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Is Equality Evil?
Posted 2/20/15
"All men…are NOT created equal! Some are born smarter, or more beautiful, or with parents of greater status. Some, by contrast, are born weak of body or mind, or with few, if any, talents. All men are different! Yes, the very existence of man is discriminatory! That's why there is war, violence and unrest. Inequality is not evil. Equality is! What became of the EU, who claimed that all are equal? It is in constant conflict because its tenets go against human nature! The Middle Eastern Federation, which harbors similar sentiments, is constantly mired with sloths! But our Britannia is not like them! We put an end to wars and evolve with every conquest! Britannia alone looks forward and moves forward to a better future! The death of my son Clovis is yet more proof that our empire is evolving. Fight! For the future rests in the hands of its ruler! ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!!!!!"


So, do you think Charles is right?
Posted 2/20/15 , edited 2/24/15
Equality can only be view as evil from the perspective of someone who benefits from inequality.
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Posted 2/20/15
Pv is eVil.
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Posted 2/20/15 , edited 2/24/15

etoile55 wrote:

Equality can only be view as evil from the perspective of someone who benefits from inequality.


Exactly this.

Posted 2/20/15 , edited 2/24/15
Nope. Thought Charles was wrong when I watched the show and still hate that mentality now.

Adressing each part of that "speech" in turn:
1) There are different kinds of equality. All men are not equal in ability or heritage (luck basically), but all are equal in value regardless. Human value is an intrinsic part of being human. If you're human, you're equal to every other human out there in value.
2) There would be more war, violence , and unrest if people are considered unequal. See the various slave rebellions / mutinies as well as the various revolutions throughout history.
3) Britannia sucks. Military prowess and money are just about all they have. A culture revolving around nothing but Darwinian evolution is a narrow culture indeed. This is why even though their nation is so great, all the ordinary citizens seem like jerks. You need more to culture than survival of the fittest - you need loftier ideals to strive for. It's kind of sad that they just looked at nature and said "with all of our human capabilities, let's go back to living like wild animals!"

I like how they made that the mentality of the villain though. I think it's good that they mark the mentality as clearly evil. You'd be surprised how common it is
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Posted 2/20/15 , edited 4/6/16
some how i knew PV started this.

but yeah, we are not created equal. like gender equality. we are not equal.
but we should have the same oppertunities.
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Posted 2/20/15 , edited 2/21/15
That's a complex question.

Morally, no. In a perfect world everyone contributes equally, in whatever way they can, towards whatever the group's current goal is.

But we don't live in a perfect world.

There are always going to be people better than others at things - not to talk down on anyone, but that's a cruel truth of the world. Inequality isn't just some concept enforced by the bourgeois, it's a fundamental truth of reality... and to make things better we first need to accept that. It's not the existence of inequality that causes problems, but that people with superior capabilities like to lord over the "lesser beings" that causes problems.
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Posted 2/20/15
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron

The above link is about a story that I read many many years ago. It showed me that there can never be true absolute equality without taking away from others.
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Posted 2/20/15 , edited 2/20/15
Everyone is born equal, however, your choices in life can devalue your life..

A murderer is not equal to a volunteer worker at the orphanage.

Everyone is born equal in the sense that things they cannot change do not devalue them as a human being. People with different sexuality are all equal, people of different races and ethnicity are all equal, people born into different social classes are all equal.

However, if you make poor choices in life that negatively effect those around you, I believe you devalue your-self as a human.

Someone who has raped an innocent girl is not equal to me. I am sorry, but anyone who commits crime is scum and a filthy mongrel that is less than human, less than trash.

I dont know if that made any sense, but I believe people are equal in the things they cannot change, but someones actions and personality can change their value as a human being.
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Posted 2/20/15
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
Posted 2/20/15

Genbu89 wrote:

That's a complex question.

Morally, no. In a perfect world everyone contributes equally, in whatever way they can, towards whatever the group's current goal is.

But we don't live in a perfect world.

There are always going to be people better than others at things - not to talk down on anyone, but that's a cruel truth of the world. Inequality isn't just some concept enforced by the bourgeois, it's a fundamental truth of reality... and to make things better we first need to accept that. It's not the existence of inequality that causes problems, but that people with superior capabilities like to lord over the "lesser beings" that causes problems.


But why does contribution change one's "equality status"? Why does ability determine someone's worth? What is it about being able to "do more" that makes someone better? And who determines which abilities are better? Is an average engineer better than the world's best artist? Is an athlete better than a good hospital receptionist? Why does one's capabilities determine whether or not they are equal to others?

And you can't even really base it just on capabilities. For all we know, a homeless man on the street might have the capability to become a renowned physicist if his lot in life at birth was different. Then it becomes not an argument of capabilities, but actions. Those who "do more" are better than those who don't? What about a surgeon or a violinist who injure their dominant hand? I think tying equality to capability at all is too thorny - which is why I opt for the "different kinds of equality" route


AzazelOfNexium wrote:

Everyone is born equal, however, your choices in life can devalue your life..

A murderer is not equal to a volunteer worker at the orphanage.

Everyone is born equal in the sense that things they cannot change do not devalue them as a human being. People with different sexuality are all equal, people of different races and ethnicity are all equal, people born into different social classes are all equal.

However, if you make poor choices in life that negatively effect those around you, I believe you devalue your-self as a human.

Someone who has raped an innocent girl is not equal to me. I am sorry, but anyone who commits crime is scum and a filthy mongrel that is less than human, less than trash.

I dont know if that made any sense, but I believe people are equal in the things they cannot change, but someones actions and personality can change their value as a human being.


So would you be fine with enslaving criminals? What about euthanizing them like stray dogs? Rounding them up in huge gas chambers and disposing of them like pesky bacteria? What are the levels of dehumanization? Theft and you're a slave, murder and you're a dog, rape and you're bacteria? Can you ever work your way back up? Can humans ever change? Or is it once a thief always a thief? You had your chance at humanity and you failed?
Posted 2/20/15
I think that ,"asking is it evil?" Isn't the most effective question here to inquire about.

Maybe it's equal to not be equal, maybe the idea of equality is illusory and therefore ultimately unobtainable since it can never exist in the first place. All in all I think that equality is probably not real. However that doesn't mean people should stop striving for their own version of equality, but come to terms with how it was shaped in the first place and see if their okay with that and then ponder whether or not it should apply to everyone cause maybe it shouldn't.
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Posted 2/20/15

seekerperson7 wrote:

Nope. Thought Charles was wrong when I watched the show and still hate that mentality now.

Adressing each part of that "speech" in turn:
1) There are different kinds of equality. All men are not equal in ability or heritage (luck basically), but all are equal in value regardless. Human value is an intrinsic part of being human. If you're human, you're equal to every other human out there in value.
2) There would be more war, violence , and unrest if people are considered unequal. See the various slave rebellions / mutinies as well as the various revolutions throughout history.
3) Britannia sucks. Military prowess and money are just about all they have. A culture revolving around nothing but Darwinian evolution is a narrow culture indeed. This is why even though their nation is so great, all the ordinary citizens seem like jerks. You need more to culture than survival of the fittest - you need loftier ideals to strive for. It's kind of sad that they just looked at nature and said "with all of our human capabilities, let's go back to living like wild animals!"

I like how they made that the mentality of the villain though. I think it's good that they mark the mentality as clearly evil. You'd be surprised how common it is


Couldn't of said it better myself but point there is incorrect their values and world views are objectivist as defined by Ayn Rand's philosophy. We have the power and money there fore we are right the flaw with her philosophy is that people aren't super human she studied Nietzsche and later moved to her own philosophy. The other problem with it is she fails to actually deal with the reality of how societies work this is more than likely because of what happened to her family when she was young during the Bolshevistic revolution and she always appears to long for a strong monarch figure in her writings. Maybe returning to her youth when her family was doing well under the Czar.

The character of anime and manga villians tend to all be cut from this mold. Strong men or women who believe that they are always in the right have strong charisma and very little to no empathy for people around them. They also have very little understand or regard for the society that they are part of. Believe that they hold up the world and are the creates of all they have achived again ignoring any society that may have been involved in that creation.

By contrast the Main characters tend to be what I refer to as you normal Heinlein character strong sense of self and morality strong sense of duty to the society they are part of and tend to collect a society that can support them around themselves when they are not able to achieve their goals on their own. they also tend to start out very naive in the world with little understand of how things work.

This is done to tell a moral story about how greed is not right and that you should contribute to the society you are part of.
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Posted 2/20/15
You have to break yourself like bane did to batman it's a pretty simple concept.
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Posted 2/20/15
Anyone can be smart if you work hard at it.
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