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Posted 3/11/15

BlueOni wrote:


maxgale wrote:

Yes, I am saying exactly that otaku culture should be replaced.


For example, back when I was a university student I purged the anime club of otaku. As as result, was able to bring new people into anime and help change the culture for the better.

That needs to be done in the global fandom, most importantly in Japan.


Uh...what would that entail specifically? You really want to close down conventions? They're practically the best marketing venues possible. People go to conventions expecting to be handed tons of advertising materials and to purchase outlandish amounts of merchandise. Maybe the cosplay and some of the adult events drive passersby away from the idea of exploring anime, but it's not like the conventions have to completely purge these in order to diversify. Maybe change out one of the adult events or panels for something more wholesome and accessible, like a panel for newcomers to anime and manga, or an educational panel on anime and manga's role in Japanese history, or something else along those lines.

We don't have to take otaku items off the menu, we just need to expand its options a bit if the idea is to bring more people into anime.


Here in the States we also had a decade where it seemed like anime was going to become fully integrated into popular culture. But then we ran out of the things from the 80s and 90s to license, and the studios were in the midst of shifting to otaku in Japan. So the new material turned people away, and the otaku centric business model meant studios gouged licensees overseas, and the anime market in the States almost completely went over the brink.


Has there been a substantial decline in the amount of exported and streamed titles in North America and Europe since the 1990s? I haven't checked that data.


Not saying do away with cons, just the sort of anime otaku like.

And there certainly has been a decrease in titles from Geneon, ADV, and all the others that went kaput when the market no longer became sustainable due to market changing due to otaku.

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Posted 3/11/15

-mockingbird wrote:


maxgale wrote:





zzzzzzz

again, the quality of the show is not proportionate to how much they make per image. even the "better" shows (which may not be a good show in your view) pay bad rates. the consumer doesn't determine their salary, the company and employee do. if the show is not profitable, it's not profitable, doesn't change the rates for all the other shows.


Consumers can sometimes determine how long those animators work on a project.

Viewership can sometimes motivate companies to stick to a project. Unless the schedule is tightly controlled an anime can grow into a profit generating beast.

A few recent examples I like to point to are AssClass and World Trigger.

The former's anime launched to great success and the manga has seen a boost, up from 254,704 first week sales of volume 12(before anime) to 422,688 for volume 13(after anime).

World Trigger on the other hand was not received well and had sales of 69,982 for volume 8 before the anime go to just 153,236 for volume 9.

The same manga publisher houses both titles and as we know from a similar article they look at what effect their investment has on their business.

If results are good, that could mean further investment, which could mean more work for animation studios.
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Posted 3/11/15

maxgale wrote:

Not saying do away with cons, just the sort of anime otaku like.


Alright, but I would imagine that the amount of tweaking needing to be done would depend largely upon the convention of interest. And even then one shouldn't go too far and exclude otaku entirely.


And there certainly has been a decrease in titles from Geneon, ADV, and all the others that went kaput when the market no longer became sustainable due to market changing due to otaku.


I don't know. It's not as if ADV, Media Blasters, Central Park Media, and so on hadn't been licensing handfuls of titles which would put off the general public. The amount of extremely violent anime coming out of the 80s and 90s was staggering. Even Ranma 1/2 might be considered offputting for its nudity and transgender themes. Hell, Media Blasters and Central Park Media didn't/don't exactly shy away from hentai titles, and Central Park Media's business model was pretty much to license whatever it could besides. Between Kitty Media and Anime 18 there's a decent pile of some pretty out there titles, and they aren't all from the 2000s (though a good many are).
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Posted 3/11/15
Thats right.

If the anime works in favor of the manga , then the sales go up and that means more funding for more projects and thereby more work for animators but not necessarily more pay for some.

Alot of the studio actually send animation jobs outside Japan becuase its much much cheaper. During when the economy went down a few years ago and the sudden rise of piracy across the board, there was an article and an NHK documentary of sort about the low the income status of young animators . The young ones cant even live on their own and they work really long hours.
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Posted 3/11/15

karmacide wrote:
Is there a list of studio's that practice this sort of behavior? I wouldn't think twice about not watching or buying anything from them.

That would mean the animators will make less money. How is that helping them?!?!
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Posted 3/11/15

karmacide wrote:
They can help themselves by finding better work. It's more about not supporting unethical business practices.

They can't find other work with "animator" on their resume though.
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Posted 3/11/15

karmacide wrote:
What, are animators some sort of pariahs? Flipping burgers would be better than those conditions. With some skills and decent references you can find good work uneducated.

Exactly! And they are trapped in debt after studying to become animators, they can't afford to quit! Plus that would bring shame to their family, honor is very important to their culture.
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Posted 3/11/15

karmacide wrote:
They can't afford not to quit if they are trapped in debt. I don't know about the honor thing, but if my son or daughter was working under those conditions I would find no shame in them bettering their lives.

We can't hope to understand that culture, ours is too different. The only honorable way out is overwork or suicide (seppuku).
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Posted 3/11/15

karmacide wrote:
I find it likely that is an outdated way of thinking.

Not really. "Shame" is a highly motivating factor for that side of the world, if I may speak more broadly. Just from the movies, books, manga, and anime I see and watch (Korea, China, and Japan). It often one of the conflicts in such stories, even modern ones.
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Posted 3/12/15

BlueOni wrote:


maxgale wrote:

Not saying do away with cons, just the sort of anime otaku like.


Alright, but I would imagine that the amount of tweaking needing to be done would depend largely upon the convention of interest. And even then one shouldn't go too far and exclude otaku entirely.


And there certainly has been a decrease in titles from Geneon, ADV, and all the others that went kaput when the market no longer became sustainable due to market changing due to otaku.


I don't know. It's not as if ADV, Media Blasters, Central Park Media, and so on hadn't been licensing handfuls of titles which would put off the general public. The amount of extremely violent anime coming out of the 80s and 90s was staggering. Even Ranma 1/2 might be considered offputting for its nudity and transgender themes. Hell, Media Blasters and Central Park Media didn't/don't exactly shy away from hentai titles, and Central Park Media's business model was pretty much to license whatever it could besides. Between Kitty Media and Anime 18 there's a decent pile of some pretty out there titles, and they aren't all from the 2000s (though a good many are).


¨And even then one shouldn't go too far and exclude otaku entirely.¨

Yes, any sane person would agree to that. But here´s a tip: I got a message from ´somebody´ who basically stated that maxgale is known for thinking everyone on this forum is part of the problem, and that´s best to just ignore him because he was just gonna keep insulting me and tell me it´s my fault.

It worked; he didn't talk to me anymore. The basic idea was don´t feed the troll.

Off course otaku shouldn´t be excluded from cons; it´s fun to have events for everyone. We here have events for otaku (again, most of the visitors) such as the hentai voice over which some people might not like, but they´re at midnight, 18+, and clearly designated. (And offcourse most con goers DO love it XD). We also have history lectures, sushi workshops, papercraft workshops, cosplay lectures etc. And the AMV compo, anime competition, etc. So no matter what you like there's always something for you. Offcourse it''s attracts moslty otaku (good thing XD) but there's enough for casual fans too, as well as beginner lectures and such. There's absolutely no reason to change anything everyone is happy.

He just wants to ´purge´ all otaku from the scene because they watch different anime them him. I get the idea he is ´usually not the sunshine of the party´, if you get what I mean. If we just don´t reply anymore, the fun of baiting people by insulting them will probably wear of pretty quickly. Good idea rigth? :D

No: do you have any pictures of sexy catgirls with big boobies~ I need some otaku-ish eyebleach :3 *is off to google image search*
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