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Post Reply Did you know? from an aerial veiw the bible resembles swiss cheese.
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Posted 1/7/15

Well you might also want to take into consideration that the Earth in Noah's time was vastly different than it is now. I always kind of leaned on the idea that all the continents were connected and became separated do to the flood.
Also wasn't there something about the Firmament mentioned and after the Flood the Firmament was gone. I can't exactly remember as it's been awhile since I've discussed this
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Posted 1/7/15

Ctonhunter wrote:


Well you might also want to take into consideration that the Earth in Noah's time was vastly different than it is now. I always kind of leaned on the idea that all the continents were connected and became separated do to the flood.
Also wasn't there something about the Firmament mentioned and after the Flood the Firmament was gone. I can't exactly remember as it's been awhile since I've discussed this

There are so many different theories on this. It's not 100% clear, but the Bible doesn't always reveal every single detail. It reveals what God knows you need to know. Does exactly how the flood happen matter in the grand scheme of things? No, but that it happens matters more than how it happened. That it happened matters more than proving it happened.
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Posted 1/7/15 , edited 1/7/15


I agree with you there. It's not important on how it happened, but it is important that it did. Still interesting to discuss and read about.
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Posted 1/7/15 , edited 1/7/15

Ctonhunter wrote:



I agree with you there. It's not important on how it happened, but it is important that it did. Still interesting to discuss and read about.

Oh, most definitely. Agreed there
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Posted 1/7/15

kirika202 wrote:


DarksirenxX wrote:

one other bit of curiosity. everyone always goes back to incest as being the answer to my original question. which i can see except for one thing. there is a really good reason incest is illegal other than the fact that its repulsive. it creates mutated genes. so if that were the case, then wouldn't the world look like a really big scene out of "the hills have eyes" or something? or maybe that is where disease did in fact come from, don't know but this is something ive thought about a little bit.


It is a fact that incest happened in the Bible (the people I mentioned before) and yet, they had beautiful and perfectly normal children. It could be that God was in control because the Bible mentions a time when God hid his face from the Earth (he didn't look for anyone or did anything) so my theory is that God was in control during that time. It wasn't until later that incest was prohibited....later when there was enough people to procreate with others outside your family.

Also, the Bible didn't explain every little detail so if you're going to question every little detail you will go crazy. Like when God said on the Bible "he drew a circle upon the face of the depth" and "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth"...are you going to imagine God drawing a circle with his finger and actually sitting on the earth? it is because of this that people thought that the Earth was flat, they thought that he literally drew a circle like when we draw it on paper and it had to be flat so he could sit...*laughs* the Bible is spiritual and it is often written in parables (it uses metaphors a lot).


ya i know. im not dense or anything. only questioning things that were supposed to be fact not the metaphorical stuff. well which ever, here is my take on it. the bible is full of holes misgivings vagueness because it was written not by god, not by possessed saints or whatever influenced by the holy spirit. it was compiled by a number of different writers thousands of years after any of the events occurred. all of which supposedly were talked to by a spirit assumed to be a god. there isn't much difference than joseph smith. so excuse me for asking for clarification but if your going to start playing the "air quotations" game with me then i don't wish to hear your take on it. im not slow so your sarcasm is irritating to say the least. i don't believe in god i don't believe in the devil i don't believe in what joseph smith said either. i was trying to gain a little insight but now honestly im really annoyed with this so bye.

Posted 1/7/15 , edited 1/7/15
Lol

ok bye.

Ps. I find it funny that you thought I was being sarcastic, which I wasn't. You're asking questions that the Bible has no answers for so all we can do with your questions is guess what happened. You don't believe which makes me think that your thread was not meant to dig in for answers actually but to make fun of the Bible due to its vagueness. I guess I was the dense one for not realizing it before. I usually don't answer to unbelievers because everything you say to them is not acceptable.
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Posted 1/7/15

DarksirenxX wrote:

just having faith in something that makes no sense at all? nope i don't really intend to do that. would you trust an accountant to manage your funds if he couldn't do multiplication and division. would you go to a surgeon who didn't pass all his medical exams? i believe it should be the same with faith. don't have faith just because you are told to. have faith in something you have taken the time to fully understand and find to be logical. Also hearing another persons point of view always makes your vision twice as broad. its better in my mind to understand something from more angles than my own.


I don't really understand all you're saying here but I think me wanting to break away from Christianity was always lurking in me. I don't like it's nature. I don't like how when I go to church people chant, simultaneously, sickening phrases not really thinking about what they're saying, I don't like how I have to sing hymns about doing anything for God when he never asked me how I felt, I don't like believing in something that doesn't show any sign of existence, I don't like how we always have to be sorry for being ourselves and apologize for our mistakes, we're not supernatural beings, we make mistakes because we haven't learnt yet, it's like God want us to apologize for being human, I just hate it. It's like he's saying "I made you this imperfect now apologize for being this imperfect" even though it's his fault. It's not freedom, it's jail, you feel tied down. The Satanic interpretation of the Bible is that Satan (Lucifer; a much nicer name) is the good guy in the bible.. I'm actually tempted to believe that because by making Adam and Eve eat that apple, he gave them freedom of thought, allowing them for themselves to make a decision on what's right and wrong and make up their own morals, it seemed like God just wanted them to be mindless puppets who obeyed him without a thought to what the reasons were.
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Posted 1/7/15 , edited 1/7/15

piratequeen369 wrote:



I don't really understand all you're saying here but I think me wanting to break away from Christianity was always lurking in me. I don't like it's nature. I don't like how when I go to church people chant, simultaneously, sickening phrases not really thinking about what they're saying, I don't like how I have to sing hymns about doing anything for God when he never asked me how I felt, I don't like believing in something that doesn't show any sign of existence, I don't like how we always have to be sorry for being ourselves and apologize for our mistakes, we're not supernatural beings, we make mistakes because we haven't learnt yet, it's like God want us to apologize for being human, I just hate it. It's like he's saying "I made you this imperfect now apologize for being this imperfect" even though it's his fault. It's not freedom, it's jail, you feel tied down. The Satanic interpretation of the Bible is that Satan (Lucifer; a much nicer name) is the good guy in the bible.. I'm actually tempted to believe that because by making Adam and Eve eat that apple, he gave them freedom of thought, allowing them for themselves to make a decision on what's right and wrong and make up their own morals, it seemed like God just wanted them to be mindless puppets who obeyed him without a thought to what the reasons were.

I'm curious what kind of church you attend because that feeling you describe does not sound like what I get when I go to church. It sounds like a "high" church setting, which is big on liturgy, unison prayer, rigid in it's order, strict following of rite/rituals etc as opposed to "low" church which is more fluid and less rigid.

That said, I as a Christian strongly disagree with that interpretation of Satan & Genesis. God made man in His image, per the Bible, and was made to be able to be in harmony with Him. When man sinned against God, disobeying His one simple rule in the garden - they violated that relationship. Satan knowingly tempted them. Now, that doesn't make it Satan's fault, like Eve tries to blame. It's their own faults, all sins are every individuals faults.

If a church is making you feel like you're imperfect...well, you are. We all are. As Paul wrote in Romans 3:23 - all have sinned and fallen short of God (paraphrase). Later in 1 John 1, John points out that all are sinners and those who claim to not be - are liars & are calling God a liar. We're all imperfect, that's a fact of life. God did design us and intends to remold us back into His image. That's what Christianity is supposed to be about, following Christ and through your relationship with the Lord begin to resemble Him more and more.

We don't need to apologize for being human, but in Christianity we are to apologize when we violate God's law. If I steal, lust, hate, murder, etc (I don't do the steal or murder thing, for the record), we are supposed to feel remorse and truly repent. That doesn't mean apologize for being human, it means recognizing when we have flaws and sin. Think of it this way. I have 4 kids. When my 3 year old hits her 5 year old brother, I stop her and make her apologize to her brother. How is it different on a cosmic level when God, who is our Father in Heaven, asks us to apologize when we violate His rules?

If the church you are in is making you feel bad for being a person, it might be worth checking into a different church. May I ask what church you belong to? I'm curious.
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mdmrn wrote:

I'm curious what kind of church you attend because that feeling you describe does not sound like what I get when I go to church. It sounds like a "high" church setting, which is big on liturgy, unison prayer, rigid in it's order, strict following of rite/rituals etc as opposed to "low" church which is more fluid and less rigid.

That said, I as a Christian strongly disagree with that interpretation of Satan & Genesis. God made man in His image, per the Bible, and was made to be able to be in harmony with Him. When man sinned against God, disobeying His one simple rule in the garden - they violated that relationship. Satan knowingly tempted them. Now, that doesn't make it Satan's fault, like Eve tries to blame. It's their own faults, all sins are every individuals faults.

If a church is making you feel like you're imperfect...well, you are. We all are. As Paul wrote in Romans 3:23 - all have sinned and fallen short of God (paraphrase). Later in 1 John 1, John points out that all are sinners and those who claim to not be - are liars & are calling God a liar. We're all imperfect, that's a fact of life. God did design us and intends to remold us back into His image. That's what Christianity is supposed to be about, following Christ and through your relationship with the Lord begin to resemble Him more and more.

We don't need to apologize for being human, but in Christianity we are to apologize when we violate God's law. If I steal, lust, hate, murder, etc (I don't do the steal or murder thing, for the record), we are supposed to feel remorse and truly repent. That doesn't mean apologize for being human, it means recognizing when we have flaws and sin. Think of it this way. I have 4 kids. When my 3 year old hits her 5 year old brother, I stop her and make her apologize to her brother. How is it different on a cosmic level when God, who is our Father in Heaven, asks us to apologize when we violate His rules?

If the church you are in is making you feel bad for being a person, it might be worth checking into a different church. May I ask what church you belong to? I'm curious.


A traditional Roman Catholic one.

What's the point of striving to be perfect if you never can be? I feel that I'm a nice enough person, I just prefer to be nice from the bottom of my heart not because I feel ordered to.

"If I steal, lust, hate, murder etc (I don't do the steal or murder thing, for the record), we are supposed to feel remorse and repent":

Oh, thanks for telling me, I totally thought you were a thief and a murderer, that's good news! ;)

I think all our feelings, even hate, are necessary, we emotions so that we make better decisions and have better judgement about things, that much is obvious.

They say that's what Christianity is about and sure that's one aspect of it but Christianity focuses too much on that as if we don't have the ability to do improve ourselves without it, life is already doing that. There's more to life than that: having fun, experiencing new things etc. When you're doing things like that you learn along the way anyway, I dislike the phrase, "live your life in the image of God" because life doesn't only consist of doing good deeds, a life like that doesn't exist. Life is being an asshole, making mistakes, sometimes being nice, sometimes having compassion, having an adventure, falling out with friends, sometimes hating people, getting hurt, hurting others etc. So it seems like the church is lying. Don't you think the church's obsession with self-improvement when not everybody needs self-improvement is a bit peculiar? Christianity just targets that because it touches at people's insecurities and tugs at people's hearts.

Happiness can't exist without us knowing sadness. I'm only happy because I know what being sad feels like, I know the feeling I have now is better than sadness. To deem something pleasant, you have to be informed about the unpleasant. To live a happy life where everyone is nice and you know nothing of sadness and pain? You're not happy, you're just an ignorant, mindless puppet. I don't mean to say that in a harsh way, nor am I saying you are a puppet but if that's the fantasy you dream, in that dream, that's all you will be. So why does God and the church like to put this fantasy in our heads? Hmmm, well, secretly we all want it don't we? Peace... no Islamic extremist bombings or war between neighbouring countries to be heard of when we switch on the news - that would be so nice, we all think it so the church takes advantage of that to control us.

Sorry, I think I went a bit off topic here but do you see what I mean? I don't need more than my parents to teach me these things and if I do, I'll go see a counselor who has a degree and knows what they're doing.
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What's up with Crunchyroll as of late having a whole bunch of debates about religion all of a sudden? It's not a rhetorical question I'm genuinely curious as to why more and more forums have been popping out as of late.
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piratequeen369 wrote:


mdmrn wrote:

I'm curious what kind of church you attend because that feeling you describe does not sound like what I get when I go to church. It sounds like a "high" church setting, which is big on liturgy, unison prayer, rigid in it's order, strict following of rite/rituals etc as opposed to "low" church which is more fluid and less rigid.

That said, I as a Christian strongly disagree with that interpretation of Satan & Genesis. God made man in His image, per the Bible, and was made to be able to be in harmony with Him. When man sinned against God, disobeying His one simple rule in the garden - they violated that relationship. Satan knowingly tempted them. Now, that doesn't make it Satan's fault, like Eve tries to blame. It's their own faults, all sins are every individuals faults.

If a church is making you feel like you're imperfect...well, you are. We all are. As Paul wrote in Romans 3:23 - all have sinned and fallen short of God (paraphrase). Later in 1 John 1, John points out that all are sinners and those who claim to not be - are liars & are calling God a liar. We're all imperfect, that's a fact of life. God did design us and intends to remold us back into His image. That's what Christianity is supposed to be about, following Christ and through your relationship with the Lord begin to resemble Him more and more.

We don't need to apologize for being human, but in Christianity we are to apologize when we violate God's law. If I steal, lust, hate, murder, etc (I don't do the steal or murder thing, for the record), we are supposed to feel remorse and truly repent. That doesn't mean apologize for being human, it means recognizing when we have flaws and sin. Think of it this way. I have 4 kids. When my 3 year old hits her 5 year old brother, I stop her and make her apologize to her brother. How is it different on a cosmic level when God, who is our Father in Heaven, asks us to apologize when we violate His rules?

If the church you are in is making you feel bad for being a person, it might be worth checking into a different church. May I ask what church you belong to? I'm curious.


A traditional Roman Catholic one.

What's the point of striving to be perfect if you never can be? I feel that I'm a nice enough person, I just prefer to be nice from the bottom of my heart not because I feel ordered to.

"If I steal, lust, hate, murder etc (I don't do the steal or murder thing, for the record), we are supposed to feel remorse and repent":

Oh, thanks for telling me, I totally thought you were a thief and a murderer, that's good news! ;)

I think all our feelings, even hate, are necessary, we emotions so that we make better decisions and have better judgement about things, that much is obvious.

They say that's what Christianity is about and sure that's one aspect of it but Christianity focuses too much on that as if we don't have the ability to do improve ourselves without it, life is already doing that. There's more to life than that: having fun, experiencing new things etc. When you're doing things like that you learn along the way anyway, I dislike the phrase, "live your life in the image of God" because life doesn't only consist of doing good deeds, a life like that doesn't exist. Life is being an asshole, making mistakes, sometimes being nice, sometimes having compassion, having an adventure, falling out with friends, sometimes hating people, getting hurt, hurting others etc. So it seems like the church is lying. Don't you think the church's obsession with self-improvement when not everybody needs self-improvement is a bit peculiar? Christianity just targets that because it touches at people's insecurities and tugs at people's hearts.

Happiness can't exist without us knowing sadness. I'm only happy because I know what being sad feels like, I know the feeling I have now is better than sadness. To deem something pleasant, you have to be informed about the unpleasant. To live a happy life where everyone is nice and you know nothing of sadness and pain? You're not happy, you're just an ignorant, mindless puppet. I don't mean to say that in a harsh way, nor am I saying you are a puppet but if that's the fantasy you dream, in that dream, that's all you will be. So why does God and the church like to put this fantasy in our heads? Hmmm, well, secretly we all want it don't we? Peace... no Islamic extremist bombings or war between neighbouring countries to be heard of when we switch on the news - that would be so nice, we all think it so the church takes advantage of that to control us.

Sorry, I think I went a bit off topic here but do you see what I mean? I don't need more than my parents to teach me these things and if I do, I'll go see a counselor who has a degree and knows what they're doing.


I sort of feel bad for saying this despite it being my opinions because I know personally and have seen what this kind of talk does to a devout Christian. I'm really not trying to insult you or your religion, I'm really sorry if it feels like that or if you feel a little pissed off but I truly believe that this is the true nature of Christianity :). It's clear by all the religious crusades throughout history, the people who have died for speaking against it, those who are discriminated against because of it etc. the list just goes on and on...

It's just an opinion, really...

When I talk like this with my mother, she looses it.

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@piratequeen369

I'm writing from my phone and this thing doesn't let me quote you >_< I just wanted to say that I kind of understand how you feel. I don't go to church because of the hypocrisy of the people who attend to church or the way they twist the Bible. Have you read the Bible by yourself without listening to a pastor? I did this and it opened my eyes to many things.

One thing I realized is that God is not asking us to be perfect. He knows that our bodies are sinful so we are meant to fall anytime soon ex: David killed a man because he lusted after his woman and wanted her for himself, Abraham got drunk, Moses lost his temper, Jonah got mad at God for not killing some people and he tried to avoid his command at first ....they all were dear people to God and they all were forgiven. God says that he sees our hearts and not our actions. This is why the thief on the cross was forgiven or the prostitute was given a second chance. He only asks us to love him and love one another. Just lead a good life and if you fall stand up no matter what. Nobody says you have to be perfect.

Also, Christians are not the only ones who want to be happy, be nice or have peace. Everyone wants those things. Some people have everything and yet they are not happy or at peace... why? we are never content with what we have since we always want more. The Bible is full of wars, sadness and pain...have you read what the apostles went through because of their beliefs? Jonathan's death still makes me cry. Paul hated Christians and he used to persecute them until God touched his heart and he changed. My point is that no matter what, God is the one who judges and forgives. Don't let others tell you how to feel or act, you have to do it from your heart or else...you would be like the Pharisees (they were like the Christians or Catholic leaders of that time. They tried to follow every rule and be perfect but what Jesus said to them? "Hypocrites! get away from me! you're of the devil").
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Posted 1/7/15 , edited 1/7/15

piratequeen369 wrote:



A traditional Roman Catholic one.

What's the point of striving to be perfect if you never can be? I feel that I'm a nice enough person, I just prefer to be nice from the bottom of my heart not because I feel ordered to.

"If I steal, lust, hate, murder etc (I don't do the steal or murder thing, for the record), we are supposed to feel remorse and repent":

Oh, thanks for telling me, I totally thought you were a thief and a murderer, that's good news! ;)

I think all our feelings, even hate, are necessary, we emotions so that we make better decisions and have better judgement about things, that much is obvious.

They say that's what Christianity is about and sure that's one aspect of it but Christianity focuses too much on that as if we don't have the ability to do improve ourselves without it, life is already doing that. There's more to life than that: having fun, experiencing new things etc. When you're doing things like that you learn along the way anyway, I dislike the phrase, "live your life in the image of God" because life doesn't only consist of doing good deeds, a life like that doesn't exist. Life is being an asshole, making mistakes, sometimes being nice, sometimes having compassion, having an adventure, falling out with friends, sometimes hating people, getting hurt, hurting others etc. So it seems like the church is lying. Don't you think the church's obsession with self-improvement when not everybody needs self-improvement is a bit peculiar? Christianity just targets that because it touches at people's insecurities and tugs at people's hearts.

Happiness can't exist without us knowing sadness. I'm only happy because I know what being sad feels like, I know the feeling I have now is better than sadness. To deem something pleasant, you have to be informed about the unpleasant. To live a happy life where everyone is nice and you know nothing of sadness and pain? You're not happy, you're just an ignorant, mindless puppet. I don't mean to say that in a harsh way, nor am I saying you are a puppet but if that's the fantasy you dream, in that dream, that's all you will be. So why does God and the church like to put this fantasy in our heads? Hmmm, well, secretly we all want it don't we? Peace... no Islamic extremist bombings or war between neighbouring countries to be heard of when we switch on the news - that would be so nice, we all think it so the church takes advantage of that to control us.

Sorry, I think I went a bit off topic here but do you see what I mean? I don't need more than my parents to teach me these things and if I do, I'll go see a counselor who has a degree and knows what they're doing.

I was a good guesser, you do go to a "high" church. Roman Catholicism has a different focus than some other denominations. But, we don't need to go into that much detail at the moment.

As a Christian, I believe we all exist in the image of God. All humans are. Period. It's not about merely living out that way or self help or trying to better yourself. You already are in the image of God. How well you reflect that is more the question. Since Adam on down, we've sinned and that original image has become warped. We all notice it in how the world is imperfect, people are imperfect, and there's awful things going on in the world.

Life doesn't only consist of doing good deeds for us to resemble the image of God. God got angry. Jesus got angry. Jesus flipped over temple tables and yelled at criminals in the temple complex. The difference between anger for the sake of anger and how God or Jesus responded is the reason behind the anger. Are you angry because someone annoys you? Or are you angry because of some unrighteousness in the world? Are you angry because a person has done something evil? Or are you angry because someone has done something which bothers you. I don't think Christianity is obsessed with self-improvement. Then again, I'm not Roman Catholic, so I don't know enough about the focus within their church. I'm Southern Baptist. That said, we all can use some kind of improvement. As you & I both seem to agree, no one is perfect - so of course there's room to improve yourself.

Happiness and sadness don't exist in a vacuum. Not sure what you are getting at with the comment about happiness and sadness. Of course sadness is a part of life. The Bible is very clear that this is the case. Christ said the rain falls on the just and the unjust alike, the sun rises on the just and unjust as well. We all feel pain, we all encounter sadness. I know a lot of Christians. None of them live perfect lives, none of them have no sadness. We all struggle. We all have hardships. We all have difficulties. We all feel pain. It does make the happy times sweeter, the comparison to the painful times. The terror of my wife being in the hospital for 3 weeks with scary high blood pressure ended with the birth of our first born son. Of course we all want peace on Earth. Of course we all want a life that's only happiness. But that doesn't happen. The Bible actually promises your life will be difficult. Like, a number of different times. Jesus promises it, the Epistles of Paul promise it, etc. Not just that it might be difficult, but that it will be. In fact, Jesus said that if you follow Him - expect others to hate you. If they hated Him, He said, they'll hate you. If some brand of Christianity is promising a happy life filled with no sorrow, no pain, no difficulty - it's not Christianity and that person is selling you something...

I sort of feel bad for saying this despite it being my opinions because I know personally and have seen what this kind of talk does to a devout Christian. I'm really not trying to insult you or your religion, I'm really sorry if it feels like that or if you feel a little pissed off but I truly believe that this is the true nature of Christianity :). It's clear by all the religious crusades throughout history, the people who have died for speaking against it, those who are discriminated against because of it etc. the list just goes on and on...

It's just an opinion, really...

When I talk like this with my mother, she looses it.


I neither hate you, nor am mad at you. I don't take what you're saying as an insult. I just think you're incorrect in your assessment of Christianity. Some people don't like to talk with people with different views, they feel threatened. I don't.
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DarksirenxX wrote:


piratequeen369 wrote:

I was a Christian until recently, I have an argument for everything you said. Christianity is about faith not bloody logic. I can't be bothered to type it all out at the moment, if someone replies back to me later on when I'm not studying for exams (even though now I'm just procrastinating), I'll write up my answers :)


just having faith in something that makes no sense at all? nope i don't really intend to do that. would you trust an accountant to manage your funds if he couldn't do multiplication and division. would you go to a surgeon who didn't pass all his medical exams? i believe it should be the same with faith. don't have faith just because you are told to. have faith in something you have taken the time to fully understand and find to be logical. Also hearing another persons point of view always makes your vision twice as broad. its better in my mind to understand something from more angles than my own.


Because it's allegorical dude.. allegorical

It's like bahamut and tiamat and marduk. Or Kali springing forth from Shiva. Or Odin hanging for three days.

The Gnostics did this a lot too. They had wild and fantastical stories while holding faith in an knowable, incomprehensible, indescribable god. (orten times borrowing from the concepts of a judeo-christian god).

It's not meant to be truthful, just illustrative in a metaphorical way of a truth. Like the forbidden fruit. It wasn't that adam and eve hadn't done things prior that were sinful. In fact, they were like any other animal. It was once they ate from the tree of knowledge that they gained self awareness and understanding of morality, and then they were aware of their sins (and thus began to cover themselves as nudity was their first recognized "sin"). Once sin was realized, they could no longer go back to their blissful ignorance (and innocence), which the Garden of Eden symbolized. They, instead, were forced to set out along the difficult and painful path of knowledge.(yet they also were still masters of the earth).

As for incest, it happened. It wasn't the most common thing, and it happened around the world. I'm not sure it was every encouraged or completely ok. I just don't think people cared or were as purient about it as now. (and I'm not saying that incest is good. It's just objectively looking at history, it was ok before and now isn't, thank god).

As for "perfectly ok children", incest isn't something that you end up screwing your sister, and you get malformed children with three hands and six eyes. It's not good genetically, but it's more of a cumulative, generational thing. You mate with your sister, get two children, then they mate, and two children, and so on and so on.. eventually, yes, the genetic information is going to get REALLY screwed up. BUT, i'm sure if you look back on anyone's family tree far enough, you'll find it happens.
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