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Post Reply My problem with gay marriage (as explained to me)
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Posted 2/5/15 , edited 2/5/15
Now I don't claim to know a lot about this topic, but I may just add to the conversation. If we agree with it we should support it. If we choose to remain neutral we should not be allowed to have a say into what ever happens. For example if it's the Presidential Elections and you did not vote, then you have no say on what happens. You cannot complain about the President chosen or the choices he/she makes....does that make sense? (This also remind me that I need to register to vote, I keep forgetting xD). So I think we should care and not remain neutral over such matters. If you remain neutral you cannot complain on what happens(whether gay marriage is approved or not).

Now when it comes to gay marriage, I do not see why it's such a bad thing. If two people truly love each other then they deserve to be happy together. I've always heard that homosexuality is a choice, but I have never been able to see how. Maybe it's just that I don't get how love works, but wouldn't my heterosexuality be a choice as well then? The whole choice thing confused me and never made sense. I can see something like preference/taste( i.e. hair color, height, build) being choice, but not someone's sexuality. I'm not gay, so how do I know what goes on through their head. This is always been what I thought when a anti-LGBT person told me homosexuality was a choice.

Well I can't find a post I read once that I wanted to add, but I remember the gist of it. A professor in class held up a textbook and asked what the color was. The students said black. He said no it wasn't. The students said yes it was. The professor then turned the book around to show a red cover. He then said do not tell people they are wrong until you have seen from their perspective.

I hope I made sense. I do not know everything when it comes to this topic, but this is just what I've thought about.
Posted 2/5/15
The main problem lies within the government, not the church. In some states it is still illegal. It never has been a cause of the LGBT movement to allow gay marriages in church, because that would infringe on personal belief. The problem is even allowing people to get courtroom marriages in the first place. Please research it more. We're not trying to oppress church belief.
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27 / M / Ark-La-Tex
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Posted 2/5/15
The goal is to gain state recognition for same-sex marriages, not religious recognition. The U.S. has a strict separationist policy, so the religious definition of marriage and the state definition do not need to match.
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46 / M / Between yesterday...
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Posted 2/5/15 , edited 2/5/15
Fence sitting and not actually have an opinion on something is fine to a point, but you actually do have to partake in your society and the question you have to ask yourself is do you want a society that includes people or excludes people. Once you answer that question everything else tends to fall into line.

That being said I would rather have a society that includes people because the differences make us strong not weaker. If you are against something because your religion tells you to be that way might be time to actually think for yourself for a change.

As for marriage, it is at it's foundation a contract between two people this contract entitles them to certain rights grants by the government it is not a religious matter in the eyes of the law but a legal one since it is a contract which is why your register with the state not the church.
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Posted 2/5/15

Ctonhunter wrote:
Now when it comes to gay marriage, I do not see why it's such a bad thing. If two people truly love each other then they deserve to be happy together. I've always heard that homosexuality is a choice, but I have never been able to see how. Maybe it's just that I don't get how love works, but wouldn't my heterosexuality be a choice as well then? The whole choice thing confused me and never made sense. I can see something like preference/taste( i.e. hair color, height, build) being choice, but not someone's sexuality. I'm not gay, so how do I know what goes on through their head. This is always been what I thought when a anti-LGBT person told me homosexuality was a choice.


Yes, your heterosexuality is a choice.

Your mind and body can be trained. It's not that confusing.

Anyway, gay marriage is fine. There are reasons against it just like there are reasons two siblings can't marry. However, these days marriage is more about love than all that stable society stuff, so perhaps those reasons are becoming obsolete.
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Posted 2/5/15
Because if only gay people were to fight for equal marriage, there will be plenty of straight people that will out match them.
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52 / M / In
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Posted 2/5/15 , edited 2/5/15
I fully support gay marriage. They have every right to be as miserable as the rest of us
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Posted 2/5/15
Honestly, I support gay marriage more because the only reason it is not legal already is because of religion. It is not right for religion to be used to decide what is legal and what is illegal. Take abortion for example, imagine if you were in a situation where you had to get one (emergency situation not irresponsibility) but couldn't because of someone else's religious beliefs. Or birth control for that matter. As an atheist and a woman, I do not want someone else's religion getting in the way of my personal freedom. Another thing is that It is not right for the majority (christians) to decide the rights of minorities. That is so wrong on so many levels.
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Posted 2/5/15

deer wrote:

Being neutral is essentially siding with the oppressor in situations where human rights are involved. You may think your apathy causes no harm (and it's reasonable for you to think so, I guess) but staying silent when there are still others being denied the right to be who they are is actually benefiting the ones who are trying to oppress LGBTA individuals (and other minorities).


+1. An equality issue.

You don't have to go out of your way to change people's minds when you have other priorities, but do at least vote when it comes up.


Marriage in America has religious and legal connotations, and they have been historically conflated. Some countries have two "ceremonies" -- a couple gets a legal civil union, and also a religious marriage. The two ceremonies is completely normal. You are bound under your country's laws on the one hand, and you are bound under your religion of choice on the other.

In America though, those have historically been one and the same. Marriage here is both a social and legal term, that some people get confused as a single concept. Getting a non-religious civil union is similar, but not the same, as getting a non-religious marriage.

Many rights are state-bound, so moving to a different state could alter your civil union benefits even though you're in the same country. So what is wanted by "gay marriage" is a universal recognition of equality of opportunity under the law for all Americans (or whichever country the same debate arises in).
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Posted 2/5/15

marklebid wrote:


deer wrote:

Being neutral is essentially siding with the oppressor in situations where human rights are involved. You may think your apathy causes no harm (and it's reasonable for you to think so, I guess) but staying silent when there are still others being denied the right to be who they are is actually benefiting the ones who are trying to oppress LGBTA individuals (and other minorities).


+1. An equality issue.

You don't have to go out of your way to change people's minds when you have other priorities, but do at least vote when it comes up.


Marriage in America has religious and legal connotations, and they have been historically conflated. Some countries have two "ceremonies" -- a couple gets a legal civil union, and also a religious marriage. The two ceremonies is completely normal. You are bound under your country's laws on the one hand, and you are bound under your religion of choice on the other.

In America though, those have historically been one and the same. Marriage here is both a social and legal term, that some people get confused as a single concept. Getting a non-religious civil union is similar, but not the same, as getting a non-religious marriage.

Many rights are state-bound, so moving to a different state could alter your civil union benefits even though you're in the same country. So what is wanted by "gay marriage" is a universal recognition of equality of opportunity under the law for all Americans (or whichever country the same debate arises in).


I think the state should be out of the marriage business in the first place, if you want to keep a similar structure call all Civil marriages Civil unions and call it a day. That being said, as long as legal rights and protections are tied to government (civil) marriages unless the said rights are universal barring gay marriage seems to go against the equal protection clause from a legal standpoint (which is why it will be legal nationwide by July).
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Posted 2/5/15
Well you see my good sir, there are idiots up there in Congress, and can't get their shit straight.

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Posted 2/5/15

Morbidhanson wrote:

I absolutely despise when someone claims something along the lines of "you are either for or against something." That is a twisted and unhealthily-absolute way of thinking that leaves no diplomatic middle ground and creates an awful lot of enemies. The middle grey zone is often much more vast than the extreme lefts and rights. Ignoring it is ridiculous, like saying you understand a book by only reading the first word of every sentence. I have almost never been convinced by any point being driven across to me using this tactic. If anything, it tends to make me not want to agree with the person telling me that. People who sincerely believe that tend to be overbearing and inflexible, IMO. They see only what they wish to and discard everything else.

Controversial issues are controversial for a reason. If they were truly so easy to decide for everyone, they would not be controversial. It bothers me whenever a person is so confident and self-assured they can't understand the position of the other side at all. Someone who truly understands the issue is nearly always affected by a healthy amount of indecisiveness or uncertainty. This isn't because they aren't capable of thinking and deciding. It is because they can see the issue from both sides. Being an extreme left or extreme right does little good in the long run. People only talk like that because they don't want to tackle the complex grey area issues or don't care to understand them. It is one of the reasons I no longer attend church meetings.

Believing in "letting people do as they may" is potentially a result of several different ways of approaching and analyzing the issue. A person can come to believe that through many very different thought processes. To consider them all invalid unless they are self-assuredly against or for something is foolish and comes off as arrogant. You're not a bad person for saying that you don't fully understand (or are too overwhelmed by the complexity of the issues) and aren't comfortable committing to either side, and you are not a bad person for not acting when you have no duty to act.

No elaborate ceremony is really required for a legal marriage, it's just that people tend to want to celebrate such an important event with a big gathering.

You are free to support a cause if it calls out to you and something within you makes it so that you feel obligated to act. You have no "problem with gay marriage" at all. You're not committing a crime if you aren't actively doing something in support of what you believe. If you were legally and morally obligated to act, you'd be a criminal every minute of every day. People aren't capable of being activists for everything they ever support or side with, nor should they be expected to be. You help out because you wish to provide help, not because you wish to be bound to the cause. Simply not acting does not make the existence of your opinion vanish, although people can pretend that it does all they want. You'll always encounter people who don't think the way you do, who don't agree that what you're doing or not doing is okay. That's just how the chaotic world is.



HOLY CRAP! Did you just take my brain and my thoughts and write it all out? because I really agree with you to the point where I just wanna come through the screen and hug you! and I really don't like hugs!

Anyway my thoughts are like I don't really care. That's probably cause I'm a bit indecisive. The gay rights movement just turned into a big joke when a lot of them just started talking about people's beliefs and crap. It really bothers me when an atheist keeps telling you that you believe in some stupid fairy tale or that you are blinded and stupid because of your religion. I feel like they should stfu and try to speak to people in a calm way. Try to get them to understand their side and why they believe they should have gay marriage. You think some religious old person freak is going to understand you and want to support if you talk about their beliefs? Nah. I know some gay and etc. don't do that, but the people who do make them all look bad. It's like with religious people. A lot of people think they force their beliefs on everyone when every religious person doesn't do that. If I could I would vote for gay marriage because why not? The country has better and bigger things to worry about. Just let them be. In a way it bothers me because I'm all religious and crap, but they deserve marriage too I guess. I try not to be biased, but sometimes I am...soo...yeah...

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Posted 2/5/15

damonthegreat wrote:

gay people are kinda annoying, overly opinionated and useless. why would they want to legalize something that's only purpose sets humanity back? lol


Because if gay marriage was legal maybe your father would have married a man and nullified your useless existence.
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Posted 2/5/15
Most Christians I know would have no issues with gay civil unions. What they take issue with is gay marriages. Traditionally the term marriage is "married" [haha see what i did there] into religion itself. I'm in the IDGAF camp personally. But I'd GAF even less if they scrubbed the word marriage out of the equation. Anywho that's my two cents
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Posted 2/5/15
isn't marriage a religious thing anyway

i mean we weren't born thinking "oh i gotta find one person and marry him/her for life".

It's not like we are swans who find one mate for the rest of their lives. That quite obviously doesn't fit the bill for humans. We're more like rabbits lol.
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