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Post Reply 9 year old strangled by police
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Posted 2/11/15


1.
no i dont know and never claimed to, there are plenty of conditionals in every point i have made.

circular logic, if we assume there was no immediate need to detain then no escalation thus no biting.
if we assume there was a need for detention that is another story, but my point wasnt to say that he couldnt be right under any circumstance, it was that even if the ordningsvagt was in danger then the nature of his duties dictate that he deal with them in a different manner than a private person, what you have a right to do isnt necessarily the same as what he has a right to do in the same situation.

2. again depends on chain of events but if the ordningsvagt escalated the situation in any way then any level of restraint is unwarranted.
to be honest i dont even think an ordningsvagt is authorized to use force or restraint of any kind unless in a situation where lives or lasting injury is involved, they do not hold powers of arrest, that much i know.
you are right that him underestimating his own force is a very big possibility, doesnt make it right or competent.

3. a lost finger would be serious, but i already acknowledged that, the chances of that happening versus something lesser is what is important, that and to remember that what is acceptable risk for you and someone in law enforcement should be two very different things.
legally though your second example of a 2 week bandaged hand is incorrect, it isnt about what someone considers, it is about any lasting effect from any particular injury, which granted can manifest years after the fact.
in anything lesser than that you should be compensated for any lost time and grievance and that should be that.



xxJing 
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Posted 2/11/15
This is what happens when you don't restrain someone properly.

The Walking Dead gif in spoiler.
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Posted 2/12/15

oodain wrote:

1.
no i dont know and never claimed to, there are plenty of conditionals in every point i have made.

circular logic, if we assume there was no immediate need to detain then no escalation thus no biting.
if we assume there was a need for detention that is another story, but my point wasnt to say that he couldnt be right under any circumstance, it was that even if the ordningsvagt was in danger then the nature of his duties dictate that he deal with them in a different manner than a private person, what you have a right to do isnt necessarily the same as what he has a right to do in the same situation.

2. again depends on chain of events but if the ordningsvagt escalated the situation in any way then any level of restraint is unwarranted.
to be honest i dont even think an ordningsvagt is authorized to use force or restraint of any kind unless in a situation where lives or lasting injury is involved, they do not hold powers of arrest, that much i know.
you are right that him underestimating his own force is a very big possibility, doesnt make it right or competent.

3. a lost finger would be serious, but i already acknowledged that, the chances of that happening versus something lesser is what is important, that and to remember that what is acceptable risk for you and someone in law enforcement should be two very different things.
legally though your second example of a 2 week bandaged hand is incorrect, it isnt about what someone considers, it is about any lasting effect from any particular injury, which granted can manifest years after the fact.
in anything lesser than that you should be compensated for any lost time and grievance and that should be that.



I don't have much else to say except that if you're talking about serious injury from a legal standpoint and what an Ordningsvakt is authorized to do by law, then we are talking about entirely different things. I don't live in Sweden and have literally never learned anything about Swedish law. However, from what I can tell with a quick Google search, serious injury in the US from a legal standpoint is what I would describe as "pretty damn serious," and I would be surprised if Swedish law stated that an Ordningsvakt can't make judgments to defend himself or others in situations where he is at low risk of serious injury as defined by US law. Seeing as how I don't know who you are, where you live, or what possible expertise you have on the subject of Swedish law, maybe you can understand my skepticism.
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Posted 2/14/15
The video has been circulating through WhatsApp and BlackBerry Messenger here. A friend of mine sent it to me on WhatsApp two days ago and that was when I first saw it. This is a deeply horrific and disturbing video. The security guard can be seen pushing the child’s face into the pavement, slamming his head hard, covering his mouth and suffocating him. Why didn't the bystanders step in?? I'm a new member here, as you can see, I found this forum while searching for news about this, but surprisingly, there wasn't any article about this on news sites, I only found one article on a website that demonize law enforcement by documenting police abuse. I'm shocked it's not making headlines. If it was in America, it'd be all over the news, with people protesting and everything. I guess Sweden likes to keep things private. Even though this is nothing to be quiet about.
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Posted 2/14/15 , edited 2/14/15

Nozferi wrote:
On the side, if anyone can understand what the child is saying, could you please post a translation here? *EDIT*


Somewhere in the beginning of the footage, you will see him raising his index finger of his right hand and saying the following in Arabic: "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and His messenger." Raising the index finger of the right hand and simultaneously reciting what I just translated is something Muslims do when praying which means the kid in the video is a Muslim. And in his case, he believed he was dying so it was like a quick death prayer.
Posted 2/14/15
Nothing surprises me anymore.
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Posted 2/14/15
Hes a security guard not a police officer the thread title is wrong
kiwii1 
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Posted 2/14/15
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Posted 2/14/15 , edited 2/15/15
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Posted 2/14/15

Someone800 wrote:


Nozferi wrote:
On the side, if anyone can understand what the child is saying, could you please post a translation here? *EDIT*


Somewhere in the beginning of the footage, you will see him raising his index finger of his right hand and saying the following in Arabic: "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and His messenger." Raising the index finger of the right hand and simultaneously reciting what I just translated is something Muslims do when praying which means the kid in the video is a Muslim. And in his case, he believed he was dying so it was like a quick death prayer.


Thank you! That's exactly the part I was curious about. I'll never understand how children could be placed in a situation that scares them to the point that they feel a need to perform a death prayer, in public even.

I wish the entire incident had been recorded, I'd like to have a complete view of the situation as a whole. But in the end, the focus should still be on the fact that this was a child, just 9 years old...





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Posted 2/15/15

Nozferi wrote:


Someone800 wrote:


Nozferi wrote:
On the side, if anyone can understand what the child is saying, could you please post a translation here? *EDIT*


Somewhere in the beginning of the footage, you will see him raising his index finger of his right hand and saying the following in Arabic: "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and His messenger." Raising the index finger of the right hand and simultaneously reciting what I just translated is something Muslims do when praying which means the kid in the video is a Muslim. And in his case, he believed he was dying so it was like a quick death prayer.


Thank you! That's exactly the part I was curious about. I'll never understand how children could be placed in a situation that scares them to the point that they feel a need to perform a death prayer, in public even.

I wish the entire incident had been recorded, I'd like to have a complete view of the situation as a whole. But in the end, the focus should still be on the fact that this was a child, just 9 years old...


You're welcome. I agree. It is really sad. The security guard wanted to hold the boy till the police show up and take him but the way he did it was just unnecessary and extreme.
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