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Post Reply Gods Will and Free Will
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Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:

Ship him to my school and put him through a year of Theology. He desperately needs it.


Theology is the retarded younger sister of philosophy that no one wants to bang.
Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


skygod333 wrote:

Ship him to my school and put him through a year of Theology. He desperately needs it.


Theology is the retarded younger sister of philosophy that no one wants to bang.


Theology is as much a branch of Philosophy as any other branch. It is equally important to understanding Philosophy. If you reject Theology, you reject an entire portion of Philosophy and will never fully understand Philosophy.

Magnus, you obviously have little to no idea of what you're talking about on theological matters. I recommend that you take a course just to be informed. You don't have to believe it, just learn it for the sake of being informed.
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Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:


skygod333 wrote:

Ship him to my school and put him through a year of Theology. He desperately needs it.


Theology is the retarded younger sister of philosophy that no one wants to bang.


Theology is as much a branch of Philosophy as any other branch. It is equally important to understanding Philosophy. If you reject Theology, you reject an entire portion of Philosophy and will never fully understand Philosophy.

Magnus, you obviously have little to no idea of what you're talking about on theological matters. I recommend that you take a course just to be informed. You don't have to believe it, just learn it for the sake of being informed.


I understand philosophy and understand theology. I do not consider theology to be worthy on inclusion with other philosophical thinking. Magnus is right is nonsense. This does not refer to people who rationalized god without an obviously false religion involved (E.G. Plato)
Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


skygod333 wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:


skygod333 wrote:

Ship him to my school and put him through a year of Theology. He desperately needs it.


Theology is the retarded younger sister of philosophy that no one wants to bang.


Theology is as much a branch of Philosophy as any other branch. It is equally important to understanding Philosophy. If you reject Theology, you reject an entire portion of Philosophy and will never fully understand Philosophy.

Magnus, you obviously have little to no idea of what you're talking about on theological matters. I recommend that you take a course just to be informed. You don't have to believe it, just learn it for the sake of being informed.


I understand philosophy and understand theology. I do not consider theology to be worthy on inclusion with other philosophical thinking. Magnus is right is nonsense. This does not refer to people who rationalized god without an obviously false religion involved (E.G. Plato)


I consider it worthy of inclusion. I believe in God. Whether you like it or not, it is included.

One thing I notice, Christians seem a lot happier than atheists in general. You atheists sound cold while Fae and the rest of Christians sound warm. Just thought I'd point that out.
Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:


skygod333 wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:


skygod333 wrote:

Ship him to my school and put him through a year of Theology. He desperately needs it.


Theology is the retarded younger sister of philosophy that no one wants to bang.


Theology is as much a branch of Philosophy as any other branch. It is equally important to understanding Philosophy. If you reject Theology, you reject an entire portion of Philosophy and will never fully understand Philosophy.

Magnus, you obviously have little to no idea of what you're talking about on theological matters. I recommend that you take a course just to be informed. You don't have to believe it, just learn it for the sake of being informed.


I agree with YouAreDumb. The theology I have read seemed like utter dreck. Thomas Aquinas, Augustine, and the other "biggies" never seemed all that logical to me when compared with other thinkers such as David Hume. My position is not based on ignorance.


Have you ever bothered to even learn Theology? One full year of the subject? If so, you've gotten a lot of things wrong. Many would agree with me. I also notice no one bothered to debate my position on the general attitudes of atheists and Christians...
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Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:


skygod333 wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:


skygod333 wrote:

Ship him to my school and put him through a year of Theology. He desperately needs it.


Theology is the retarded younger sister of philosophy that no one wants to bang.


Theology is as much a branch of Philosophy as any other branch. It is equally important to understanding Philosophy. If you reject Theology, you reject an entire portion of Philosophy and will never fully understand Philosophy.

Magnus, you obviously have little to no idea of what you're talking about on theological matters. I recommend that you take a course just to be informed. You don't have to believe it, just learn it for the sake of being informed.


I understand philosophy and understand theology. I do not consider theology to be worthy on inclusion with other philosophical thinking. Magnus is right is nonsense. This does not refer to people who rationalized god without an obviously false religion involved (E.G. Plato)


I consider it worthy of inclusion. I believe in God. Whether you like it or not, it is included.

One thing I notice, Christians seem a lot happier than atheists in general. You atheists sound cold while Fae and the rest of Christians sound warm. Just thought I'd point that out.


Oh maybe it should be included in a classical education. What the heck does being warm have to do with being right?
Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


skygod333 wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:


skygod333 wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:


skygod333 wrote:

Ship him to my school and put him through a year of Theology. He desperately needs it.


Theology is the retarded younger sister of philosophy that no one wants to bang.


Theology is as much a branch of Philosophy as any other branch. It is equally important to understanding Philosophy. If you reject Theology, you reject an entire portion of Philosophy and will never fully understand Philosophy.

Magnus, you obviously have little to no idea of what you're talking about on theological matters. I recommend that you take a course just to be informed. You don't have to believe it, just learn it for the sake of being informed.


I understand philosophy and understand theology. I do not consider theology to be worthy on inclusion with other philosophical thinking. Magnus is right is nonsense. This does not refer to people who rationalized god without an obviously false religion involved (E.G. Plato)


I consider it worthy of inclusion. I believe in God. Whether you like it or not, it is included.

One thing I notice, Christians seem a lot happier than atheists in general. You atheists sound cold while Fae and the rest of Christians sound warm. Just thought I'd point that out.


Oh maybe it should be included in a classical education. What the heck does being warm have to do with being right?


Christians, having found God, seem a lot nicer than atheists as they share, speak kind words and do kind actions. Atheists, to me, seem colder and more angry when Christians seem happy. I wonder why...
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Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:


Christians, having found God, seem a lot nicer than atheists as they share, speak kind words and do kind actions. Atheists, to me, seem colder and more angry when Christians seem happy. I wonder why...


I will quote the esteemed George Bernard Shaw: The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
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Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:

I am often told that god has a plan for me. I am also told that there is evil in the world since he has given us free will. Can free will and an omnipotent and omniscient gods will coexist in the sense that many religious believe?

If god has a plan for me do I have ability not follow it? If god has a plan and I go against it then I have defied the will of god. If god made you to build a church at 40 and you kill yourself at 11 then you have gone against his will. If god is all powerful surely I will do what he planned for me to do.

Let us suppose god is all powerful and all knowing. He already knows everything that is going to happen. That is what the major monotheistic religions claim. Alright if those things are true it means that before god created the universe he knew exactly what was going to happen. Since he knew it was going to happen and did nothing to change it we must accept that everything that occurs is his will. He has set things up to match what he wants to happen. This is the case with the example of killing yourself above. You are either a slave to some plan god has for you since he set up the stage for it, or you have the ability to choose your own path. The two can not be reconciled. After all we are all products of the experiences we have had in life. So either god made things to happen as he wants or we have free will and such a creator does not exist. If he does it could be said that he toppled the first domino and your life is nothing but another in the chain. It is a product of what was already happened. So either gods will is dominate or our will is dominate. If the universe was made by god then simply put free will is an illusion that you have while dancing to his strings .


So I would hate to think he is real. After all I like to think that free will does exist to an extent and that I am not merely a puppet. Perhaps we are still not free since we are products of our environment but at least if god is false we are not actors putting on a pre written production and can change our future. Predestination is a logical conclusion for many religions in my opinion. It is also disgusting.

This means gods wanted everyone to be murdered and raped who has been so in the past. Since his will and free will can not co-exist the free will arguement to explain why he lets evil happen falls apart. Also all of us who are non believers were pre damned from birth. We will if those religions are right be punished for things not of our own doing but are a result of his will. Just my thoughts ......


ok with regards to God knowing the future, i'd say that God has what i personally have lamely called ( XD) Multi-sight.
what i mean is God knows what will happen if u walk out into the street and turn right vs. if if u walk out and turn left. he knows what will happen if u get home early or if u get home late. But because he has given us free will, he does not control what we actually do, so we still have the choice of going left or right.
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Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

wolfwood012 wrote:

I have this thought on God's plan and his plan for all people. Now I say this to depict what I believe God's and our free will is. Imagine life as a road map, God has given you the ability to turn whichever way you want, make whatever pit stops you want, heck he even lets you choose if you wanna car bike walk or fly. Now this is my idea on God's plan, no matter which way you turn God knows what is going to happen next on your journey, and ultimately he knows the end as well. So you can make infinite chioices with infinite ending s but god knows every one. Now almost all these purposes Christian or not can be used for the good of the Kingdom.
Example: (Some people forgive me if I went to far)
You can say that you can commit suicide right now, yet by doing so you have made me thankful for life . So if you wanna look at it from that perspective then God has used you as a suicide deterent for people such as me, to further his purpose for my life.
Sry if that was kinda messed up...


aah u've got the right idea, i just finished saying the same thing basically
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Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

Faeleia wrote:


emm0548 wrote:
Gods will and free will? for me they are the same... if youre Christian, you pick Gods will and you feel free to follow that..and that is the Christians free will....other people.. they have free will.. but it depends on how they use it. and who they belive in...


The thing about God's will, is that He never asks you to do things you dislike, or dont' want to. If He's going to steer you in a direction to do something, He'll provide the desire, the courage, the peace of heart for it. The Holy Spirit will give you the motivation, so it is never forcing us, and it'll be something that you'll want to do too. Of course, you first have to be filled with the Spirit first.

Man's desires are not God's desires.


that never came to mind when i posted it... thank you for telling me... i wont forget that.
Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


skygod333 wrote:


Christians, having found God, seem a lot nicer than atheists as they share, speak kind words and do kind actions. Atheists, to me, seem colder and more angry when Christians seem happy. I wonder why...


I will quote the esteemed George Bernard Shaw: The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.


But you and I are sober and yet my group is happier.
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Posted 2/5/08 , edited 4/18/08

YouAreDumb wrote:

I will quote the esteemed George Bernard Shaw: The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.


Christians quote one man for everything. Non-believers quote from everywhere they can for one thing.

--

A drunken man takes time to become sober. A sober man resorts to drinks to be drunken. Christians according to this line of thought are permanently drunk. Sober men resort to different alcohols to get the longest state of stupor, since following that train of thought, sober people do not find happiness.

A sober man has no business in the midst of drunken people, because only time cures the state of stupor. Similarly, if sober people spend time trying to cure drunken people, then it can be said that sober people are no more intelligent than drunken men.
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Posted 2/6/08 , edited 4/18/08

Faeleia wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:

I will quote the esteemed George Bernard Shaw: The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.


Christians quote one man for everything. Non-believers quote from everywhere they can for one thing.

--

A drunken man takes time to become sober. A sober man resorts to drinks to be drunken. Christians according to this line of thought are permanently drunk. Sober men resort to different alcohols to get the longest state of stupor, since following that train of thought, sober people do not find happiness.

A sober man has no business in the midst of drunken people, because only time cures the state of stupor. Similarly, if sober people spend time trying to cure drunken people, then it can be said that sober people are no more intelligent than drunken men.


You have missed the point. It is that just because something makes you happy does not mean it is good for you are true. What he was getting at is that when you are deluded you might be happy but it means nothing as you are still deluded.
Posted 2/6/08 , edited 4/18/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


Faeleia wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:

I will quote the esteemed George Bernard Shaw: The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.


Christians quote one man for everything. Non-believers quote from everywhere they can for one thing.

--

A drunken man takes time to become sober. A sober man resorts to drinks to be drunken. Christians according to this line of thought are permanently drunk. Sober men resort to different alcohols to get the longest state of stupor, since following that train of thought, sober people do not find happiness.

A sober man has no business in the midst of drunken people, because only time cures the state of stupor. Similarly, if sober people spend time trying to cure drunken people, then it can be said that sober people are no more intelligent than drunken men.


You have missed the point. It is that just because something makes you happy does not mean it is good for you are true. What he was getting at is that when you are deluded you might be happy but it means nothing as you are still deluded.


The funny thing is, Fae is right: We have a concrete source to quote from while Atheists have scattered quotes. And religion does not make you deluded, it makes you normal. It is hard-wired into the brains of most people to worship something. 90%(or better) of all humans have this hardwiring. You are in the minority. Since normal is what the majority is, you are abnormal and by popular vote, deluded. Besides, most of the world would agree with me on the fact that there is some kind of God. I choose the Christian God. Since you don't have this hard-wiring, you're disfunctional and fail.

Insults seem to be the only thing you understand so there you have it.
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