you think that one thing is "progressive" anyway? New York also allows marriage between first cousins.



Gay marriage is progressive in that it's ONE of the last strides we have to make as a society for equality.

And my first cousin isn't my type. Sorry.


No, getting the government completely OUT of the marriage business is the best thing we could do for society.
Posted 12/9/14

jehester wrote:


AiYumega wrote:


jehester wrote:

Why do you think that one thing is "progressive" anyway? New York also allows marriage between first cousins.



Gay marriage is progressive in that it's ONE of the last strides we have to make as a society for equality.

And my first cousin isn't my type. Sorry.


No, getting the government completely OUT of the marriage business is the best thing we could do for society.


I agree with you on that, but before we do that laws need to be passed, and to do that you need the government.
Posted 12/9/14

perrandy wrote:

either way the supreme court were agaisnt the will of the people that wanted none of this and where in the constitution says that homosexual marriages are allowed since that was written more than 200 years ago and i can assure you that homosexuality was deeply frowned upon by society to the point of incarceration and even death in extreme circumstances



The Supreme Court has determined marriage as a fundamental right under the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment (See Loving v. Virginia in 1967)
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Posted 12/9/14

Dubnoman wrote:


Why I think acceptance and tolerance of LGBT people is important and progressive...for starters, I don't think people choose their sexuality. While it could be a matter of both 'nature' and 'nurture'; that could be possible, I think that for the most part, a person's sexuality is determined by biological factors. What is most common is that people are heterosexual. Some people are attracted to the same sex while not attracted to the opposite sex, and I think that it is really because of certain biological factors at play within them. It is no fault of their own for being the way they are. Science is more and more finding that this is probably scientific fact. A lot of evidence indicates this (by the way, they have very high standards for things becoming 'scientific fact'. The theory of evolution is very widely believed by scientists, but is not 'scientific fact').


So, with that belief on the matter of people's sexuality...I think it is wrong to hate and discriminate against these kinds of people. Virtually all people want romantic love, to fall in love with someone and share their life with the love of their life. Gays aren't all about just having sex with each other. They are just like so many straight people, they hope to fall in love with someone. They want to fall in love with people they are attracted to. I mean, they should have that right to. How would anyone feel about trying to fall in love with someone they simply aren't attracted to?

So, yes, I think equality and more rights for gays, lesbians, and bis is progressive. On the matter of transgendered people, it isn't even the same. The trans people just got lumped with gays, lesbians, and bis because they can't really stand on their own. Trans individuals have a condition, which is due to biological factors, that make them completely identify with the sex opposite of their physical self (so i.e. a person with the body of a male who absolutely identifies with the female gender). Males and females have differences in their brains and psyches. Part of what makes males and females different is their psyches and thus, who they are and how they develop psychologically. A person with a male body who identifies as a female, due to biological factors, has a female psyche. Transgendered people are terribly misunderstood by most of the world. Oh, also, I've read a number of trans individuals say that not being able to dress and live and be the gender they identify with be to be 'excruciating'. They specifically used that word.


Some might find this offensive, but honestly this is the truth. They are defective. Not any more or less a person who has a genetic illness or a person who is cross-eyed. This all falls back on genetic mutations. For the most part, this mutation might have fallen off awhile ago if it wasn't for it being seen as embarrassing. Where it was more or less expected for a man to marry and have children, etc. It effectively kept this genetic mutation in the gene pool. You can carry this gene and not even have it active, passing it on to your own children. That is how a family that has three children for example, only one ends up being gay and not all three.

It is actually kind of interesting to look at it at both a sociological and scientific point of view. Society and religion especially, saw it as something that should be hidden or overcome, rather than for what it is. If further in the past they were allowed to pursue it, the mutation would have fallen off, but now it is so interwoven into our genes, it is impossible now. Basically, society has to simply learn to accept it as it is, and deal with it. It would be easier to quarantine the world's population who is infected with every transmittable disease. So deal with it and accept it everyone must, because honestly, acceptance is the only relevant thing people can do at this point anyways.

The other part too, is it can be a choice. Some people do choose it, and again it is their right of choice. Humans have the ability to override their natural instincts, that is why you don't see someone grab a steak in the grocery store and attack just to get it. It isn't just about accessibility, but because humans are capable of choice. You have no way of knowing, sometimes not even the people themselves realized they made the choice rather than being driven by their own DNA.
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Posted 12/9/14

jehester wrote:


Mugen417 wrote:


serifsansserif wrote:




So yeah, those are my thoughts.. Though Japan IS still modernizing like the rest of the world. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong and it's further along than I think.


I agree with your statement but I would say that Japan is probably one of the MOST modern countries today, arguably more advanced than the United States (Technologically). And in geopolitical terms Japan is considered to be apart of western civilization.

overall I'm surprised to hear that Japan has a problem with homosexuals since they have such a high proportion of Atheists/Non practitioners of organized religion compared to any other country.

As for the OP I think back to samurai champloo (what a great show ) they explain the history of homosexuality in Japan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gQpUPL_zuQ





You are aware that Japan still has paper offices and limited computers in schools? Not to even touch on payment systems or logistics.



your counter argument seems anecdotal at best...

I'm pretty sure there are offices that are the same in the US as well, that's just the way each business chooses to operates.

Japan has better infrastructure which is the main point of my statement
http://www.businessinsider.com/countries-with-better-infrastructure-2013-3#2-singapore-23

Japan also outperforms the US in Healthcare and education as well

Even though America has silicon valley ( the envy of the world in terms of innovation) this is an outlier to the overall system which is crumbling compared to Japan (not that Japan doesn't have major flaws i.e horrible immigration policy)

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Posted 12/9/14
Homosexuality is perfectly fine. So there is no need to ban gay marriage or do anything to ruin a homosexuals life. When it comes to anime I don't like yaoi manly because I'm a straight guy and I am into women but it doesn't bother me if a guy is gay. My father is gay and I love him and his boyfriend. The only think I hate about gay people is when they dress and or act like the sex they don't want to be with.
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Posted 12/9/14 , edited 12/9/14
I also forgot to touch on another thing, the law portion. The only thing I have noticed about this world as a whole, is it is too reactionary. It waits for something to happen to then do something about it, instead of preempting it. Take artificial intelligence as an example. We have no laws on the books about it. Every day we make smarter, and faster machines. Humans are machines just as well. What is sentience, but the realization that you exist really. Like computers, humans follow programmed instructions that make them operate and then select from the available choices provided to us. The only difference is we are biological, and they would be constructed.

Just like we aren't doing anything about that, we had full opportunity to think ahead and address these things. Has it magically gone away the past 100 years? Ofcourse not. The only reason it seems like more gay people exist, is because they feel safer in being able to tell others instead of hide it. Imagine a sports player 40 years ago say he was gay, his career would be over that day. Imagine the same from almost any person who wanted to keep doing their job. Ultimately, the laws help adjust people's state of thought. There would be initial resistance, but over time it would lessen and be seen as just another law. If they did this 50 years ago, we wouldn't even be talking about this now.
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Posted 12/9/14 , edited 12/9/14
Ai, to answer your question about characters check out Akame go Kill's Bulat, he's from this season and not stereotyped as badly as Tiger and Bunny's Fire Emblem was.

Now as to your other question about Japan and marriage, part of it is a misunderstanding of what marriage actually is in their society (and what it was in ours prior to the 1800's.) Marriage is a state approved protection for the reproduction of children. That's it, pure and simple, all this stuff about love and happiness is fairly new culturally, and was mainly inspired by mass entertainments. So to insure lineage and various other property transference rights the marriage system developed to cover these things. Then add this is rather unsurprising biological fact, homosexual couples cannot reproduce without outside intervention, so no children, no need to create a protective system. That also means that divorce laws are entirely different as well, especially when children are involved.

Japan is currently under going a massive population crisis, their birth rates are falling and the population is aging. They're currently estimated to have a net loss of a million people per year over the next 50 years. However their current male to female ratio in new births is pretty close to 1 to 1, encouraging for them, but not great. This makes it doubtful there will be changes in the law to encourage anything other than traditional marriage as they are going to want as many of those children having children as possible. Plus that law is actually part of their Constitution, making altering of it much more of a challenge than in other nations.

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Posted 12/9/14

jehester wrote:


AiYumega wrote:


jehester wrote:


AiYumega wrote:

I don't really mind that honestly. That's their country, their store, they can let who they want in.

We kept them in camps for 5 years, I'd be pretty pissed too.



I.... I don't even know how to try to even try to began with this....








I love Japan. I know plenty of Japanese people, from Japan, and they love America. But am I going to sit here and believe every single Japanese person is accepting of whites and foreigners? Hell no.

I understand it, but is it right? Probably not. But it happens.


Congrats?

But this:

Japan is a pretty progressive nation, a lot more so than the US,

Is downright silly.


Agreed. Hey I love anime, but I am not blind to the downside of Japanese culture. It is still very restrictive socially for better or for worse, no way would I call that progressive.

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Posted 12/9/14 , edited 12/9/14

ShadowFallsAlpha wrote:



Yeah, people could find that offensive, but maybe wording it differently can help or even avoid offending someone. Perhaps instead of saying "they are defective", just say they have "biological defects". That should be fine for many. For example, I have obsessive compulsive disorder. It is in large part due to biological factors. If someone said I was "defective", that would make me unhappy. However, if someone said I developed the condition because of biological defects, I'm fine with that, and really, saying that would be true.

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Posted 12/9/14

AiYumega wrote:


jehester wrote:

Why do you think that one thing is "progressive" anyway? New York also allows marriage between first cousins.



Gay marriage is progressive in that it's ONE of the last strides we have to make as a society for equality.

And my first cousin isn't my type. Sorry.


So does my state of CT which is pretty gross. The reason I am against 1st cousin marriage is that interbreeding drastically increases the chance of severe genetic defects which is bad for society as a whole.
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Posted 12/10/14

AiYumega wrote:


I don't really mind that honestly. That's their country, their store, they can let who they want in.

We kept them in camps for 5 years, I'd be pretty pissed too.
The sign is written in Korean as well, are you intentionally being a moron?
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