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Gods Will and Free Will
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
For what I remember, God has a plan but it's your choice to follow it. But then there's a devil who'll try to lead you to do bad things (ex. murder, adultery, stealing), and get you off the path of doing the right thing. God doesn't do anything about it because He wants people to believe in Him without Him forcing them too.

That's just what I learned in church.
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:


zombiexmylove wrote:

For what I remember, God has a plan but it's your choice to follow it. But then there's a devil who'll try to lead you to do bad things (ex. murder, adultery, stealing), and get you off the path of doing the right thing. God doesn't do anything about it because He wants people to believe in Him without Him forcing them too.

That's just what I learned in church.

Again god must have created the devil knowing he would lead us astray. Therefore it is gods will for us to be led astray . If god created the universe he has again made our choices for us. This is because he created the universe to play out this way. He has caused me not to believe in him if he is real. I fail to say how an all knowing being could not alter the universe at its creation so that I would not turn out as one of the faithful.

Also think of people raised religious. There is a far greater chance of there being so themselves. Are not those brought up as say Shintoist still just as damned as someone leaving the church as an adult? Did god not choose one for salvation and one for damnation?



First, that's just what church tells me, kay? It's not my opinion. And second, go ask a priest about it if it's really bothering you (then again, they'll just say "God works in mysterious ways")
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76 / F / 妙境 «« Changmin's ;;
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:


zombiexmylove wrote:


magnus102 wrote:


zombiexmylove wrote:

For what I remember, God has a plan but it's your choice to follow it. But then there's a devil who'll try to lead you to do bad things (ex. murder, adultery, stealing), and get you off the path of doing the right thing. God doesn't do anything about it because He wants people to believe in Him without Him forcing them too.

That's just what I learned in church.

Again god must have created the devil knowing he would lead us astray. Therefore it is gods will for us to be led astray . If god created the universe he has again made our choices for us. This is because he created the universe to play out this way. He has caused me not to believe in him if he is real. I fail to say how an all knowing being could not alter the universe at its creation so that I would not turn out as one of the faithful.

Also think of people raised religious. There is a far greater chance of there being so themselves. Are not those brought up as say Shintoist still just as damned as someone leaving the church as an adult? Did god not choose one for salvation and one for damnation?



First, that's just what church tells me, kay? It's not my opinion. And second, go ask a priest about it if it's really bothering you (then again, they'll just say "God works in mysterious ways")

It does not bother me as I am an atheist. Your right thats what a priest would likely say though. Lulz



I know from experience. :P

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76 / F / 妙境 «« Changmin's ;;
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:


zombiexmylove wrote:


magnus102 wrote:


zombiexmylove wrote:


magnus102 wrote:


zombiexmylove wrote:

For what I remember, God has a plan but it's your choice to follow it. But then there's a devil who'll try to lead you to do bad things (ex. murder, adultery, stealing), and get you off the path of doing the right thing. God doesn't do anything about it because He wants people to believe in Him without Him forcing them too.

That's just what I learned in church.

Again god must have created the devil knowing he would lead us astray. Therefore it is gods will for us to be led astray . If god created the universe he has again made our choices for us. This is because he created the universe to play out this way. He has caused me not to believe in him if he is real. I fail to say how an all knowing being could not alter the universe at its creation so that I would not turn out as one of the faithful.

Also think of people raised religious. There is a far greater chance of there being so themselves. Are not those brought up as say Shintoist still just as damned as someone leaving the church as an adult? Did god not choose one for salvation and one for damnation?



First, that's just what church tells me, kay? It's not my opinion. And second, go ask a priest about it if it's really bothering you (then again, they'll just say "God works in mysterious ways")

It does not bother me as I am an atheist. Your right thats what a priest would likely say though. Lulz



I know from experience. :P



Sorry that you had to go through that! lol


Thanks for the condolences. x]

Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
If god does truly exist and he is the all knowing being then for humans there is no such thing as "free will" Go ahead and try to prove that wrong.

I wish you luck on that.

Trevor (OP)
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Posted 2/3/08 , edited 4/18/08
Just because u know something is gonna happen doesn't mean you don't have a say in it.

If two people saw a $100 bill on the ground both of them know that the other will take it. But they can choose whether to take it or not.
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Posted 2/4/08 , edited 4/18/08

bluxberry wrote:

Maybe we only have free will because we don't know God's will? I just think that we all make our own paths but it all leads to the same end. How does God being all knowing take away our ability to choose?


you sir are dumb. in the bible it states that god has a plan and if so we have no free will and following that line then could not possibly have emotions and is following any logic whatsoever you can show the bible as a stupid mix of drunken idiocy and other crap
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26 / F / Well, Who knows?...
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Posted 2/4/08 , edited 4/18/08

God is but a word, a figure made by humanity to explain their existance. So one can say that God created humanity to sustain him/her/itself while humanity created God to sustain his or her existance. Since humans created words, the word "God" appeared.

There is no such thing as free will, yet there is. Just as one can believe a lie is the truth, yet too, a truth can be a lie. Perharps, just once, God did continue to exist in a physical form because the will of humanity brought him/her/itself here. Thus, creating the bibles etc etc. Miracles don't occur for free, neither is it coincidence. It appear because it was willed to existed, thus the same can be said of God.

There cannot be Fate without Destiny, yet there will not be Destiny without Fate. No Beginning without Endings, no Life without Death. All of them are one but the same, yet different at all times. Humanity treated the Darkness as the Evil ones, and the Light as the Almighty. Yet part of them believed that the Darkness is the Almighty, and the Light the Evil ones. Aren't they but one of the same?

The will of God is the will of Humanity, for they are the same. They existed as words. That, which is used for communication, to show existance, history and even the future.

Therefore~ Nuff said.
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Posted 2/4/08 , edited 4/18/08
Well, if God is supposed to be the embodiment of perfection, then surely he is not bound by what humans are. For us, there are constraints of place and time, but for God, he trascends that. Therefore for us there is neccessarily such a thing as a 'future' but this is not so for God. Therefore I don't think that the word 'predestination' applies to God. Its quite a paradox, because its hard to understand perfection, yet if we infuse God with human-like qualities to make him more understandable, then, God wouldn't be so perfect after all.

I think God made us with intellect and free will. If he wanted entities without free will He already had created the angels. The angels succumb to His will and do whatever He wants them to, therefore they do not commit any wrong doings. Humans, on the other hand, I believe, have a freedom of choice. Its not to say that God just leaves us to be and does not have a 'plan' for us. I think he puts obstacles along the way and see how we react to such obstacles. Say for example, we failed in doing something we had tried so hard to achieve. Whether we give up or not, whether we blame God or not, whatever we do then, that, I believe, stems from our own intellect and our own ability to choose to do whatever we want from that point on. Similarly,when opportunities present themselves to us, how we react to such things is by our own choice.

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Posted 2/4/08 , edited 4/18/08

sabakukyuu7 wrote:

Well, if God is supposed to be the embodiment of perfection, then surely he is not bound by what humans are. For us, there are constraints of place and time, but for God, he trascends that. Therefore for us there is neccessarily such a thing as a 'future' but this is not so for God. Therefore I don't think that the word 'predestination' applies to God. Its quite a paradox, because its hard to understand perfection, yet if we infuse God with human-like qualities to make him more understandable, then, God wouldn't be so perfect after all.

I think God made us with intellect and free will. If he wanted entities without free will He already had created the angels. The angels succumb to His will and do whatever He wants them to, therefore they do not commit any wrong doings. Humans, on the other hand, I believe, have a freedom of choice. Its not to say that God just leaves us to be and does not have a 'plan' for us. I think he puts obstacles along the way and see how we react to such obstacles. Say for example, we failed in doing something we had tried so hard to achieve. Whether we give up or not, whether we blame God or not, whatever we do then, that, I believe, stems from our own intellect and our own ability to choose to do whatever we want from that point on. Similarly,when opportunities present themselves to us, how we react to such things is by our own choice.



read the bible prove yourself wrong and be quiet
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Posted 2/4/08 , edited 4/18/08
God gave us free will. If you surrender your life to God, that's the only time He can control your life.
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26 / F / Well, Who knows?...
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Posted 2/4/08 , edited 4/18/08

BOYVIRO666, thou are not supposed to beat down others but crush them with proofs XD?
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Posted 2/4/08 , edited 4/18/08

renako wrote:


BOYVIRO666, thou are not supposed to beat down others but crush them with proofs XD?


proof is the anathema of faith and without faith stupid people would drink the blue stuff under the sink
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Posted 2/4/08 , edited 4/18/08

Ah, good point =3 But next time, just copy out the text and paste it on. Teh moddies might complain, cause it's almost equivalant to flaming (Almost)
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Posted 2/4/08 , edited 4/18/08
oh ok one sec ill post a few now
Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)



So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.



The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."



Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

i think this one is funny
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Posted 2/4/08 , edited 4/18/08

BOYVIRO666 wrote:


sabakukyuu7 wrote:

Well, if God is supposed to be the embodiment of perfection, then surely he is not bound by what humans are. For us, there are constraints of place and time, but for God, he trascends that. Therefore for us there is neccessarily such a thing as a 'future' but this is not so for God. Therefore I don't think that the word 'predestination' applies to God. Its quite a paradox, because its hard to understand perfection, yet if we infuse God with human-like qualities to make him more understandable, then, God wouldn't be so perfect after all.

I think God made us with intellect and free will. If he wanted entities without free will He already had created the angels. The angels succumb to His will and do whatever He wants them to, therefore they do not commit any wrong doings. Humans, on the other hand, I believe, have a freedom of choice. Its not to say that God just leaves us to be and does not have a 'plan' for us. I think he puts obstacles along the way and see how we react to such obstacles. Say for example, we failed in doing something we had tried so hard to achieve. Whether we give up or not, whether we blame God or not, whatever we do then, that, I believe, stems from our own intellect and our own ability to choose to do whatever we want from that point on. Similarly,when opportunities present themselves to us, how we react to such things is by our own choice.



read the bible prove yourself wrong and be quiet


I admit I haven't read the bible, because I am not a Christian therefore I do not suscribe to what the Bible says. It is God, from my personal opinion. After all, forums are all about opinions, is it not?
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