First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  Next  Last
Post Reply Times article - A Better Feminism
45489 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M
Offline
Posted 3/15/15

karmacide wrote:

I don't care. B)


I had a joke about a carebear, but it seemed to make no sense.

7401 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
48 / M / New England, USA
Offline
Posted 3/16/15
I'm all for Feminists. I believe women should make the same amount as men, have the same benefits as men, the same rights as men; a true equality.

I'm not for Feminazis. I don't believe we men should all be classified as evil, perverts, sinners, Satan's henchmen. Some of us men do respect, value and treat women as our equals.

I was raised as a gentleman. When you see a woman coming with her hands full hold the door for her (not just women but anyone with their hands full). I saw a women coming toward me with a baby in hand and a bag in the other; what did I get? "Do my hands look broken? I can do it myself! Get out of my way!". What did the businesswomen with glasses in a 3-piece business suit say to me when I held a door for her? "Thank you!" and with a smile.

28 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / F
Offline
Posted 3/19/15

_MissTake_ wrote:

Such a refreshing article. I enjoyed the read. Thank you...
Perhaps I'll come back and post my thoughts on Feminism another time when I've organized my thoughts.

As for you....


satansb wrote:

I can't believe you just brought up the "If women want to be treated fairly, then it's okay to hit them."

In the culture we currently live in, Men and Misogyny have POWER.
"Men get abused too!" Yes, and that's wrong. But FAR more women get abused.
Gender-based violence kills as many Women (ages 15-44) as Cancer, Malaria, Traffic Accidents, and War COMBINED.

(edit:) This reminds me of you



I can't believe you think making such comparisons would somehow make violence against the other gender a less important issue.

And that image.......

That's not how equality works, my dear.
That's what you call selfish entitlement.
Your issues are not the only ones worth addressing / fighting for.
Fighting for "equality" means fighting for EVERYONE'S issues regardless of their gender.


Majority > Minority, sweetheart.

Oh, right. Sorry for being so selfish. Jeez, why did I think I should be allowed to walk down the streets without being raped? HOW DARE I want to be treated as a human being, not just a pair of tits on a body.
Incase you didn't know, Feminism is about equality for Women. Why does a movement for Women get so misunderstood to the point where it's STILL about men?
27230 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 3/19/15 , edited 3/19/15
How can you fight for equality for just one side? I think it is a flawed approach. "Equality for women" just sounds silly. It promotes empowerment rather than actual balance. "Equality for all" is better if the goal is actual equality. If the goal is to arrive at equality, why call the movement feminism?

Equality requires both sides to cooperate and compromise. I believe modern feminism is just too twisted out of shape to work at this point, regardless of the values that are in its primary core. I've always taken a humanitarian approach, since there is more than one way to try to arrive at the goal of equality.

See someone who needs help at little cost to yourself? Help them regardless of their age and race and sex and religion.

Two people do the same amount of work of the same nature and of the same high quality? Give them equal pay.

Killers torment innocent victims and dispose of them in hideous manners? Punish the killers equally regardless of the status, sex, wealth level, or age of the people they killed.

Faced with rape cases and accusations? Don't go in with pre-judgment for one side or another. Go by the evidence.

Hold the door open for any person coming in right behind you as long as you are a decent human being. Who cares about who they are? It is common courtesy, not a gender issue.


This just makes more sense to me. I find it extremely suspicious when I tell people these things and they still insist that I am not for equality unless I am feminist. It happens more often than not whenever I discuss my view on feminism with feminists. I explain why I am not feminist and it is like they are not even listening. They almost always insist. It smells twisted and it looks twisted.
55 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / United States
Offline
Posted 3/19/15
Someone just please think of the trees that get cut down everyday for our own selfish reasons. Just because they don't have a conscious, does not mean they don't have a right to be there!!!
24468 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19 / F
Offline
Posted 3/19/15
To answer the question in the article, yes, feminism is absolutely still needed in some situations and places, especially in wages and executive job positions.
Popular culture has kind of distorted feminism into a different meaning. Instead of it meaning having "the same rights men have," it's turned into "giving women special treatment for being oppressed in the past' in some cases.

Special treatment ≠ Equality

In order for genders to be treated equally, both sides just have to learn to respect each other the same... Which of course, will never happen 100%, but I think the future holds a place where people do a much better job of that.
Posted 3/19/15 , edited 4/10/15

satansb wrote:

Majority > Minority, sweetheart.

Oh, right. Sorry for being so selfish. Jeez, why did I think I should be allowed to walk down the streets without being raped? HOW DARE I want to be treated as a human being, not just a pair of tits on a body.
Incase you didn't know, Feminism is about equality for Women. Why does a movement for Women get so misunderstood to the point where it's STILL about men?


By that reckoning, it's quite similar to saying "Fuck immigrants. They don't need rights." Because you know.... Majority > Minority. Unless immigrants have become the majority, in which case it'll be "Fuck Americans. They don't need "more" rights."

I guess that's how most people with your mindset think. Men already have "ALL" the rights and face absolutely no injustice / prejudice so fuck them. That's quite convenient, isn't it? You know, I'm not entirely sure if that's how your thought process works or if you're just pretending to sound like Tumblr Feminists. I'm hoping it's the latter because that's just.... so sad.

There is no such thing as a "right" to not be raped. That's like asking for the right to not be murdered or robbed. NO ONE is exempt from these things - women or men. Shit happens. People are scum. We don't live in a Utopia. Get over it. Also, sexism and "objectification" is not a "women's issue" only. It's a people / societal issue.

Nothing is "STILL about men." But it's not JUST about women either.
65132 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / 483 miles from "T...
Offline
Posted 3/19/15 , edited 3/19/15
I'm for women achieving everything that they want out of life on equal terms of a man. Except they must understand the basics first.
Men are 20% bigger than you on average. Men are a hell of a lot stronger than you, because they have more muscle. Men don't have to worry about that time of month.
For some women, they are truly upset that they were born a women for those reasons, and wish they were a different sex. This is true feminism brought about by lesbians in the 70's. If you do your research, you will find out that I am right.
Women just want the same choices available to them that men have. But lets get real, there are a lot of jobs that women can't take because of the limitations that I had stated before. They have to be a certain height, or strong enough to do a certain job, and companies that promote overtime can't afford to give leeway to a group of individuals that have to take sick leave for a few days of the month, or a month or more if they get pregnant.
Which brings up my second point. If you are in a job as a woman, and you love your job, and are successful at it, but then decide that there is something missing in the equation, and want to start a family. You must remember that families are not issued to you, or when you can drive to the store, and pick one up on your way home.
Families take commitment. The price of day care is almost, if not more, than you make that day at your job. So you have to make a choice.
If you think this is gods way of somehow punishing you because you are a women. Just remember, guys can't have a family either unless they commit as well.
Now, we live in a world that everything is possible now. Men can stay home if they want, and women can work. it does not matter who does what, the important thing is this, once you have a child, your time is not your own anymore...for the rest of your life...
And it is a huge leap in responsibility, for another life. A flesh and blood one, that both of you made. Whatever freedom you had before, is now gone. Just like magic. Poof. Because now whatever you do, affects someone else. Your child.
Feminism is a single girls game. It is not for grown women that have families. Your mom was a feminist, until she got married and made a commitment to get pregnant, and have you. Then made another commitment to raise you, against all odds.
A Mothers job, is sometimes a thankless job. All to keep you healthy, and to go to school, find you way in life, and maybe, just maybe have children of your own.
You want to know what a real feminist is? Look no further than your mother.
1840 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / The Bebop
Offline
Posted 3/19/15

Bankshot wrote:

I'm for women achieving everything that they want out of life on equal terms of a man. Except they must understand the basics first.
Men are 20% bigger than you on average. Men are a hell of a lot stronger than you, because they have more muscle. Men don't have to worry about that time of month.
For some women, they are truly upset that they were born a women for those reasons, and wish they were a different sex. This is true feminism brought about by lesbians in the 70's. If you do your research, you will find out that I am right.
Women just want the same choices available to them that men have. But lets get real, there are a lot of jobs that women can't take because of the limitations that I had stated before. They have to be a certain height, or strong enough to do a certain job, and companies that promote overtime can't afford to give leeway to a group of individuals that have to take sick leave for a few days of the month, or a month or more if they get pregnant.
Which brings up my second point. If you are in a job as a woman, and you love your job, and are successful at it, but then decide that there is something missing in the equation, and want to start a family. You must remember that families are not issued to you, or when you can drive to the store, and pick one up on your way home.
Families take commitment. The price of day care is almost, if not more, than you make that day at your job. So you have to make a choice.
If you think this is gods way of somehow punishing you because you are a women. Just remember, guys can't have a family either unless they commit as well.
Now, we live in a world that everything is possible now. Men can stay home if they want, and women can work. it does not matter who does what, the important thing is this, once you have a child, your time is not your own anymore...for the rest of your life...
And it is a huge leap in responsibility, for another life. A flesh and blood one, that both of you made. Whatever freedom you had before, is now gone. Just like magic. Poof. Because now whatever you do, affects someone else. Your child.
Feminism is a single girls game. It is not for grown women that have families. Your mom was a feminist, until she got married and made a commitment to get pregnant, and have you. Then made another commitment to raise you, against all odds.
A Mothers job, is sometimes a thankless job. All to keep you healthy, and to go to school, find you way in life, and maybe, just maybe have children of your own.
You want to know what a real feminist is? Look no further than your mother.


My thoughts exactly.
91 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Long Island, NY
Offline
Posted 4/9/15 , edited 4/28/16

morechunch wrote:


GodGreatestEver wrote:

Too inconsistent. "Women should be treated equally." -- Ok, totally agree.
>"Ladies first."
>"Guys should never hit girls."
>"Guys should treat girls with respect."
== Guys should treat girls specially. --Ok, wait... what?

Do they want to be treated equally or specially? Surely, equally would mean treating them like guys. If so, all those things that were taught about chivalry/gentlemen was completely pointless.
>Men fight for first.
>Men hit each other for the dumbest reasons.
>Men have to earn each other's respect.


This kind of outlook is too silly, I have to respond to it. It's not got anything to do with feminism to include the old gender role stereotypes and why you think they're still applicable, that's something else entirely. Chivalry comes from the outlook of knightliness, which inherently considers the knight more valuable than the commoner, and so it's somehow worth more for a knight to do a good deed for a commoner than a commoner for another commoner. Women couldn't be knights. Thankfully, language evolves with it's usage, and now chivalry is more about treating others respectfully as equals every chance you get.

It's not that chivalry/gentlemanliness is pointless, it's that you're supposed to extend it for reasons other than hooking a girl, and believe me, it's been dead in society longer than you've thought these feminists are making it pointless. But again, usage can change definition and I think I've got a piece that you're missing, and I've found a piece of what I'm missing.

As a precursor, the definite rule is guys should never hit gals, but that's also because nobody should physically strike anybody, especially not anybody smaller than them. As a counterpoint, have you never seen the youtube video of the girl throwing the shovel at the other girl? Hitting is what boys do and girls do it too. Girl fights were the best when I was in high school, fights were only like twice a month.

Guys should treat gals specially because presumably you're trying to hook one, but also because that's the first step in empathy. It's about recognizing that men and women have different challenges to face, but systemically it seems like women are more stifled than men. Men are treated specially too (and special doesn't always mean good in this sense, think of special-ed), because in one contrast out of a million it's assumed that guys should be rough and tumble jackasses and gals should be clueless delicate flowers.

But that doesn't make it less important to be chivalrous, we just need to learn to treat everybody specially. In this regard, chivalry is not gender-specific and shouldn't be under threat from any form of feminism.

How do men have to earn each others' respect any differently from women or from men earning women's respect? I'm thinking that maybe you just give your respect out to women for nothing, only because I think I've been confused similarly, but it is something you should do to everybody.

I dated a die-hard feminist for a little bit who liked to hold doors open for me because she could tell it created this internal anxiety of "this isn't right" and "there's nothing wrong with this." She made fun of me for it. What she couldn't understand is that I feel that way whenever anybody holds a door open for me, it was special and begrudgingly fun for me because she saw it and got enjoyment out of it, not because she's a woman and I wanted to hold doors for her. I was raised to hold a door for anybody and everybody, I'm a very good door holder thank you, it's something I like to do. The reasons go back to my parents' teaching and praise/scold habits, not sexism. In contrast I don't pull chairs out or close car doors for anybody, I was never taught to do that and it never crosses my mind.

I dunno, these problems with the feminist movement you've got seem to be from your personal experience, which is no way to look at an ideology if you want to understand it. I like to be treated specially and get the chance to talk mindlessly about things nobody else cares about, but I don't think anybody's demanding that specific right. Feminism as outlined in the OP's link is just a clever way of closing the door on the nut-jobs that have used feminism as a platform to be crazy.

Feminism itself, like chivalry, has just never become anything nasty in my opinion, and I think it's important that we ignore nut-jobs instead of using their arguments against credible concerns.


On the contrary, I don't treat anyone specially and don't believe I should. What I quoted were traditional ideals that still exists today--even children knows them. Yes, respect isn't given; it's earned. If a stranger tried to tell me his life story, I'd tell him how I don't care, to stop talking to me, and I'd walk away. Now if my professor tries to tell me his life story, I'd listen out of respect for him, which he earned. My point was that if gender equality is to actually happen, all the conventional ideas about how men should treat, specifically, women must be tossed aside. Even men who will pick on any other man, regardless of size or height, for say lunch money would be hard-pressed to give a woman the same treatment.
91 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Long Island, NY
Offline
Posted 4/9/15 , edited 4/28/16

satansb wrote:



I can't believe you just brought up the "If women want to be treated fairly, then it's okay to hit them."

In the culture we currently live in, Men and Misogyny have POWER.
"Men get abused too!" Yes, and that's wrong. But FAR more women get abused.
Gender-based violence kills as many Women (ages 15-44) as Cancer, Malaria, Traffic Accidents, and War COMBINED.

(edit:) This reminds me of you



Did you even read my post correctly? "If women want to be treated fairly, then it's okay to hit them" is the only thing, which by the way wasn't even the point, you walked away with? Let me put it anyway for you. Those conventional ideas still exists and are taught to children, and they need to be tossed away for true equality to happen. I'm fine with gender equality--but that means I should treat a woman like any other man. If I want to butt someone out of the way, punch someone, or cuss someone out, gender should not play a role, which it currently does in the eyes of society.
9200 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M
Offline
Posted 4/10/15 , edited 4/28/16

Bankshot wrote:

I'm for women achieving everything that they want out of life on equal terms of a man. Except they must understand the basics first.
Men are 20% bigger than you on average. Men are a hell of a lot stronger than you, because they have more muscle. Men don't have to worry about that time of month.
For some women, they are truly upset that they were born a women for those reasons, and wish they were a different sex. This is true feminism brought about by lesbians in the 70's. If you do your research, you will find out that I am right.
Women just want the same choices available to them that men have. But lets get real, there are a lot of jobs that women can't take because of the limitations that I had stated before. They have to be a certain height, or strong enough to do a certain job, and companies that promote overtime can't afford to give leeway to a group of individuals that have to take sick leave for a few days of the month, or a month or more if they get pregnant.


I dunno about you, but women still fill most of my top 5 positions for "people I'd rather have back me up in a bar fight" and "people I can ask for help when it comes to moving shit or doing manual labor".



Which brings up my second point. If you are in a job as a woman, and you love your job, and are successful at it, but then decide that there is something missing in the equation, and want to start a family. You must remember that families are not issued to you, or when you can drive to the store, and pick one up on your way home.
Families take commitment. The price of day care is almost, if not more, than you make that day at your job. So you have to make a choice.
If you think this is gods way of somehow punishing you because you are a women. Just remember, guys can't have a family either unless they commit as well.
Now, we live in a world that everything is possible now. Men can stay home if they want, and women can work. it does not matter who does what, the important thing is this, once you have a child, your time is not your own anymore...for the rest of your life...
And it is a huge leap in responsibility, for another life. A flesh and blood one, that both of you made. Whatever freedom you had before, is now gone. Just like magic. Poof. Because now whatever you do, affects someone else. Your child.


More men really regret not being able to get involved in child rearing, although as women are starting to become the breadwinners in families due to the past recesssion, more men are filling in this role.. (which is HILARIOUS considering how many people here don't realize this on the "we still need feminism because women aren't in the top positions and making all the money", but that's another story)



Feminism is a single girls game. It is not for grown women that have families. Your mom was a feminist, until she got married and made a commitment to get pregnant, and have you. Then made another commitment to raise you, against all odds.
A Mothers job, is sometimes a thankless job. All to keep you healthy, and to go to school, find you way in life, and maybe, just maybe have children of your own.
You want to know what a real feminist is? Look no further than your mother.


I don't like the whole equating women with mothers bit, but it does make a fair point. Women and men today believe they should have it ALL. Nothing works that way. You got to pick and choose what you want and what you're willing to pass on. But that's a fact of life and a thing everyone has to come to terms with.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.