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Post Reply COMMON CORE: are you for it or against it?
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M / Somewhere in Norway
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Posted 1/5/15
Juuuust wondering... Do you Americans have many Multiple Choice Tests? Like for Exams and stuff?
Heard alot about that, so just wondering if it is true.
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Posted 1/5/15

Nvo_01 wrote:

Juuuust wondering... Do you Americans have many Multiple Choice Tests? Like for Exams and stuff?
Heard alot about that, so just wondering if it is true.


Yes yes yes yes yes.

It applies to the following:
- Homework (End of chapter questions)
- Online Tests
- Paper Tests
- Quizzes
- Teaching from Powerpoint
- Driver License Exams
- Survey

etc.
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M / Somewhere in Norway
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Posted 1/5/15 , edited 1/5/15
Well, in Norway those tests are Rare
I heard about an American teacher being shocked when she saw that we wrote our Exams by hand.
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Posted 1/5/15

sasarahsept wrote:
The test had been completely online, and according to my memory, there were no multiple choice questions. That was for math and english.


Interesting. I suppose that would work nowadays. An online test could easily give teachers exactly what they want: instant grade-ability while avoiding the devil that is multiple choice.

When I was in school, web technology was not at a level that would accommodate something like online testing. Hell, the web wasn't even invented until I was in at least junior high, and access to the web proper (as opposed to walled-garden online services) wasn't all that common until at least my junior year in high school. It just wouldn't have worked.

Yeah. I'm old.
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Posted 1/5/15

corteznr1 wrote:

I'm against in as far as math is concerned. It teaches you the long way around of getting the answer. There really isn't much of a need. As far as education as a whole the entire system (including college) needs to be changed. In middle and high school civic classes need to be restored. They need to teach how taxes work, the importance of voting, and the importance of learning how to invest. College should build on this and go further in depth and make it a requirement for all degrees because no matter what you're studying you're going to need these things in life. Also of the classes in a specific degree program should all be relevant to the actual job. An electrical engineer should not be required to study the works of Shakespeare. They will never need that knowledge to perform that job. It's a waste of time and money. Now if said engineer was interested in Shakespeare they should be able to take the class as an elective. I could go on but the education system really needs to be set up to where it churns out better informed and prepared future citizens. The country can't improve if your average citizen doesn't even understand basics of how things work.


This is just sooooo spot on. It's what I've bee feeling for the longest time.


Same. Sociology/psych I read the entire text book in a month, aced the tests, and just slept in class the whole time.
Visual Basic? 4 month course, did all the worksheets in about a month and a half, then was requested to perform "other" programs to keep my occupied. *shrugs* It doesn't hurt that I grew up with an old atari home computer and had to copy game programs from an old book.


neugenx wrote:

The school systems today (and even back in my day) have always been flawed. It doesn't surprise me seeing the government get involved but just like in the past they continue to break things more instead of fixing them. What I've noticed in the past is our schools are teaching to the 1% leaving 99% out in the dust and it'll never change. Our current unemployment rate says it all. There are some simple tweaks to the current system that'll do these children the justice they deserve. In my day we had mandatory maths, mandatory englishs, mandatory sciences, mandatory humanities, mandatory phys eds, mandatory electives, 12 classes a day with a mandatory 30-45 minutes of homework each, and the mandatory unpaid teachers (or teachers with tenure who felt safe) who just didn't care. About 1% of us or less use earth science, chemistry (although it may be higher if you include the students running meth labs) or even trigonometry in our everyday.

What we need are 3 simple things to fix the school system as it stands today.
1. Graded teachers. Teachers need to be judged and graded on thier job performance just like the students they teach. Pass/Fail is a simple concept that will work. Tenure is a past concept that should be deemed obsolete. I had a teacher who came in, had us put our homework on his desk in alphabetical order, had his assistant check off in the book that we handed in homework, told us to read 2-3 chapters in the book silently then took 5 minutes or less of questions from us before leaving class. This was a common practice when it came to tenured teachers out here. I've heard from the little ones in my family that it hasn's changed at all.
2. Homework is useless. If the children were being taught right in class there would be no need for homework. It's just a way of adding unnecessary stress/risk onto a child's health. My third cousin currently has about 6 hrs of homework every night and more on weekends. She has a hard time understanding a lot of what she learns due to lack of sleep. Keep the children alert, well fed and healthy and they can learn.
3. Maths up to algebra and geometry, history/geography and English language classes should be the only mandatory classes of current core classes. There should be more options to promote individuality among youngsters. Further studies in the chosen paths (English, math, geography/history, sciences) should be optional electives along with choices such as arts, musics, computer sciences, bookkeeping/accounting, etc. For the remainder of electives they should include choices of foreign languages, culinary, woodcraft, etc. Real world choices of career the majority will choose. They will choose thier own directions considering it will be thier future and life. Some madatory choices though would be real world survival classes such as basic cooking, cleaning, hygiene, relationship education (to teach manners, common courtesy, etc) among other standard everyday life issues.

Those 3 changes will give students a reason to see school as less a chore and let them take pride in thier own curriculum choices. It will also remove the deadwood teachers from the system allowing more who actually care about the children to step up and get the job done right.


You underestimate how much science and math is used in even the most basic jobs. A trade like plumbing or electrical requires a lot more understanding of what chemicals you might be playing with, with plumbing geometry for angles and fittings, electrical work requires understanding how metals behave and react to electrical charge, etc. Woordworking, building a house, etc? all require sciences and math. perhaps not calculus, be geometry and trig are definitely something people don't think they need (but use all the time).

Homework... ehhh.. it's at least important I suppose to give assignments for the students to work on their own.

As for everything outside of core math/science/english being an elective, I've been there. 2 years of science and 3 years of math were all that were require in HS. (4 years english). I of course took more...
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Posted 1/5/15 , edited 1/5/15

evilotakuneko wrote:

So I've been reading the standards (OP, you should link the actual standards) from the PDF linked here: http://www.corestandards.org/Math/

Thus far I'm not finding anything truly objectionable. It all looks very much like what I went through, though I don't recall exactly what grade each topic was introduced in.

I think this is what's getting people's goats:

Quoth the Standard for Math:


Add and subtract within 20, demonstrating fluency for addition and subtraction within 10. Use strategies such as counting on; making ten (e.g., 8 + 6 = 8 + 2 + 4 = 10 + 4 = 14); decomposing a number leading to a ten (e.g., 13 – 4 = 13 – 3 – 1 = 10 – 1 = 9); using the relationship between addition and subtraction (e.g., knowing that 8 + 4 = 12, one knows 12 – 8 = 4); and creating equivalent but easier or known sums (e.g., adding 6 + 7 by creating the known equivalent 6 + 6 + 1 = 12 + 1 = 13).


I really find no problem with this at all. In fact I was not taught this way (I was taught the whole borrowing/carry-the-one thing) but when faced with a sum I can't immediately regurgitate I actually do something similar. There's nothing inherently wrong with decomposing a problem to make it easier. Calculating a tip by adding together 10% of x + half of that result is easier than calculating 15% right off.

Moreover, I haven't seen anything thus far forbidding the teaching of other methods, such as the one I was taught.


I calculate in my head using the same method, though, to be honest sometimes I screw up remembering some of the numbers, and it can get messing holding that all in your head when you're multiplying three digit numbers or subtracting larger numbers.

I think though, that you, myself, and a few others are rarer in our ability and mental flexibility to think in this way, and, the explanation confuses the hell out of them. It is better to explain things linearly rather than in a more... "networked"/flexible way.
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22 / M
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Posted 1/5/15 , edited 1/5/15
I grew up with Common Core built into my curriculum, and although I did not struggle with it, I understand why other students do. People are different, including in the way they learn, and what they're capable of learning, and at the speed they learn.

Universities are an institution aimed at max profit for themselves, and as such, do not necessarily have students' best interest in mind. They should not dictate the entire direction a childhood education is aimed.

I support more diversity in educational options for children, push for less regulations on age-based standards, and more effort into producing competent and passionate teachers.
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27 / M / Louisville, KY
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Posted 1/5/15 , edited 1/5/15
I'm against it. The math they are teaching is so dumb and will make them suffer when they get into college courses. My sister is in 3rd grade and they don't make them multiply, instead they have them draw circles and use dashes for both multiplication and division. I been teaching her the logical way to do math, but her teacher marks even answers I help with wrong because they weren't done using the retarded circle method. It makes zero sense to force kids to use one and only one method to solve problems. That does not encourage learning, it encourages sameness and ignorance of the most efficient route. Now, my sister thinks drawing circles and using dashes to solve small division problems. What happens when she needs to long divide polynomials? I'm sure there is some drawing they learn for that too. It's ridiculous. I have been a math tutor for a while now and recently (like last 2 years) teachers have been contacting me telling me that they appreciate me helping their students but to not confuse them with different methods of solving problems and to help them solve the problems how the book tells them to. Umm... no, I'll continue to teach them the logical way so they are REALLY prepared for college and not your dumb test.
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こ ~ じ ~ か
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Posted 1/5/15 , edited 1/5/15
From what I gather in this thread, it's not really Common Core that is the problem. Common Core is just a convenient scapegoat.

It's bad teachers.
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26 / M / Houma
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Posted 1/5/15

querkle wrote:

It doesnt matter how they change the education system, parents are using cruise control and the school system to raise kids making education not seem as important. Parents need to start becoming more active in education again if they want things to change. My step son's father raises him with the cruise control method and the child will get F's left with him, its been tested but gets A's and B's with me and his mother... it all comes down to just a bit of structure at home and parents caring about the kids education more than their own personal life. From the way this new method describes it sounds like the government is just trying to be more proactive about raising your kids which i personally wouldn't want.

But how to get the vast majority of parents to care again? Sure they all love their kids, but they expect at age 5 to hand the kids off to the school and not have much else to do with raising them..


I'm going to throw this one in there... my family was active in my education but you know to what extent? Pay-for-Performance, success = money... what better motivation than that?
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20 / M / Arizona
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Posted 1/5/15
Well, nice to see a fellow ASU Student, I'm also a freshman.

I will admit that I am not familiar enough with Common Core to form a proper argument. But I will say this: I do not favor the Federal government overstepping its outreach so I would prefer state-level standards rather than national. Furthermore I am in favor of having less stupid people. As a student in Arizona for the past 8 years I want our education standards to be increased. So if Common Core actually challenges kids then I'm all for it. Not quite sure where all the "Communist Core" sentiment came from.
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Posted 1/5/15
The biggest issue that I see is that Common Core is too loose with its implications. It was meant to be a standard for all school to use, but still those that use it utilize different methods. So students are still being taught differently. Another issue I see is that if a student were to move halfway through school, there could exist a gap in their knowledge. This happened to me going through school and i never learned basic grammar until i was a sophomore in college. So that is a problem that still persists. I am all for having a standard of what students should know for each grade. That way the possibility of a gap in their knowledge would be harder to create.

The other issue I had growing up in here is that I was constantly held back in school. Since I understood everything right away homework felt tedious and as a result I became bored with school and never studied. This led me to never learn how to study. I also see this happening to my younger siblings. One is in grade school and the other day asked for help on homework when I visited, and the math problems were so strange. The actual math was very simple, but the words used were so bizarre. The problem was from a book that was supposed to follow common core guidelines. As for math, different techniques to solving a problem should be encouraged. It makes being a teacher harder, but if we are trying to push our students we should also be pushing our teachers. It is a two way street.

Sorry for the wall of text,

TLDR: I am all for a common set of standards since it helps students learn what they should, but common core needs to be more strict with its standards if it is going to be successful.

Wihl 
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M / Lagrangian Librat...
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Posted 1/5/15
Top down management of teaching will always fail. To teach one starts with the students.
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31 / F / Wisconsin USA
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Posted 1/5/15
So far from what I have learned about it I am against it. More so the math. It seems like they are teaching more for testing, which not everyone is good at. Even though they may be great at the subject.
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22 / M / Texas
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Posted 1/5/15 , edited 1/5/15

DarksirenxX wrote:


bobsagget wrote:

Communist core lol. Go on youtube and you'll find plenty of information about common core and why its so bad. here's one video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si-kx5-MKSE


have you read he actual policy or have you jumped on the band wagon of ignorance that exists on you tube? do you have any of your own reasons that you are against it? if so please lets discuss. if your only argument is someone else's opinion you saw in a you tube video it isn't valid.


If I have no original argument or opinion to give that Hitler was bad does that mean my opinion on him isn't valid? Not taking a side here, just pointing that silly statement out. I realize that you only intended to get people to discuss the issue for themselves instead of adopting slogans and falling in line with a popular opinion. And on that line of thought, I do have an opinion.

I think the Public Education System's primary issue is not with the schools themselves, though they have plenty of flaws, but the parents. People seem to think that if you throw your kid in school they'll wind up competent adults. It doesn't work like that. The first and most major issue, to me, is that parents feel fine to allow their kids to develop their social/emotional intelligence by imitating other kids. Would anyone in here disagree with me that high schoolers are some of the most brain-dead individuals in regards to proper behavior in any real life situation? Maybe some might disagree, but I'm not really sure what reasons they would have to do so. Parents need to get involved is my main point. Beyond that I don't really know enough to say anything.
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