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Post Reply FCC enforces net neutrality
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20 / Chicago, IL
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Posted 2/26/15
I'm thankful. My ISP loves to mess around and tell me when I'm over bandwidth and decides to throttle my connections.
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35 / M
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Posted 2/26/15

Girioni wrote:


serifsansserif wrote:

Actually.. yeah.. I just realized. I never showed the proof that ISP's are already charging per the GB...

http://www.sectv.com/Web/aspInternet.aspx?strSystem=LV

They're the local competition for my current ISP.

Check the red text at the bottom of the page. After 250GB, they charge you an outrageous $1 per GB.

The next battle over the internet is being set up already.


Lol. Looked at some of their policies, check this:


Obscene: The personal use of or commercial distribution of vulgar language, sexually suggestive language, obscene language, obscene images or vulgar images which are transmitted, posted, or displayed are prohibited to traverse any PenTeleData system or any system accessible through PenTeleData. Obscenities may result in the immediate and permanent termination of your customer privileges. These activities may border on criminal depending upon circumstances and could result in Federal, State or Local Law Enforcement involvement.


yup.. it's the government that's really being an asshole about what i do on the internet..
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35 / M / USA
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Posted 2/26/15
so now they have ruled to add regulations to the internet... no matter how they try to spin it regulations kill businesses... it really does scare me that the FCC is run by big business CEO's now.
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Posted 2/26/15

Allonan wrote:

so now they have ruled to add regulations to the internet... no matter how they try to spin it regulations kill businesses... it really does scare me that the FCC is run by big business CEO's now.


Would it surprise you to learn how hard many of those CEOs fought against this?

Net Neutrality is a good and necessary thing. Sites like CR would not exist without it.
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32 / M / Atlanta, GA
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Posted 2/26/15 , edited 2/26/15
The thing I think most opposed to net neutrality don't understand is that there are very strong technical reasons behind net neutrality that are well known to technical people and very much unvoiced in this debate by the politicians and business interests involved.

There's a paper that people studying CS read from a DD Clark entitled "the design and philosophy of the darpa internet protocols" and some of the original points of net neutrality were laid out there as second level goals of the design. The best example is where Clark says networks must support a variety of services and network and lays out examples where they couldn't build voice support into tcp and had to allow for udp at the transport layer (and engineered this type of processing only once at the endpoints). At it's core, net neutrality is basically this point made long ago. If you allow people to build applications into the middle of the internet then you're inherently limiting the kinds of apps you can build on top of those protocols in the future. If you do anything other than simply store and forward messages as they come into your network as a service provider, you're building that limiting stuff in the middle and potentially killing future apps we could have in the process.

Granted quality of service type filtering is probably done everywhere to some extent, but to do what comcast did/is accused of doing by some is pretty egregious. They seriously throttled down their connectivity to a T1 provider to force netflix to pay more in their negotiations. They actively and knowingly dropped packets in order to do this. They used their monopoly power in local markets to force someone's hand. And they probably use that same power to keep competition out using all the legal tactics possible.

A competitive market is the true fix to the problem cause we could always ditch comcast when they pull this shit, but it's a libertarian pipe dream to go to all the various local governments where guys like comcast pull their shenanigans and make them stop.
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34 / M / Midwestern United...
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Posted 2/26/15 , edited 2/26/15
I would have come back and made some edits (and a response) sooner but I kept getting am error trying to access Crunchyroll.

After being told I was wrong by so many I was... not really convinced. KisaiGate gave me some enough to crack through my stubbornness so I went ahead and re-researched the matter. Had I been able to access the board some of the other clarifying comments would have helped as well. I was half remembering the situation and getting certain terms wrong. Embarrassing? Absolutely. I'm still not thrilled with the FCC being in charge of the matter but I was indeed wrong; at this point something legislative did have to happen. It seems dishonest of me to delete my foolish comments but at the same time leaving them up could lead to further confusion, hence why I'm edited this in as the first thing in my previous comments.

I am very sorry for being so foolish and arrogant in my responses.
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36 / M / Kentucky, USA
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Posted 2/26/15 , edited 2/26/15
There is alot of odd misinformation in this thread.
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34 / M / Midwestern United...
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Posted 2/26/15

TheFightFan wrote:

There is alot of odd misinformation in this thread.


There is a lot of odd misinformation on the entire subject from what I can tell. I mean as bad as some of what I wrote was, some of my misunderstanding came not just from opponents, but from proponents as well... just not from this thread.
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36 / M / Kentucky, USA
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Posted 2/26/15

KamisamanoOtaku wrote:


TheFightFan wrote:

There is alot of odd misinformation in this thread.


There is a lot of odd misinformation on the entire subject from what I can tell. I mean as bad as some of what I wrote was, some of my misunderstanding came not just from opponents, but from proponents as well... just not from this thread.


I can agree with that.
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32 / M / Atlanta, GA
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Posted 2/26/15 , edited 2/26/15

TheFightFan wrote:

There is alot of odd misinformation in this thread.

Part of that I think is because this started as a fight between a couple of internet providers and resulted in netflix having to work out deals to reach networks directly. Guys with lots of reach can put out what they want everywhere.

Do we really know who did what to who and when though? Who knows. Although I now know it wasn't really comcast throttling so much as the accusation they refused to upgrade when things became congested, prompting netflix to get direct access/connections?

http://www.cnet.com/news/level-3-accuses-six-broadband-providers-of-degrading-network-traffic/
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Posted 2/26/15 , edited 2/26/15

crazykl45 wrote:


TheFightFan wrote:

There is alot of odd misinformation in this thread.

Part of that I think is because this started as a fight between a couple of internet providers and resulted in netflix having to work out deals to reach networks directly. Guys with lots of reach can put out what they want everywhere.

Do we really know who did what to who and when though? Who knows. Although I now know it wasn't really comcast throttling so much as the accusation they refused to upgrade when things became congested, prompting netflix to get direct access/connections?

http://www.cnet.com/news/level-3-accuses-six-broadband-providers-of-degrading-network-traffic/


Oh the Net Neutrality fight has been brewing for a lot longer than that, predating Netflix's streaming service. It's just in the last year or so that's been in the mainstream media. Previously it was something only techies talked about.

It's great that we finally won a major victory today.
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36 / M
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Posted 2/26/15
Free market presupposes that you have options. If I don't use the internet that has a very large economic impact on me greatly reducing my options for employment and education. There are already very few providers for most areas. These providers already actively try to prevent others from entering my area and likely most others. Without this regulation they can use their economic muscle to increase costs for start ups and drive them out even if they have a superior product because they could force their costs higher. The cable put up for most telcoms is actually subsidized by tax dollars. They like to whine they paid for the innovation and the infrastructure. They paid for part of it, we paid for the rest of the infrastructure. Hell, they even get to take our physical property through easements to run some of that stuff where it needs to go. Then they whine that this classification will reduce how much they invest. We already lag behind every nation with similar legislation in terms of speed and quality. They seem to be arguing a position that is the opposite of what the market has done operating under similar legislation. As to the innovation, a lot of it comes from entrepreneurs, not the big players. Most of the rest is coming from universities. I don't trust the government or corporations either. They will only serve my interests so long as they align with their own. In this case though, the FCC seems like the wolf that is easier to keep out of my flock when compared to the telcoms.
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Posted 2/26/15

AiYumega wrote:

I understand how it's troubling, but the origins of the internet was government usage, and it does need regulation to a certain extent.

So honestly, I dont know what to really say, Im not fully versed on the situation and not really invested as much as others, admittedly.


The short version is this...

The major players in the telecommunication business, like ComCast, want to build an internet fast lane and sell access to this fast lane. That means they control the speed that services like Netflix, Hulu, and Crunchyroll have to the internet. Which in turn allows them to control the speed at which you as a Crunchyroll customer can send and receive data between your home and the Crunchyroll servers. They will be allowed to throttle that speed down to the point where its impossible for the service to work unless Crunchyroll pays for access to the internet fast lane. This forces Crunchyroll to raise their prices to their customers in order to cover the cost of accessing the fast lane.

This whole thing stinks of nothing but rotten greed and streaming services like Netflix and Crunchyroll will find it incredibly difficult to compete with cable television services if this internet fast lane is allowed to exist.
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23 / M / Saint Charles, Mi...
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Posted 2/26/15
The idea of Net Neutrality has a "good overtone." But what is possible now for the Government to do with the internet is frightening. I am also upset that five board members just decided the fate of the internet for the entire United States public.
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