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The Ends Justify The Means Do You Agree Or Disagree?
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Posted 2/25/15

UnComikal wrote:



I used the term "indirect" because even if you're opposed to what's going on (like you and the death penalty), you're still supporting the government and their decisions with your taxes; thus, indirect support.

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The ends always justify the means to whomever means to reach the end. Hitler thought it was worth it. Stalin thought it was worth it. And terrorists think it's worth it. Otherwise it's your opinion versus theirs (granted, you might be the sane one and in the majority... but still). There still exists crazy people who do crazy things to get what they want. And there exist relatively sane ones. Both believing that whatever they try to accomplish is worth what they pay to accomplish it (unless they don't do what they want, or have regrets later).


Nope you always are directly involved in your government if you are under a social contract you have clearly defined rights and responsibilities to that government while you can ignore them there is a penalty for doing so. The government also has clearly defined rights and responsibilities towards you as well. This is what a social contract is. Examples failing to register for the draft you go to jail, failing to pay your taxes fines plus possible jail time. Those are the two easiest to point out. So guys if you are close to 18 don't forget to register for the draft yes I know we don't have one but it beats having the police or sheriff knocking on your door asking why you aren't doing your duty to your country. Taxation is not theft you do receive services and goods for that money spent.

This is as you have shown a subjective topic. The only time in history where I can see the ends actually justifying the means is Hiroshima and Nagasaki while horrible and tragic, the only other option we had at the time was a land invasion of Japan which would of had a much higher toll on life than with the dropping the bombs If there has been any other way they would have sought it. We had to end that damn war with the fewest causalities possible to both side. I hate every minute the fact that we had to do it and can not apologize deeply enough for what we wrought upon the world.

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Posted 2/25/15

gvblackmoon wrote:


UnComikal wrote:



I used the term "indirect" because even if you're opposed to what's going on (like you and the death penalty), you're still supporting the government and their decisions with your taxes; thus, indirect support.

PPPS
The ends always justify the means to whomever means to reach the end. Hitler thought it was worth it. Stalin thought it was worth it. And terrorists think it's worth it. Otherwise it's your opinion versus theirs (granted, you might be the sane one and in the majority... but still). There still exists crazy people who do crazy things to get what they want. And there exist relatively sane ones. Both believing that whatever they try to accomplish is worth what they pay to accomplish it (unless they don't do what they want, or have regrets later).


Nope you always are directly involved in your government if you are under a social contract you have clearly defined rights and responsibilities to that government while you can ignore them there is a penalty for doing so. The government also has clearly defined rights and responsibilities towards you as well. This is what a social contract is. Examples failing to register for the draft you go to jail, failing to pay your taxes fines plus possible jail time. Those are the two easiest to point out. So guys if you are close to 18 don't forget to register for the draft yes I know we don't have one but it beats having the police or sheriff knocking on your door asking why you aren't doing your duty to your country. Taxation is not theft you do receive services and goods for that money spent.

This is as you have shown a subjective topic. The only time in history where I can see the ends actually justifying the means is Hiroshima and Nagasaki while horrible and tragic, the only other option we had at the time was a land invasion of Japan which would of had a much higher toll on life than with the dropping the bombs If there has been any other way they would have sought it. We had to end that damn war with the fewest causalities possible to both side. I hate every minute the fact that we had to do it and can not apologize deeply enough for what we wrought upon the world.



I agree with you.

Though I'll concede that the associated connotation is both large in scale and negative, there are more positive examples that you don't give credit to. You have billions of motivations every second of every day dictating actions; calling the results always outweighed negatively by the means is a rather harsh assessment.

I carpooled today to get to work. That was a means to an end I can't imagine was all that bad.
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Posted 2/25/15
My thought on this is that it really depends on the situation. There are some cases where going all-out and rattling nerves in the process is quite worth the prize at the end. But in other situations where all that just isn't worth it in the end seeing how so much destruction was caused in making it happen. So in short, it depends seeing how one extreme a situation might call for it, but in others, it's best to stick with what is right as much as you can.
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Posted 5/28/16
op nuked. Locked.
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