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Post Reply The most important message for humanity...
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25 / M / New Gridania / H...
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Posted 1/14/15

pandrasb wrote:

The overpopulation myth? Alarmist alert


When the Earth goes boom in the future or becomes uninhabitable....

Anime and all of its brethren will thrive.

Heck what if we all mutate into animated people due to the environment. Oh man O.o
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It doesn't matter.
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Posted 1/14/15
I want to put op in a bunker under ground so he can emerge years later as a butterfly.
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24 / M / UK
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Posted 1/14/15

DesuMaiden wrote:

I can't believe you folks are dumb enough to propose that infinite consumption and infinite population growth is possible on a finite planet. We are already near peak population. And no we can't keep doubling population. The overpopulation is a myth website is full of shit and misinformation. They don't know anything. They are full of shit.

.


It doesn't particularly matter what we as humans do anyway. Everything you've said that could happen, would happen regardless of whether we were even on the planet...
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Posted 1/14/15
The correct answer is to remove thyself from the cycle of life.

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21 / M / McDonough
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Posted 1/14/15
Eh, I came here for anime not politics but I suppose I got drug into this one... Welp, here we go.

Actually, no, *deletes everything I wrote* I'm not getting into this tonight, I'll just leave it at this.


Humans will survive, humans will thrive, Humans will explore, and Humans will prosper. With or without the Earth, Humans will survive.
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Posted 1/14/15
There's an easy solution to this problem, and it's conveniently located right beneath terra firma. Only issue is working out how to mix it into the atmosphere accurately and completely enough to sanitize the correct locations while leaving others untouched.
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31 / M / Chicago
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Posted 1/14/15
The OP gave me a good laugh tonight. Thanks!
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26 / M / In a dumpster wit...
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Posted 1/14/15
My first thought is "Understandable why you'd say this".

My second thought is "ignorance".

We don't even understand 100% of our planets inner workings. For all we know, leave the planet as a species, come back in about 300 years, and it would probably have healed itself of it's resources like a human healing it's body. Maybe even in 300 years of no human interference it could have healed 75% of it'self. We don't even undeniably understand 20% of the entire damn universe. Barely even 2%.


We don't even know if the planet has a form of sentience similar to ourselves. Maybe lacking a mouth. But similar. Maybe it has a last resort where it goes into overdrive and heals faster than it can be destroyed to where it overruns all the environments with pure green life and ice. Maybe it wastes a lot of energy. But it might just give it the time to recover that energy. For all we know as an ignorant human race, the planet may be a deity with supernatural power beyond our understanding.
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26 / M
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Posted 1/14/15
what do you actually mean by "heal"

mass that has been converted to energy will never return, the universe forbids it.
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25 / M
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Posted 1/14/15

DesuMaiden wrote:

I can't believe you folks are dumb enough to propose that infinite consumption and infinite population growth is possible on a finite planet. We are already near peak population. And no we can't keep doubling population. The overpopulation is a myth website is full of shit and misinformation. They don't know anything. They are full of shit.

There is plenty of space on this planet. Yes, but there certainly isn't enough resources for any more doublings of the human population. Human population cannot double again. And even if it did double, we would have a die off. That's the case with all populations. No population infinitely grows forever. There is no case where any population (be it bacteria in a petri dish or caribou on an Arctic island) encounters favorable circumstances and grows in a vertical line without an immediate crash downwards. It is a law. It is a law as fundamental as gravity. It is a law as fundamental as thermodynamics.

Our population has been growing in a vertical line for the past 100 years. We shot up from 1.6 billion to 7.2 billion largely because of oil. And this isn't sustainable. This vertical growth in population can't go on forever. And if it does continue, there will be an inevitable collapse in the population because that's what happens to all species that go into overshoot in population. Let me repeat this...no amount of human ingenuity and technology can possibly overturn the laws of nature. Populations in overshoot always crash and die off afterwards.

Keep on doubling the population and see where that brings you. Hint. It will destroy the human race. Doomsayers were right the whole time. Just because the collapse of industrial civilization hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it will never happen. The signs of collapse are all around you.

Doubling the population, if that is even possible, will cause the population to go into a die off mode because the population overshot its carrying capacity. We are already exceeding our carrying capacity, and if we continue to increase population, the consequences will be dire. As in a huge die off will occur because that's just the law of nature that no amount of human technology and ingenuity can overcome.


I wish you would stop saying "as fundamental is gravity and thermodynamics". That statement is ironic in itself.

And why are you stating the obvious, thinking you are some sort of hotshot? No fucking shit, if the population doubled we'd have a hard time keeping up with resources. Thank you captain obvious.

It is not a law that the human race will simply "die off" if we get to a certain point of over population. NEW and I state again, NEW technologies are being researched at all times to counter balance everything you are saying because people are not idiots, and they know that overpopulation is a thing. You don't know what these technologies will bring, and lets face it, they may be able to literally make your whole post look like a big joke in the future. You have NO IDEA what new technology is going to bring, so how can you make these accusations? You can't.

The case with "all populations"? For you to even compare any population to ever exist on earth, to that of the human race in this context is absolutely idiotic.

No amount of human ingenuity eh? Yeah, that has been said again and again about countless things, and proven wrong again and again. These laws of nature you're talking about, which ones are they exactly? I would like to see a list of all these laws of nature that are going to undoubtedly destroy humanity in the context you are referring so I can further evaluate exactly what the fuck you're talking about.
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Posted 1/14/15

BlueOni wrote:


gnxgen1 wrote:

Lmao wish I lived and died in nomadic or agrarian society, life would have been way simpler. I see no good end for our kind. I feel bad for you OP, expressing your opinion on here is going to fall on deaf ears. No one cares, and thats the problem. As long as the financial sector, MNC's and governments control anything it will be a long time before the sedated, ignorant collective of society will rise up to counter it.


I've proposed emphasizing research to improve the efficiency/reuse of resources in industrial processes, making products which are easier to recycle and reuse, legislation which limits negative externalities, and other such practical measures. What exactly is your plan, here, Mr. Agrarian? Force everyone in cities to return to the countryside to work fields and live a farmer's life? Abandon modern medicine in favor of holistic methods using herbs grown in gardens instead of manufactured drugs? Cambodia would like a word.


Lol. I said I wished I lived then so my brain wouldn't constantly be thinking about the state of today. Not that everyone should go back to it. You make some great points, I think the problem is awareness like I stated earlier. Recycling in its current state does not produce as much of the original content. Legislation will always be bogged down by bureaucratic nonsense. As long as the mantra of small government big business remains all the deregulation will favor those MNCs setting up EPZs in Cambodia. Hope you don't think I was making a sweeping generalization of everyone on here. It's just that nobody cares or is willing to struggle to create change. I have been learning this stuff and I legitimately do not know what to do, I am only one guy.
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31 / M / L'Étoile du Nord,...
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Posted 1/14/15

Bluearmy wrote:
Haha what if we reincarnate every few generations. That would def put a spin on things.

Interesting, though how would we know?
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26 / M / Waterloo, Ontario
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Posted 1/14/15

Arbitrator wrote:

true no population has ever doubled consistently for such a long period of time, but there is also no other species that has a rational mind. I'm not too concerned with all this mumbo jumbo. What I do now is that human ingenuity is amazing and has made the impossible possible, e.g. air travel, space travel, nuclear energy etc. I will not be amazed if we can somehow create enough resources through the use of technology.


No amount of technology and human ingenuity can possibly over turn the laws of nature. It doesn't matter how much technology and ingenuity you have if you are running out of essential natural resources. We are running out of and short on every single essential natural resource. Ranging from oil, natural gas, coal, Rare Earth Metals, iron, arable land, water, wood, phosphorus, uranium, fish and etc. We can't innovate our way out of a general resource shortage of everything.

For example, if we run out of silicon, we can't make anymore computers and other electronic devices. And yes, we are running out of silicon because silicon is a nonrenewable resource. And there are too many people using silicon. We are running out of Rare Earth Metals (REM). Most REM are mined from China. China will soon restrict exports of REM, in order to use the REM to develop their own economy. That means the rest of the world gets less REM to develop their economies. This means North America and Europe will have a shortage of REM. Without REM, we can't make computers, wind turbines, solar panels, cellphones and countless other advanced computerized technologies.

Yes, we can recycle REM and other nonrenewable resources, but you always lose some of the original material in the process of recycling. You cannot recycle the whole product and reuse everything that's being recycled. Recycling, in other words, is not 100% inefficient, and it never will be.

If we keep on overusing the world's resources, we will eventually run out of everything. And we would have to regress back to the middle ages or stone age. If we keep on doubling population, we will run out of every essential resource very quickly. We can't keep on doubling consumption and population if we are to survive as a species on this planet.

Yes, there is a possibility we might discover space travel and travel to other planets in the universe. But we will probably end up destroying ourselves before we develop that technology if we keep on infinitely growing consumption and population.

The bottom line is that we live in an infinite growth paradigm, like Michael Ruppert said. This infinite growth paradigm demands infinite growth in consumption and population, which isn't possible on a finite planet. Let me show you a graph of human population again.



Our population was only around 200 million people during the peak of the Roman Empire at around 1 AD. Our population doubles to about 400 million by around 1200 and 1300 AD. The population dips down to 300 million due to the Bubonic plague killing millions of people in Europe and Asia. And then fast forward to the beginning of the Industrial Revolution in the early 19th century, our population during the next few hundred years grows from 300 million to about 1 billion people in 1804. And then the population growth rate increases, so we reach 1.6 billion at 1900. And then as oil became ubiquitous, the population shoots up from 1.6 billion in 1900 to over 7.2 billion in 2014.

Our population grew by over 35 times during the past 2000 years from 200 million to 7,200 million (or 7.2 billion). Let me show you this graph of human population again.



The human population is flat throughout most of human history. Throughout most of recorded human history, the population was well under 1 billion people. Yes, the human population has been growing throughout human history before the Industrial Revolution, but it was growing at a very slow rate compared to the last 100 and 200 years.

There was probably only 4 to 5 million people on Earth in 8000 BC and we grew from that to 200 million in 1 AD. But it was only during the past 114 years our population has been growing in a vertical line, meaning extremely rapid abnormal growth rates. We can't keep on growing population in a vertical line. Eventually population needs to flatten out again.

If we keep on growing population in a vertical line, we will exceed the carrying capacity of the Earth. And then famine, war and disease will cause the population to rapidly drop to a much lower level. This happens with every species (be it bacteria in a petri dish or caribou on an Arctic island) where a species encounters favorable circumstances and experiences rapid vertical growth in population. And then the population crashes to a much lower level. Humans are not exempt for the same law of nature as all other species. This is a law as fundamental as gravity and thermodynamics.

Let me show you a classic example of a population boom and bust. It is the reindeer of St Matthew Island. There was an Arctic island where reindeer were introduced to. There were 29 reindeer (24 females, 5 males) introduced to the island in 1944. There were no natural predators and plentiful food on that island for the reindeer, so the reindeer population started to rapidly grow. Eventually the population of reindeer reached over 6000 on the island by 1963. And then the population of reindeer crashed to only 42 reindeer within 1 year because the reindeer were overgrazing their island of all of the lichen they depended on for food.

Look at this graph to see how the reindeer population exploded from 29 reindeer to over 6000 reindeer. And then the population experienced a die-off and decreased to only 42 reindeer in only 1 year.



What does the graph of reindeer population on St Matthew Island resemble? The answer is the graph of human population throughout human history. Human population is experiencing the same rapid vertical growth as the reindeer population on St Matthew Island during the past 100 to 200 years. Humans are no different from reindeer. Once we deplete all of the natural resources that are essential for our survival, our population will also experience a massive die-off like the reindeer population on St Matthew Island.

So is the world overpopulated? Yes, because we are running out of every essential natural resource since there are too many humans using them. The world population today is MUCH larger than it was throughout most of recorded history from the Roman times. We can't keep on growing population at 1% per year because we will have over a trillion people within another 500 years if we did that.

The bottom line is infinite growth is not possible on a finite planet. Infinite growth in population and consumption is not possible on a finite planet. Watch this video to show you why exponential growth is such a powerful force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

Exponential growth is probably the most powerful force in the universe, as Albert Einstein once said.
Posted 1/14/15 , edited 1/14/15
While it is true that anything can happen, the probability of someone predicting precisely when one scenario can occur, and exactly how, with a plethora of other possibilities, and without sufficient evidence( and there isn't ), like all fortune telling and doomsayers seems destined to be met with justifiable skepticism. Its also obviously not the most pleasant scenario for a streaming community. But it could happen I suppose. So can a solar flare, a viral pandemic, or even a rogue planet or asteroid wiping out all life on the planet. EMPs(electromagnetic pulse) and population reduction in the event of thermonuclear war/holocaust/MAD(mutually assured destruction), maybe. In any great catastrophe our progress as a species would likely be set back at least temporarily to some degree all the same, and even just in the right key areas, like tokyo, nyc, etc, likely the effect would be catastrophic, felt worldwide. Overpopulation in China is dealt with via forced abortions. Who knows if it got bad enough it could become like that everywhere. I couldn't bear the thought of being without tech, but I'll admit it spoils us, its addictive like smoking or a wheelchair after getting used to one, and while it doesn't have the associated harmful effects say smoking has, its hard to think of having to just give it up all the same. I think after a long-term internet blackout we are going to
have some problems with rioting and anarchy. Is there any evidence for this? Absolutely not, and neither is there any for yours.
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26 / M / Waterloo, Ontario
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Posted 1/14/15
What's so hard to accept that all populations that exceed their carrying capacity will experience a die-off? Humans are not exempt from the same laws of nature that govern all other species. Like I mentioned, no amount of human technology and ingenuity can overturn the laws of nature. I already given an example of how running out of silicon means you can't make anymore computers. That's because you MUST have silicon to make computers. And yes, we are indeed running out of silicon because there are too many people using silicon.

During the last 100 to 200 years, the human population exploded because of oil. Petroleum was used to increase food production. And by increasing food production, we were able to increase population. You take the oil away the population must also go away because all of these 7 billion people exist on this planet solely because of oil. Without oil, we might be able to support 2 billion people. Let me explain how food is produced these days. All of the food we produce today is reliant on oil powered machines. The reason we can produce enough food for our massive population is only because of oil. Take the oil away, you take away the food, and by taking away the food, you take away the population.

Oil is axiomatic to modern civilization. Countless products are made of oil. Plastics, paints, resins and even the computer you are using is made of oil. Yes, the computer you are using is made of plastic and therefore oil. Without oil, computers wouldn't exist. We are running out of oil, and when we run out of oil, most modern technology cease to exist. Why? Because most technological advancements since 1900 were made possible due to oil. The best example of this is computers. Computer technology would be impossible without oil because without plastics (which are made of oil), computers are impossible. You cannot make a computer out of wood.

I don't care if you worship Jesus, Buddha or Allah. Your actual god is petroleum. Modern civilization would be impossible without oil. And at least 5 billion of the 7 billion people who exist today wouldn't be around if it wasn't for oil.
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