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Gods Will and Free Will
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
Wha....its duplicate. I'm pretty sure you had also participated in the other discussions regarding free will, destiny, fate, etc. Why make a similar thread?
Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
Well as I'm 100% atheist I don't believe in fate or destiny either. We have the ability to make our own choices. As you say God cannot be all knowing if we have free will, and we cannot have free will if God is all knowing. Hence as God does not exist we have free will. While this may be similar to another thread this one is directly challenging God so I don't think it should be locked (course I have no say but hey)
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
Maybe we only have free will because we don't know God's will? I just think that we all make our own paths but it all leads to the same end. How does God being all knowing take away our ability to choose?
Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
Woohoo, magnus...nice nice..
Yes, I have a similar opinion on that. Monotheistic believers always come up with the free will argument, and at the same time they say that God has a plan for everyone of us, and that he is all knowing. But hey, that means that he wants me to be a non-believer Image . So believers stop trying to convert me, it's God's plan. Respect his plans for me Image
In the end God, you are more evil than I thought *joins Lucifer's side*, you showed us your nice side, and hid the evil side. You accused Lucifer to be the evilness in itself, and that he is causing all this harms to us and this world, but in the end, from where did the devil come from? He was part of you, he was you.
All this miserable plans you have for us, why do you need to have plans for us? Why are there people who have more luck than others? Why are there such atrocious things happening in this world?
If you know it all, then why did you make us in the first place? Why are you saying that there is free will, when there is not?
And why did you send Archangel Gabriel three times to Earth? Did you formulate your ideology wrongly when you send the message to the Jews? So you needed to make it all good again, and correct your fault, and then you sent Gabriel again, and Christianity popped up on the surface of this world. Wait, Gabriel is at fault now, he didn't deliver your message correctly, and so it happens that he had to come again to us, and Islam popped up...woohoo..But you know, I think you should send a new message...cuz Islam utterly fails...and this time it would be nice if you would send an other angel...cuz Gabriel seems to have dementia .... Image
Luckily I am not part of any of this optimistic(=naive) sects....lucky me...God was so kind to me Image
In the end this monotheistic believers are all oxymorons(=pointedly foolish).


bluxberry wrote:
I just think that we all make our own paths but it all leads to the same end.

Death? Oh yes, that's something that all of us will attain in the end.

Maybe we only have free will because we don't know God's will?

It is said that God has plans for every single being in this world, but how can we possibly fulfill it's purpose if we don't know God's will? Well, that could also be a reference to Plato's idea "Allegory of the Cave", where we are supposed to find/remind/help remember our soul's purpose. Something that is almost impossible to accomplish, nowadays anyways, cuz we don't have time left for that(every day's stress).

How does God being all knowing take away our ability to choose?

I guess this is referring to the fact that God knows every step that we are doing before we even move the foot. Every single mistake, thing we do in our life seems to be part of the Godly plan, which means that everything we are doing was predestined for us. Absolute destiny. And since God is never officially interfering with our life, it gives us an illusion of having a free will, but in the end this was all meant to inevitably happen. Which makes the idea of free will nonsense..Or something like that

Flo~
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:


bluxberry wrote:

Maybe we only have free will because we don't know God's will? I just think that we all make our own paths but it all leads to the same end. How does God being all knowing take away our ability to choose?


Let us say god created the universe and set it into motion. Since he knows what the result of creating it that way will be it means that is what he wants to happen. Think of it like a chain of dominoes. Since he set things up to occur this way none of us have the ability to choose. If we do most things based upon our minds which are a product of our experiences then free will can not exist. Since god set things up to cause us to develop the mind we have. In that sense if god has a plan it is impossible to defy it.


So what you are saying is that if everything is exactly as God planned it to be then free will is an illusion because true freewill can only exist if we are able to do something that God never planned for us to do?

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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
I think that God has a plan for us, but we also have free will. I think God plans for each of us to have a good life but its up to us to make the right choices. For an example, i'll say that our lives are like those "choose your own ending" books. You have to make the right choices to reach the happy ending but if you make a wrong choice you'll end up with a bad ending.
If what we have been told to believe is true, then the devil also exists. The devil is supposed to influence you to making the wrong choice and if you succumb to his influence then you'll be on the wrong path. Once you get on the wrong path there may not be a way to get back on the path God originally set for you.
Oh, and there's no way for you to know how much each experience impacts your future.
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
but if god has this plan wouldnt the apperence of the devil and bad choices already be in his game book well i dont believe in god either way becuz of all the inconsistances such as this
Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08

inuyashafann12345 wrote:

but if god has this plan wouldnt the apperence of the devil and bad choices already be in his game book well i dont believe in god either way becuz of all the inconsistances such as this


Well that's the point. This means that God is totally aware of our bad choices and of the bad things, and he is letting them happen.

note wrote:

I think that God has a plan for us, but we also have free will. I think God plans for each of us to have a good life but its up to us to make the right choices. For an example, i'll say that our lives are like those "choose your own ending" books. You have to make the right choices to reach the happy ending but if you make a wrong choice you'll end up with a bad ending.
If what we have been told to believe is true, then the devil also exists. The devil is supposed to influence you to making the wrong choice and if you succumb to his influence then you'll be on the wrong path. Once you get on the wrong path there may not be a way to get back on the path God originally set for you.
Oh, and there's no way for you to know how much each experience impacts your future.


What you are saying is almost impossible, how are we supposed to know what choice is the right one, and if the devil is influencing us, this will only decrease our possible chance to follow the right path, which means that this is nonsense, or is God really that crazy?

Flo~
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
and also who is to say what is a bad or good choice say u killed someone most ppl would see that as a bad thing but what if that action was something that saved the world would it still be a bad thing,its the same for makign good choices .
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08

inuyashafann12345 wrote:

and also who is to say what is a bad or good choice say u killed someone most ppl would see that as a bad thing but what if that action was something that saved the world would it still be a bad thing,its the same for makign good choices .


Murder is murder, you can't sugarcoat it. People don't have the right to decide who deserves to live or die. No matter what a person has done or plans to do, killing them is a sin, and therefore wrong.


MidnightZorya wrote:

What you are saying is almost impossible, how are we supposed to know what choice is the right one, and if the devil is influencing us, this will only decrease our possible chance to follow the right path, which means that this is nonsense, or is God really that crazy?

Flo~


Most people look in the bible for pointers.Also it’s possible that God has faith that we will make the right choices, but we don't. Hasn't anyone ever let you down before? For example, you leave town to visit a relative, but your boyfriend stays home. While you're gone he's likely to meet women, but you trust him not to cheat on you. You believe that he will do the right thing, whether he does is his choice

Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08

note wrote:
Most people look in the bible for pointers.Also it’s possible that God has faith that we will make the right choices, but we don't. Hasn't anyone ever let you down before? For example, you leave town to visit a relative, but your boyfriend stays home. While you're gone he's likely to meet women, but you trust him not to cheat on you. You believe that he will do the right thing, whether he does is his choice


Good argument, but that would kill the idea of a godly plan. Or does that mean that we were predestined to make this choices? Bad or good.

Murder is murder, you can't sugarcoat it. People don't have the right to decide who deserves to live or die. No matter what a person has done or plans to do, killing them is a sin, and therefore wrong.


Of course killing someone is bad, but in self-defense..sometimes there is no other choice left if you want to survive. That would be self-destructive if we wouldn't eliminate potential danger, since we all follow our strong survival instinct. It is to kill or getting killed. In such a situation, sin or not, I would choose to kill, to survive.
And if people don't have the right to choose if someone deserves to die or not, then where is our free will?
Since God is trusting us to make the right choices, he will certainly trust us when it comes to such a decision. If killing a murderer will save future victims, then it can only be good. We all have a sense of morality, some have it more and some less.

Flo~
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
im 100.1percent sure theres no god.... if there is... y i never c him.... therefore theres no god's will
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
god's plan is for u go n get molest by a priest...........some plan that is
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
if you believe that everything you do is god's will. i don't think you would even have a free will to start this topic or even question his 'will.'
well im atheist, so don't shouldn't take me too seriously.
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