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Post Reply Hypothetical Situation: Give Me Your Opinion
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Posted 1/1/15 , edited 1/1/15
The following situation is purely hypothetical. What is right? What should a "good" person do? Am I in the wrong?

I am visiting my daughter's high school on a winter day after getting a call from the principal who informed me that my daughter was involved in a fight. The girl involved was beaten pretty badly and was hospitalized. When I arrive, I immediately ask for a video tape of the fight. After a bit of discussion, I get the footage of what I want, before seeing my daughter or hearing whatever else the principal has to say. The principal then notifies me that the family of the girl who was injured is pressing charges. Fine by me. I've seen what I needed to see.

A shot rings out. It's not a firecracker, or whatever the hell else people hear when a gun is fired. It's a gun, no doubt about it. Let's pause for a bit.

My daughter is a good and athletic student with enough self defense training to give her a chance to get away from most threats. From this, you might imagine that I concealed carry (CC) regularly. And I do. During the winter, it is all too convenient and comfortable to wear a dual shoulder holster, especially while driving (which I do a lot for work). I was already a bit worked up and forgot to leave my pistols in the truck as I ran into the school after receiving the call from the principal.

And resume...

The second I hear the shot fired, I come to my senses and remember that I have my 75B's on me. We'll picture a best case scenario where a school shooter didn't expect someone to be armed and ready to fire on campus near the entrance. One unlucky teacher is dead, and one idiot got the death penalty without a proper trial. Well, he didn't deserve it in the first place.

Regardless of what the law decides to do with me, what do you think is right? Should I have sat back and let a bunch of kids die while casually chatting with the principal, or were my actions justified? School shootings are something we have to be concerned about these days. But stupid parents are becoming more and more unreasonable. Where should I draw the line? If a person willing to pull the trigger is on scene, how many people should die before that person starts saving lives?
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Posted 1/1/15

lilliputian_otaku wrote:

I am retracting this question.


Lel you know is hypothetical, ask it.
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M / California
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Posted 1/1/15
I wanna know what it was
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F
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Posted 1/1/15
Huh?
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Posted 1/1/15

Lykradonai wrote:

I wanna know what it was


Now you know. Care to comment?
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31 / M / Riding sound waves
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Posted 1/1/15 , edited 1/2/15
In my opinion, kill the shooter before he causes any more harm. That would be the greater good.
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21 / M
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Posted 1/1/15
Unless you could subdue the shooter, what else could you do? That would be a difficult situation to be put under..
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23 / M / Beyond The Wall
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Posted 1/1/15
Kill the shooter, but if you can catch the shooter slipping...make a non fatal shot if possible
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21 / F / Canada
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Posted 1/1/15
You were justified
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Posted 1/2/15 , edited 1/2/15

RavingDragon wrote:

In my opinion, kill the shooter before he causes any more harm. That would be the greater good.


These reactions are pretty surprising. I am happy to see people thinking logically and making choices to protect people, in addition to themselves.


ReadingTheStars95 wrote:

Unless you could subdue the shooter, what else could you do? That would be a difficult situation to be put under..


It might be a different story if an incompetent shooter pointed his/or her gun at me, but in a life or death situation, where I don't have time to think and don't have time to doubt, I am going to aim for center of mass and fire 2-3 rounds before moving to the next live target.


dragontackle wrote:

Kill the shooter, but if you can catch the shooter slipping...make a non fatal shot if possible


It would be nice if I could place shots that well that quickly. But, I can't. If it's my life or his, I'll worry about non-lethal shot placement (that was a miserable failure) after I am picking up casings off the ground and the kids at school are alive and breathing.
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23 / M / Somewhere in rura...
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Posted 1/2/15
Theory: you protected innocents, so good job. Practice: can you pull off an insanity plea?
Vempy 
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Posted 1/2/15 , edited 1/2/15

lilliputian_otaku wrote:


dragontackle wrote:

Kill the shooter, but if you can catch the shooter slipping...make a non fatal shot if possible


It would be nice if I could place shots that well that quickly. But, I can't. If it's my life or his, I'll worry about non-lethal shot placement (that was a miserable failure) after I am picking up casings off the ground and the kids at school are alive and breathing.


I know it seems practical to say shoot for the legs/arms/etc. and wound not kill, but it is incredibly difficult to hit a moving target, let alone the limbs of said moving target. This concept of shoot to disable and not kill is not a good idea when the assailant is obviously dangerous and intent on killing. If they have a gun and you have a gun aim for the centre of mass. If you can see his whole body it's going to be the torso/chest and unfornuately that's where the vital organs are. You might kill him, you might not, but your first priority needs to be keeping as many people safe as possible.

Even if you do manage to peg an arm or a leg there is no guarantee that will bring him down. If you don't, well, you've just made yourself the next target and he probably won't be wasting the time to aim for your limbs. If you do bring him down, unless he's unconcious he probably still has the gun. Now someone needs to disarm him. Maybe the police show up by then, maybe not.

I'd say shoot centre mass. If you kill him, you kill him.




KP_Wrath wrote:

Theory: you protected innocents, so good job. Practice: can you pull off an insanity plea?


With a really good defence lawyer you could probably pull off self-defence. If not, you might also be able to plea it down from second degree murder to manslaughter.

This is a sketchy area and you'd probably have to go hunting for precedence but I'm sure it would have been set already, somewhere. Hopefully in your favour.
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19 / M / Illinois
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Posted 1/2/15
I'd call you a hero if you took out the shooter before he killed anyone else. If I were put under the same situation as you... hypothetically that is, I'd do the same, regardless of how other people view guns, anyone would and should agree that this is one circumstance in which CC would be a good thing.

Gonna go to gun control for a moment here. Outlawing guns won't do much other than preventing people from defending themselves with said guns, and possibly preventing a few shootings by the mentally unstable and/or accidents. However, outlawing guns will not under and circumstance prevent criminals, the ones who commit most shootings and almost all mass shootings, from obtaining guns.

I myself do not own a gun, and do not aim to own a gun. I'm more than happy with small knives, tasers, or hand to hand combat as a self defense. However guns have their uses, and the previously mentioned means won't do much in the hypothetical situation, so yes. I completely support your actions in this hypothetical situation.
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Posted 1/2/15

Vempy wrote:


lilliputian_otaku wrote:


dragontackle wrote:

Kill the shooter, but if you can catch the shooter slipping...make a non fatal shot if possible


It would be nice if I could place shots that well that quickly. But, I can't. If it's my life or his, I'll worry about non-lethal shot placement (that was a miserable failure) after I am picking up casings off the ground and the kids at school are alive and breathing.


I know it seems practical to say shoot for the legs/arms/etc. and wound not kill, but it is incredibly difficult to hit a moving target, let alone the limbs of said moving target. This concept of shoot to disable and not kill is not a good idea when the assailant is obviously dangerous and intent on killing. If they have a gun and you have a gun aim for the centre of mass. If you can see his whole body it's going to be the torso/chest and unfornuately that's where the vital organs are. You might kill him, you might not, but your first priority needs to be keeping as many people safe as possible.

Even if you do manage to peg an arm or a leg there is no guarantee that will bring him down. If you don't, well, you've just made yourself the next target and he probably won't be wasting the time to aim for your limbs. If you do bring him down, unless he's unconcious he probably still has the gun. Now someone needs to disarm him. Maybe the police show up by then, maybe not.

I'd say shoot centre mass. If you kill him, you kill him.




KP_Wrath wrote:

Theory: you protected innocents, so good job. Practice: can you pull off an insanity plea?


With a really good defence lawyer you could probably pull off self-defence. If not, you might also be able to plea it down from second degree murder to manslaughter.

This is a sketchy area and you'd probably have to go hunting for precedence but I'm sure it would have been set already, somewhere. Hopefully in your favour.


Defense probably won't be able to pull the self defense route because most schools are gun-free zones in the US. Best case scenario: you get self defense, plus felony firearm possession and unlawful discharge on the school grounds. Probably looking at involuntary manslaughter otherwise plus the aforementioned charges, would be my guess.

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39 / M / Florida
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Posted 1/2/15
Well, first off you've committed a huge no-no seeing as schools are gun free zones, and you're supposed to be a law abiding owner with your concealed and all, no matter how steamed up you may be; However, it would more or less be the right thing to eliminate a threat to life if given the opportunity. As you said, worry about what books they throw at you later.

As for "wounding shots", no.... Just NO. If you're going to shoot, shoot to kill. Frivolous lawsuits come from letting a criminal live.
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