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Post Reply 9 year old strangled by police
Vempy 
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27 / F / Canada
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Posted 2/9/15
I'm going to reserve my judgement and point out this is a 54 second clip that is probably taking place after what I would guess was a violent struggle between the child and the police/security/peace officers (if it's over train tickets it's probably by law and/or peace officers). I'm not condoning the behaviour but that child was still kicking at the officer and biting his hand. I don't see any strangling going on nor do I see him repeatedly banging the kid's head against the ground...

The one time the kid's head hit was visibly banged against the ground looked like it was caused when he was thrashing about with his legs to push the officer off.

I had a little brother who used to flip out and throw hardcore, violent tantrums and even when he was nine and I was eighteen he still hurt me. When you obviously can't fight back all your can do is restrain them. I've been both restrained and have restrained some one by it sitting across there waist and pinning their arms, either with your legs as well or with your arms. You don't actually place your body weight on the person you're restraining and it doesn't hurt.

Again, since we have nothing but the 54 seconds to go off of and a supposed story about the why and who (that could be a lie too... It's been done before) I'm not going to throw wood on the fire.

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29 / M / Atlanta, GA, USA
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Posted 2/9/15
I remember seeing some kid years ago pissing off a couple cops before one of them decided to get rough with the kid and pin his hand behind his back. I just sort of laughed and told the cop to take it easy and he let the kid go. To be honest, I felt like beating the kid up myself. This video just shows that some little shits aren't as lucky as others. I'm sure the experience will teach him to be even more snotty in the future out of defiance.
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27 / M
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Posted 2/9/15
I've decided I'm not going to judge because I can't really tell anything by this video. However, I do know that it is possible for a 9 year old to injure a grown man. I learned those techniques when I was taking karate between the ages of 5 and 9. Specifically, we ran drills on what to do if we were being abducted. It's been a while, but as I recall the three techniques they taught for actually delivering harm upon the attacker were kicking shins, biting hands, and gouging eyes, with the aim of getting away of course. Pinning the kid to the ground like that prevents shin kicking, but biting and gouging are still a possibility (sounds like the kid actually was biting people).
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26 / M
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Posted 2/10/15

staphen wrote:

I've decided I'm not going to judge because I can't really tell anything by this video. However, I do know that it is possible for a 9 year old to injure a grown man. I learned those techniques when I was taking karate between the ages of 5 and 9. Specifically, we ran drills on what to do if we were being abducted. It's been a while, but as I recall the three techniques they taught for actually delivering harm upon the attacker were kicking shins, biting hands, and gouging eyes, with the aim of getting away of course. Pinning the kid to the ground like that prevents shin kicking, but biting and gouging are still a possibility (sounds like the kid actually was biting people).


that might be damage but with the exception of the eye none of that is actually serious.
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35 / M
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Posted 2/10/15 , edited 2/10/15
There is no strangle here at all. He is trying to pin the head to one side by pushing against the jaw. This limits his movement and ability to thrash about. The kid is likely to injure himself by thrashing around so in a way the security guy is actually reducing the chance of injury.
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27 / M
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Posted 2/10/15

TheOmegaForce70941 wrote:


KarenAraragi wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Is he really strangling him?


I know martial arts. That move right there is use in MMA fights. Will no strangle you unless you old it constantly but it hurt like shit. Hell it may even take the fight out somebody. Also the move can kill if apply incorrectly.


The police lost the grip while doing that MMA thing. And then he started smashing his head into the ground while starting to strangle him. I'm just surprised at the fact that people just said things like "shit" and "I feel bad for him" without doing a thing to help.



Would you challenge a cop and risk getting your ass lit up. You see what he's willing to do to a kid. Just think what he'd do to a grown ass man.
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26 / M
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Posted 2/10/15

Suluras wrote:

There is no strangle here at all. He is trying to pin the head to one side by pushing against the jaw. This limits his movement and ability to thrash about. The kid is likely to injure himself by thrashing around so in a way the security guy is actually reducing the chance of injury.


that it even reaches that point screams incompetence.

why was he trashing about to begin with?

i agree in so far as there might have been reasons to detain the kid, though i doubt it was anything important enough to justify immediate capture, in essence it should have been a social officer that picked up a kid of that age and not a police officer, which this btw wasnt, it was basically a deputy(not proper translation i know but the concept is analogous)
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Posted 2/10/15

oodain wrote:


Suluras wrote:

There is no strangle here at all. He is trying to pin the head to one side by pushing against the jaw. This limits his movement and ability to thrash about. The kid is likely to injure himself by thrashing around so in a way the security guy is actually reducing the chance of injury.


that it even reaches that point screams incompetence.

why was he trashing about to begin with?

i agree in so far as there might have been reasons to detain the kid, though i doubt it was anything important enough to justify immediate capture, in essence it should have been a social officer that picked up a kid of that age and not a police officer, which this btw wasnt, it was basically a deputy(not proper translation i know but the concept is analogous)


I have only commented on what I saw in the video.

I have not commented on who was in the right or why the kid was pinned in full mount because that information is not immediately available to me.
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28 / M / Seattle
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Posted 2/10/15
Lol, well at least he wasn't shot. If this was America, that kid would have a bullet in the back of his head already. That happened a few months ago here in Seattle, a guy didn't pay his train ticket, it was his 3rd time not doing so. The kid was mexican, got a bit violent but he was a head shorter than the cop and was alone (unlike the cop who had his partner with him). He was also wearing shorts and a wife beater, with no visible weapons according to the CCTV, but the cop still shot him. Despite having access to less than lethal means (tazer, mace, his damn fists).
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Somewhere
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Posted 2/10/15
I don't know the whole story, but it really did not seem like the cop/security officer was strangling the kid. We were only given 54 second clip and I do not believe that is enough to make a judgement call if that's the only thing we go by. We have no idea what happened before hand other than the kid did not get a bus ticket. Does the video make the cop out to be a jerk and the kid to appear helpless? Yes of course. Though again we do not know all that happened. There are also some very fishy things about the video if one is to consider the cop being a jerk. If the cop was actually harming that kid why did no one step in and everyone stood and watched/filmed it? You would think that at least one person would step in.
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26 / M / netherlands
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Posted 2/10/15
dont know what happend before all they started filming this so you cant judge this
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13 / F / California
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Posted 2/10/15
I bet that kid's mouth wrote a check his ass couldn't cash.

Also I bet $5 that little shit tried to bite the cop.

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27 / M
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Posted 2/10/15

oodain wrote:


staphen wrote:

I've decided I'm not going to judge because I can't really tell anything by this video. However, I do know that it is possible for a 9 year old to injure a grown man. I learned those techniques when I was taking karate between the ages of 5 and 9. Specifically, we ran drills on what to do if we were being abducted. It's been a while, but as I recall the three techniques they taught for actually delivering harm upon the attacker were kicking shins, biting hands, and gouging eyes, with the aim of getting away of course. Pinning the kid to the ground like that prevents shin kicking, but biting and gouging are still a possibility (sounds like the kid actually was biting people).


that might be damage but with the exception of the eye none of that is actually serious.


I have three things to say.

1. It sounds like you're saying that I shouldn't attempt to restrain someone who intends to do me harm unless there is a possibility that they can cause me serious injury.

2. Notice I said that my karate techniques were used to get away from an abductor. How is the Ordningsvakt supposed to do his job if the kid who didn't pay for his train ticket is allowed to get away?

3. Never mind the fact that you don't seem to think that a bite can cause a serious injury, you openly admitted that the gouging of eyes could in fact cause serious injury. I don't even know why you called me out on this.
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Posted 2/11/15

staphen wrote:


oodain wrote:


staphen wrote:

I've decided I'm not going to judge because I can't really tell anything by this video. However, I do know that it is possible for a 9 year old to injure a grown man. I learned those techniques when I was taking karate between the ages of 5 and 9. Specifically, we ran drills on what to do if we were being abducted. It's been a while, but as I recall the three techniques they taught for actually delivering harm upon the attacker were kicking shins, biting hands, and gouging eyes, with the aim of getting away of course. Pinning the kid to the ground like that prevents shin kicking, but biting and gouging are still a possibility (sounds like the kid actually was biting people).


that might be damage but with the exception of the eye none of that is actually serious.


I have three things to say.

1. It sounds like you're saying that I shouldn't attempt to restrain someone who intends to do me harm unless there is a possibility that they can cause me serious injury.

2. Notice I said that my karate techniques were used to get away from an abductor. How is the Ordningsvakt supposed to do his job if the kid who didn't pay for his train ticket is allowed to get away?

3. Never mind the fact that you don't seem to think that a bite can cause a serious injury, you openly admitted that the gouging of eyes could in fact cause serious injury. I don't even know why you called me out on this.


1: depends on your profession, you as a private body always in my mind have a right to self defense, the difference here is that the second you become a cop or in this case ordningsvagt, you have different responsibilities, one of those is to the well being of every single person in the country they serve, no matter criminal status, for most adults this level of restraint would be perfectly acceptable for a whole range of crimes (not having a train ticket not being one of them though, that is just idiotic, let them run and send a ticket+collection fee in the mail.)

2. is it more important that this one random ordningsvagt gets to do his job or that the kid gets proper treatment?
how important was that arrest?, how dangerous was the kid?
he doesnt look like he is a danger to anyone but the ordningsvagt, at least not by choice thrashing around when restrained is expected by a kid, he should know that.

3. strawmen, where did i say that a bite simply cant do any serious injury, a bite in the hand is quite unlikely to be anything sserious though, try to limit the black and white thinking please.
why did i call it out, because it is false equivalency to say that because there is any chance of injury the ordningsvagt has a right to do any act of restraint, if there is a very serious threat of injury, that the ordningsvagt did not put himself in, well then that is another case, putting yourself in harms way and then using that to justify violence is wrong no matter who you are.

TL:DR: this kids case could have been handled better by a social officer on all parts, while not alienating the kid for the rest of his life.
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27 / M
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Posted 2/11/15

oodain wrote:


1: depends on your profession, you as a private body always in my mind have a right to self defense, the difference here is that the second you become a cop or in this case ordningsvagt, you have different responsibilities, one of those is to the well being of every single person in the country they serve, no matter criminal status, for most adults this level of restraint would be perfectly acceptable for a whole range of crimes (not having a train ticket not being one of them though, that is just idiotic, let them run and send a ticket+collection fee in the mail.)

2. is it more important that this one random ordningsvagt gets to do his job or that the kid gets proper treatment?
how important was that arrest?, how dangerous was the kid?
he doesnt look like he is a danger to anyone but the ordningsvagt, at least not by choice thrashing around when restrained is expected by a kid, he should know that.

3. strawmen, where did i say that a bite simply cant do any serious injury, a bite in the hand is quite unlikely to be anything sserious though, try to limit the black and white thinking please.
why did i call it out, because it is false equivalency to say that because there is any chance of injury the ordningsvagt has a right to do any act of restraint, if there is a very serious threat of injury, that the ordningsvagt did not put himself in, well then that is another case, putting yourself in harms way and then using that to justify violence is wrong no matter who you are.

TL:DR: this kids case could have been handled better by a social officer on all parts, while not alienating the kid for the rest of his life.


1. You honestly don't know what level of restraint the Ordningsvakt attempted to use before the kid supposedly started trying to bite him to get away. At that point, the kid committed an act of violence; against an authority, no less. Whether you think this level of restraint is too much for not paying a train ticket is somewhat irrelevant since I highly doubt the Ordningsvakt normally goes around tackling 9-year-olds who don't pay for train tickets.

2. I don't know how important the arrest was, but acts of violence are pretty high up on my list of serious matters. I don't know how the situation escalated to the point where the Ordningsvakt was pinning the kid to the ground, but I honestly can't say I saw anything in the video to suggest he was doing anything besides restraining the kid (except maybe when he pushed the kid's shoulders to the ground rather forcefully, but it's hard to say whether he wasn't simply applying his weight and underestimating the effect).

3. I don't know about you, but if someone bit my finger off, I'd consider that to be a pretty serious injury. Even if all I had to do was take antibiotics, wear a bandage, and sign my name with my left hand for a week or two, I'd consider that a serious injury as well. As for the claim of false equivalency, I'll reiterate that I don't know how the situation escalated, so I can't say whether that level of restraint was warranted. That's why I said I'm not judging. The video really doesn't tell me anything that couldn't be reasonably explained.

TL;DR: 9-year-olds can still cause significant harm to grown men.
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