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Post Reply Freedom vs. Equality/Inclusionism EXTENDED DISCUSSION
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35 / M
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Posted 1/5/15
Another interesting topic here. One that applies very much to today's politics and the current culture of restrictions versus freedom.

Without trying to name out specific hot topic examples, our (US) society has been fighting back and forth about personal freedoms and even the freedoms of certain groups and inclusionism and often uses rules and regulations that enforce restrictions in order to help achieve this. Some times this is beneficial to a larger group than it hinders, and sometimes this is necessary for a greater social good (the formation of the FDA for example when in the 20's rat meat could be sold as chicken and there weren't any regulations, or worker's protection laws from a similar time period). Other times, the number of people affected is vastly greater than the number of people it protects, (peanuts being verboten in schools due to concerns about nut allergies that affect a very small portion of our population), or frivolous (laws about the size of soft drink you can purchase, or the number of rounds a gun can hold. Both of which seem good intentioned, but unfortunately, do not change the fact that, for example, you can buy multiple soft drinks, or you can always reload).

As a pragmatic and utilitarian person, (and paradoxically, fairly liberal, despite most of these restrictions being called for by the liberal parties) this concerns me greatly. Inclusionism and progress is important. Regulation and the dreaded term "social engineering" (manipulating regulations to create societal change) is acceptable to me, but at the same time, I prefer to maximize freedom and individuality, (even for those I disagree with), while doing so.

So the question is, where is the line drawn between the two modes of thought? Is there a methodology that allows for compromise?

Can we even promote social change and progress without impinging upon the rights and freedoms of others? What would that look like?
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Posted 3/22/15 , edited 3/22/15
I think the best compromise would be a nation that is split up into four major areas.
Each area having their own specific laws that tailor to certain people.
I know that the US have states with different laws. But it's so minuscule it doesn't really count.

There needs to be a way where people can practice their freedom without infringing on other people's freedom.
Like smoke weed if you don't harm anybody or go outside even.

Many times stuck in traffic, I felt like there needed to be a fast lane or a speeding permit for those capable of driving at an advanced level.
That just because women want to feel equal. They just aren't physically and biologically or mentally the same.
To allow those minorities their freedom by somehow testing them fairly and making sure there actions don't have consequences.

We as humans are way too emotional to function logically. For instance, a man wants to paint his house pink. But that would make the whole neighborhood look wack. Making him move or stopping him from painting his house is infringing his rights. But maybe he's purposely trying to stand out. That maybe if everyone had wack houses. He would be dissuaded. Everyone is trying to get a leg up.

Noone would be happy unless they had something others didn't. First world societies stand upon the poverty of third world countries.
Bob in the US, for 1hr of work. Can use that money to buy 4kg of rice. Which took 3 farmers in china, 2hrs each to harvest.

We live in a capitalist word. The more I think about it, the more fk-ed up I realize the world is and how government can only do so much.
Posted 3/22/15
freedom is an illusion

so is equality

you want either? get back to reality and know that whites hate every one that isn't white, and blacks hate everyone including blacks

arabs hate half breeds and everyone else

the chinese hate gwailos

russians hate themselves

poles are stupid

jews love money more than anything else
Posted 3/22/15

dredulus wrote:

freedom is an illusion

so is equality

you want either? get back to reality and know that whites hate every one that isn't white, and blacks hate everyone including blacks

arabs hate half breeds and everyone else

the chinese hate gwailos

russians hate themselves

poles are stupid

jews love money more than anything else


Wait, what do jews hate?
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18 / M / Korriban
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Posted 3/22/15

dredulus wrote:

freedom is an illusion

so is equality

you want either? get back to reality and know that whites hate every one that isn't white, and blacks hate everyone including blacks

arabs hate half breeds and everyone else

the chinese hate gwailos

russians hate themselves

poles are stupid

jews love money more than anything else


So, I really hope this was a joke (other than the illusion part...), but as a white, I hate whites more than anyone else...(sorry, generalizations kind of irk me...)
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Posted 3/22/15

severticas wrote:


dredulus wrote:

freedom is an illusion

so is equality

you want either? get back to reality and know that whites hate every one that isn't white, and blacks hate everyone including blacks

arabs hate half breeds and everyone else

the chinese hate gwailos

russians hate themselves

poles are stupid

jews love money more than anything else


Wait, what do jews hate?


We don't hate anyone. Well, I guess the Israelite Jews hate Palestinians.
Posted 3/22/15

jordancharacter wrote:


severticas wrote:


dredulus wrote:

freedom is an illusion

so is equality

you want either? get back to reality and know that whites hate every one that isn't white, and blacks hate everyone including blacks

arabs hate half breeds and everyone else

the chinese hate gwailos

russians hate themselves

poles are stupid

jews love money more than anything else


Wait, what do jews hate?


We don't hate anyone. Well, I guess the Israelite Jews hate Palestinians.


Why do they hate the Palestinians?
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19 / M
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Posted 3/22/15

dredulus wrote:

freedom is an illusion

so is equality

you want either? get back to reality and know that whites hate every one that isn't white, and blacks hate everyone including blacks

arabs hate half breeds and everyone else

the chinese hate gwailos

russians hate themselves

poles are stupid

jews love money more than anything else


That is fucking stupid.
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Posted 3/22/15

severticas wrote:


jordancharacter wrote:


severticas wrote:


dredulus wrote:

freedom is an illusion

so is equality

you want either? get back to reality and know that whites hate every one that isn't white, and blacks hate everyone including blacks

arabs hate half breeds and everyone else

the chinese hate gwailos

russians hate themselves

poles are stupid

jews love money more than anything else


Wait, what do jews hate?


We don't hate anyone. Well, I guess the Israelite Jews hate Palestinians.


Why do they hate the Palestinians?


Well, get shot with missiles and hearing a Palestinian terror group saying they want to kill all Jews doesn't exactly make you great friends.

Posted 3/22/15

jordancharacter wrote:


severticas wrote:


jordancharacter wrote:


severticas wrote:


dredulus wrote:

freedom is an illusion

so is equality

you want either? get back to reality and know that whites hate every one that isn't white, and blacks hate everyone including blacks

arabs hate half breeds and everyone else

the chinese hate gwailos

russians hate themselves

poles are stupid

jews love money more than anything else


Wait, what do jews hate?


We don't hate anyone. Well, I guess the Israelite Jews hate Palestinians.


Why do they hate the Palestinians?


Well, get shot with missiles and hearing a Palestinian terror group saying they want to kill all Jews doesn't exactly make you great friends.



Why don't they just blow them all up?
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Posted 3/22/15



Because the terror groups are ingrained directly into the Palestinian society, so doing so would result in many innocent deaths. Also, the UN would probably be pretty pissed at Israel, and nuking the west bank with it being so close to Israel is....problematic.
Posted 3/22/15

jordancharacter wrote:




Because the terror groups are ingrained directly into the Palestinian society, so doing so would result in many innocent deaths. Also, the UN would probably be pretty pissed at Israel, and nuking the west bank with it being so close to Israel is....problematic.


That's lame.
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Posted 3/24/15
I don't see an intrinsic conflict between freedom and equality. For example, it is promotion of equal protection under the law to guarantee all people a positive right to be provided legal counsel, and yet this is also a crucial protection of freedom.
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23 / M
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Posted 3/24/15
I also don't see why we can't have both freedom and equality.
What do peanuts and the number of rounds a gun can hold have to do with either?
You can eat peanuts in school. There were vending machines with peanut stuff.
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46 / M / Between yesterday...
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Posted 3/24/15
Freedom and equality are not exclusive to each other they are inclusive and one benefits the other greatly. The more equal your society the more freedom it has.
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