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Post Reply What is the appeal of traditional Chinese medicine?
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Posted 1/29/15 , edited 1/29/15

S4869hu wrote:

I think these usually taste bad therefore I am vehemently opposed to them. Even Pokemon don't like em. I don't see the appeal but maybe it's similar to why people don't want to give their kids measles vaccines.


Sugar, mate. Sugar.

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The vaccine issue isn't more of the issue of appeal, it's more of the unfounded fear that the vaccine will cause harm to the person it was administrated to. Much of the vaccine fear stemmed from the fraudulent 1998 paper published by Andrew Wakefield that linked vaccines with developmental problems and mental deficiencies (such as autism). Andrew Wakefield lost his license as a result of this paper, but still some people believe that vaccines cause autism.

Also, some people complain about getting sick from getting a vaccine. It is possible with a very small chance, but only if you get a long lasting live vaccine. Killed vaccines cannot cause illnesses, but they require boosters. (Source)

And no, the flu vaccine cannot give you the flu.

I've gone quite off topic here.
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Posted 1/29/15

geauxtigers1989 wrote:


mordant221 wrote:

The problem isn't whether these work or not, if you decide to go to a traditional Chinese healer over a doctor when you're REALLY sick, then that's your choice.

The problem is the ingredients they use. These people are unknowingly, or knowingly, participating in the worst poaching we've seen in decades. Before the Chinese economy boomed, there wasn't much of a market for rare animal parts, but now they have a billion superstitous Chinese who think drinking soup made from the eyes of an endangered animal will cure cataracts. Resulting in poachers sneaking into nature preserves and not only hunting animals to near extinction, but killing the people trying to protect them.


That's one of the reasons I asked the question. It just baffles me that TCM has become so popular considering the fact it's largely ineffective and the the environmental consequences of producing it. I'm wondering if the problem could be alleviated if more effort was put into raising public awareness about the myths of TCM since the Chinese government's current solution, farming animals for their body parts, doesn't seem to be working much at all (and it's completely reprehensible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKerc11N4j4).


Well, the Chinese are taking steps forward as they have been cracking down on bear bile.
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Posted 1/29/15 , edited 1/29/15

bobland wrote:


S4869hu wrote:

I think these usually taste bad therefore I am vehemently opposed to them. Even Pokemon don't like em. I don't see the appeal but maybe it's similar to why people don't want to give their kids measles vaccines.


Sugar, mate. Sugar.

-----
The vaccine issue isn't more of the issue of appeal, it's more of the unfounded fear that the vaccine will cause harm to the person it was administrated to. Much of the vaccine fear stemmed from the fraudulent 1998 paper published by Andrew Wakefield that linked vaccines with developmental problems and mental deficiencies (such as autism). Andrew Wakefield lost his license as a result of this paper, but still some people believe that vaccines cause autism.

Also, some people complain about getting sick from getting a vaccine. It is possible with a very small chance, but only if you get a long lasting live vaccine. Killed vaccines cannot cause illnesses, but they require boosters. (Source)

And no, the flu vaccine cannot give you the flu.

I've gone quite off topic here.


You're right so I'll amend my statement. It was a spur of the moment reaction, my apologies.
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Posted 1/29/15

S4869hu wrote:


bobland wrote:


S4869hu wrote:

I think these usually taste bad therefore I am vehemently opposed to them. Even Pokemon don't like em. I don't see the appeal but maybe it's similar to why people don't want to give their kids measles vaccines.


Sugar, mate. Sugar.

-----
The vaccine issue isn't more of the issue of appeal, it's more of the unfounded fear that the vaccine will cause harm to the person it was administrated to. Much of the vaccine fear stemmed from the fraudulent 1998 paper published by Andrew Wakefield that linked vaccines with developmental problems and mental deficiencies (such as autism). Andrew Wakefield lost his license as a result of this paper, but still some people believe that vaccines cause autism.

Also, some people complain about getting sick from getting a vaccine. It is possible with a very small chance, but only if you get a long lasting live vaccine. Killed vaccines cannot cause illnesses, but they require boosters. (Source)

And no, the flu vaccine cannot give you the flu.

I've gone quite off topic here.


You're right so I'll amend my statement. It was a spur of the moment reaction, my apologies.


It's all good. :)

I enjoyed doing the research a little bit as well
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Posted 1/29/15
Interesting perspectives here. Love watching how different people react to different topics presented. In School to become an NMT I was required to take a class on TCM.

Mind if I add some educational perspectives?

Western medicine and TCM both focus on different areas of health and totally different approaches.

Western medicine = treat symptoms with pills, surgery's, and other medical devices = When illnesses, viruses, and disease occurs = best for worst case scenario emergencies. Bad for prevention

TCM = Best for Prevention = finds cause of symptoms = proscribed herbal supplementation + Making lifestyle/environmental changes = Longer healthier life. Bad for emergency Scenarios

As far as science goes.. it depends specifically what you're referring to? For example Fermented veggies have a ton of research showing their health benefits = TCM food. Also sports massage has it's routes traced back to TCM to certain to degree.

Science is always evolving because it is the process of happening, the process of being, the process of how, the process of what. That's why a lot studies can contraindicate each other. New discoveries are always being made and this influences new focus of future scientific studies.

Hope this is helpful to you all

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Posted 1/29/15

bobland wrote:

Not all traditional Chinese medicines are disproven.

The Prunella vulgaris, or in Chinese 夏枯草, has been tested to have positive benefits. It has shown to exhibit anti-viral and anti-bacterial effects, per this paper. This plant is often used to make a herbal drink and is commonly sold in China and in Asian supermarkets.

Ginseng, a popular drink nowadays, have been shown to enhance the immune system (Source 1, Source 2.)

Traditional Chinese medicines can be beneficial to you, but do your research first.


but by that very argument a lot of Chinese medicine is proven not to work as well.
would be funny to see how many have been shown to work vs shown to definitively not work.

stuff like ginseng really does work, then again western medicine also knows this and uses it, same with hundreds if not thousands of other drugs, we might think them artificial but behind the scary names, like acetylsalicylic acid, lies compounds either directly extracted or discovered in nature, as much as any chinese remedy is anyway.
Posted 1/29/15 , edited 1/29/15
Traditional medicine or herbal medicine do have benefits, it's only in modern culture we've learnt to dismiss them in favour of manufactured cures. If you think about it logically, the chemical combinations or general base structure for medicines has to come from somewhere, a lot of them are plant based but concentrated to give a more potent effect.

Also, many plants have known beneficial effects. The capuchin monkey in the amazon uses a plant (i can't for the life of me remember what it is called) that is a natural mosquito repellent. There are tribes, also, that chew on certain herbs and roots for pain relief and some have anti-biotic properties.

I favour traditional as I found it gives me a lot less hassle and it works well for me. Acupuncture is also a remedy I used to be sceptical of but it's helped various ailments of mine. ^^
Posted 1/29/15
People have always liked to believe in spiritual voodoo
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Posted 1/29/15 , edited 1/29/15
Edit: I am substantially modifying this post to better address the subject. The original text of this post will be included in a spoiler at the end if anyone wants to see it.

The first objection I have to traditional Chinese medicine is its rejection of the germ theory of disease, instead insisting that problems in alignments of one's spiritual energies are the underlying causes of health problems. The evidence for germ theory is positively staggering, with health problems not caused by germs being perfectly explainable by scientific means. You didn't contract lung cancer because the chi paths to your lungs have been blocked and neglected for years, you contracted lung cancer because you live next to a foundry and have been breathing in airborne lead particles.

The second objection I have to traditional Chinese medicine is that its herbal remedies are very scientifically unsound, with most of their benefits being explainable by placebo effects. A second problem is that these remedies' safety and effectiveness "standards" are a joke. Where scientific medicine is held to the standard that it must construct hundreds, thousands of dosage curves to determine the efficacy and potency of its substances, and further must account for as wide a range of potential side effects and their relative likelihood and intensity at a given dose in the name of drug safety, herbal medicine is given a pat on the back and well wishes. They don't have to demonstrate efficacy or safety. Think about that: the people who bottled your herbal supplement did not have to demonstrate that it does what they say it does, and they further didn't have to demonstrate that it won't hurt you prior to selling it. Guys, it's figuratively called "snake oil" for a reason: that was once very, very literal, and it ended the same way.

Not so eager to glug down some colloidal silver anymore, I see? Don't worry, I got a hot tip from some ancient Chinese alchemists that consuming mercury makes you immortal. It only killed China's first emperor with mercury poisoning, that's all.

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Posted 1/29/15
You want to know the appeal of Ancient Chinese Medicine? I'll tell you.

More seriously, some practices lumped under Chinese Medicine do have fairly well documented benefits, notably acupuncture and massage when dealing with things like chronic pain. Although, as I recall, the reasons they're effective at all are debated.

However, I personally wouldn't take any supplements, particularly the more... unusual.. ones without at least consulting a doctor first to make sure the "medicine" isn't liable to kill me.
Posted 1/29/15 , edited 1/29/15
I'm Chinese. My mother believes I will change the world one day.
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Posted 1/29/15
whats the appeal?
helps to mangage the massive side effects from the meds i take.

its not so much that TCM rejects germ theroy, more that its unnessesary. it covered in the TCM idea of the body.
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Posted 1/29/15
We can't just generalize and say that all TCM is rubbish, because some work. (see my previous posts)

I also agree with above post that "it's not so much that TCM rejects germ theory, more that its unnessesary". TCM doesn't really use the germ theory; it doesn't reject or deny it.

I don't have much time to go deeper today, but I'll probably continue someday.
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Posted 1/30/15
Those silly chinese farmers and their medicine. Look at this western medicine, contergan worked wonders

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Posted 2/1/15
Proliferation of TCM by the media, and "alternative thinking" blogs or supporters.

There's a degree of something in other alternative medicine, but TCM was from its origins a Maoist distraction manufactured to undermine the influence of the west. The unfortunate thing about any kind of alternative medicine is the fact that people take word of mouth as gospel, and quackery reigns supreme in nearly every area. Alternative medicine is not all bad, but a lot of it is. It's a shame, too.

The problem with any herbal medicine is that for every herb studied, there are thousands being peddled that are not, leads to big problems.
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