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Should pot be legal?
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27 / M
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Posted 3/10/15

karmacide wrote:

I just wish every pothead would move to Denver so I wouldn't have to listen to them talk about pot, pot legalization, and the things they do when high 24/7.

It's a weak ass drug and yet people make it the center of their lives. If I talked about coffee and cigarettes as much as they talk about pot, people would think I was a complete loser. But everytime they mention pot they are met with positive reinforcement because it's cool. Finding an identity outside of a recreational activity shouldn't be that hard.


you know what would help on that right?

legalizing it, any counter culture allure would be gone.

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Posted 3/10/15

karmacide wrote:


oodain wrote:


karmacide wrote:

I just wish every pothead would move to Denver so I wouldn't have to listen to them talk about pot, pot legalization, and the things they do when high 24/7.

It's a weak ass drug and yet people make it the center of their lives. If I talked about coffee and cigarettes as much as they talk about pot, people would think I was a complete loser. But everytime they mention pot they are met with positive reinforcement because it's cool. Finding an identity outside of a recreational activity shouldn't be that hard.


you know what would help on that right?

legalizing it, any counter culture allure would be gone.



Only in the long term. Short term everything is like Denver right now. A non-toker cannot escape even the smell. I passed through on a bus last summer and was asked if I had any bud - by three different people - in just the one hour wait at the station. One of them did indeed feel the need to rant at me about why I *should* smoke weed.

Fuck all that.


its the long run that matters.

essentially it is a social justice issue, a lame one and one that should never have been made a problem but it was.
so now that people feel they are finally free from persecution it is no wonder that there will be a period of increased activity.
i imagine that alcohol did much the same at the end of the us prohibition.

as for idiots trying to force people to do anything, they are idiots, what did you expect?
arent you being just as inflexible?
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28 / M / Mor Dhona
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Posted 3/10/15
Personally, I don't think so.

Despite popular belief pot is just as carcinogenic as tobacco, and it's well-known and documented that people who smoke marijuana tend to be listless. So nothing good really comes of it in the long term... what purpose does it serve, then?

Not only that but legalized pot would be heavily regulated just like everything else, and would also be a way for big corporations to mass even more power. I fail to see any benefit for the common populace.
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Posted 3/10/15

karmacide wrote:


oodain wrote:


karmacide wrote:


oodain wrote:


karmacide wrote:

I just wish every pothead would move to Denver so I wouldn't have to listen to them talk about pot, pot legalization, and the things they do when high 24/7.

It's a weak ass drug and yet people make it the center of their lives. If I talked about coffee and cigarettes as much as they talk about pot, people would think I was a complete loser. But everytime they mention pot they are met with positive reinforcement because it's cool. Finding an identity outside of a recreational activity shouldn't be that hard.


you know what would help on that right?

legalizing it, any counter culture allure would be gone.



Only in the long term. Short term everything is like Denver right now. A non-toker cannot escape even the smell. I passed through on a bus last summer and was asked if I had any bud - by three different people - in just the one hour wait at the station. One of them did indeed feel the need to rant at me about why I *should* smoke weed.

Fuck all that.


its the long run that matters.

essentially it is a social justice issue, a lame one and one that should never have been made a problem but it was.
so now that people feel they are finally free from persecution it is no wonder that there will be a period of increased activity.
i imagine that alcohol did much the same at the end of the us prohibition.

as for idiots trying to force people to do anything, they are idiots, what did you expect?
arent you being just as inflexible?


No. I'm not against it's legalization but the Denver model was sloppy and poorly handled. There is no protection for the MANY people who don't want to be around it or their children. If you want to raise your kid to stay away from pot - which is perfectly fair, gateway drug is not just a made up term, and it is a drug - and live in Denver? Good luck. When my state legalizes it fully I hope to god they have the foresight to extremely limit it's public use. I don't want to smell it all day, I don't want to get a contact buzz because I have to walk down a street. I don't want to try to explain to my future kids how they don't need a drug to be happy when everyone else in town is getting high. It should be at least as regulated as public tobacco use, probably a lot more.

I grew up in a family that used pot freely, and abused all kinds of other drugs as well. Weed isn't some miracle plant. It ruins lives, I have seen it firsthand so many times. If everyone wants to use it, fine, I'm not them, but if my town ever turns into denver I'm moving somewhere else.



it can ruin lives, just like alcohol, sugar and a lot of other stuff, a lot of which is necessary for modern life.
it is the absolutist bullshit on both sides that make this an issue to begin with.

i can agree to public limitations, in principle you can be arrested for being drunk on the street where i live and i am perfectly fine with it.
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Posted 3/10/15 , edited 3/10/15
The first thing to keep in mind is that there's no such thing as "bad" drugs and "good" drugs. Morphine and codeine are opioids which are very useful for preventing pain or offering pain relief during medical procedures. In that context they'd be considered "good" drugs. The context in which an opioid tablet (often OxyContin) is modified to be injected for the sake of obtaining euphoria would lead to the conclusion that opioids are "bad" drugs. So are the opioids good or bad? They're neither, and the same reasoning applies to THC. The manner of use is the thing, not the drug itself.

The next thing to examine is the relative therapeutic index of THC. As it turns out marijuana is extremely safe, with a therapeutic index of 1,000. For some context, a drug's therapeutic index is the ratio of its lethal dose for 50% of recipients over its effective dose (has its therapeutic effects) for 50% of recipients. A value of 1 means that drug is probably going to kill you, while a value of 1,000 means you'll get the therapeutic effects (in THC's case giggly, floaty feelings) eons before you get to doses that would kill 50% of recipients. Alcohol, by comparison, has a therapeutic index of 10. TEN. One and zero. As in, its lethal dose and therapeutic dose are very close to one another. The reason alcohol isn't banned in the US is because it is so much a part of US culture that it is impossible to effectively ban it.

Another point to look at is the routes of administration. Opioids can be safely administered either orally or intravenously, but it's intravenous administration which confers the rush that abusers are looking for. Intravenous administration by untrained hands is a dangerous prospect which is multiplied by the fact that the sterility of the equipment being used isn't necessarily guaranteed. Opioid users go through very orderly rituals while administering the drug, and if that ritual is interrupted or altered the results can be disastrous thanks in part to the brain's anticipation of drug receipt and partly because a desperate user isn't thinking about safety (that's why so many people are found dead in backseats with needles sticking out of their arms). Marijuana? You smoke it or take it orally. No special training needed.

Yet more to look at is the withdrawal of the drug. Withdrawal symptoms are the opposite of whatever the drug's effects are, which is why alcohol withdrawal is so dangerous: it can cause seizures and kill you. Opioid withdrawal is a miserable experience, but not dangerous like alcohol's. THC's withdrawal, as far as I'm aware, is even less dangerous.

The effects of chronic THC use are still emerging, and there are some objects which are at least concerning. But given the very high therapeutic index, low risk incurred by administration, and relatively tame withdrawal, the damage that legalization of marijuana would do to organized crime syndicates' ability to lure in customers for more valuable and harmful drugs, and the extent to which marijuana has become an integrated part of US culture, I'm inclined to think that controlled legal distribution to the general public might be the best way to go.
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25 / M
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Posted 3/10/15
hell yeah its should be legal. its still your chioce if you use it or not so why would you make it illegal because of that even more people are like lets try it. guzz be honest everything that is illegal sound way more fun then legal
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22 / M / Utopia
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Posted 3/10/15 , edited 3/10/15
It should legal and its already legal in some states and countries. The way i see it, it is less harmful than the other legal firm of recreation like alcohol and cigarettes. Also it can provide much needed money if we tax it right. It is completely stupid to send someone to jail for up to five years with our stupid drug laws when people that kill get no time.
Posted 3/10/15
Whether or not it get's legalized doesn't seem to effect me in anyway.

Unless people then wanna try harder drugs off the bat, since marijuana might loose it's allure (of being rebellious), I wouldn't mind if it got legalized.

Still I wouldn't date a smoker, or someone who takes drugs for recreational use. And I prefer to be friends with non smokers and drug users. Mostly because it's as if we live in different worlds. I won't partake in their activities, so it creates a rift and then they prefer to hang out with others who also smoke or use mind altering substances.
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Posted 3/10/15

karmacide
Sure, *can* ruin lives. I'm rarely absolute but if you want to nitpick, I'll stand corrected. It can ruin lives. Admittedly in it's abuse as an escape from social and economic stresses and even then mostly in the fact that people have a tendency to look for the "better high." I think if weed becomes legal the market for heroin, crack and meth is going to be a lot more prevalent. That's based on tertiary firsthand experience and living in a town where heroin use is already an epidemic. Medical marijuana cards are laughably easy to get here, and studies have shown that almost all users of heavy drugs started with pot.

The comparison to alcohol is fair and pretty much the reason I wouldn't vote against it's legalization, as booze off the shelf at wal-mart is undeniably more destructive. The other major reason being the abuse of possession laws against minorities by law enforcement. I just won't be at the celebration party when it does become legal.


i was being nitpicky, that i admit, but it is important to me to show nuance.

i also think you are spot on when it comes to the motivations of many abusers, but that doesnt necessarily say much of the general user, look at the Netherlands, they have more total pot users but less abusers percentage wise.

that all heavy users started with pot is probably true but doesnt say much, how many drank before that?
the studies only counted pot as it was already illegal, essentially it is the same motivations and reasons that you yourself highlighted, economic and social issues being primary factors.

i think it would be better to foster an environment where people know they can get help, even before they feel the first drink or toke is necessary.
personally what i have a problem with is people losing control from consumption, i dont care what they consume, never really had that issue with stoners, they might get so lazy that nothing gets done, which is frustrating as hellæ, but at least they stay in control.
in modern western society being drunk if fully accepted, so people are perfectly fine with themselves drinking so much that they end up acting like class A idiots, even if they make mistakes they think their intoxication is some sort of excuse.
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Posted 3/10/15
it should be legal ive never gotten sick off smoking too much. i have been really sick by drinking too much throwing up all night.
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49 / M / New England, USA
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Posted 3/10/15 , edited 3/10/15
Despite not being a user myself, I've been exposed to it quite a few times due to "second hand smoke" (at friends houses/parties/concerts/events). That's where-in my thoughts exist. I think there's nothing wrong with legalising pot IF it's handled in the right way and users are ready to accept stronger sentences/fines/punishments for disobeying these rules.

1. No smoking in public places - This rule is already out there in many places for cigarette smoke it's be just as fitting since both are actually drugs. Are you willing to accept the punishment for not only your crimes but also of anyone high from your "second hand smoke" unwillingly. You choose to light up in a public place you're the one introducing the outside element.
2. No smoking around children/minors - Bars already institute this with alchohol so it's not that far a stretch.
3. No smoking and driving - Operating under the influence would not go away just because pot is legal just as alchohol offenses don't go away.
4. Acceptance of guilt for any crimes committed while under the influence - You rob a liquor store while drunk, accidentally kill someone while driving drunk, etc you take responsibility. You were all fired up to waste your life, it's your choice but once you bring others into that choice you're taking away thier rights which are are as equally important as yours.

Should alchohol be fully regulated under these similar rules? I think so. Unfortunately, with all the closet alchoholics in positions of power this only tends to get worse not better.
Should cigarettes be regulated under these similar rules? Most definitely yes. It's headed in that direction. I suffer from weak lungs due to second hand cigarette smoke/living with a chainsmoker and never smoking a day in my life. I can picture how many other non-smokers in a similar situation have similar health issues as the Dr who told me said he sees it all the time.

As for the comment of pot being a herb or a plant (I mostly hear from people who want neither regulation nor acceptance of punishment for thier screwups while under the influence); I suspect no one who uses the excuse/argument ever looked up the terms poison ivy, poison sumac, belladonna (deadly nightshade). They're just plants/herbs too but would you smoke them? Lame excuse.

That all said I see nothing against drinkers wasting thier lives responsibly, or smokers or yes even drug users or addicts. It's thier choice as long as they do it responsibly.
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101 / M
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Posted 3/10/15
I wasn't thinking of Heroin or Morphine, Just the old fashion Smoking Opium. Morphine are stronger than Opium, and the Heroin is the strongest because it enter the Blood barrier quicker in the brain.. This what I read. That why Heroin is on Control Substance Act I (Non-Medical) Because its mainly to get High instead of medical. It got powerful addiction. With Morphine it can be controlled and you won't get addiction to it as long you don't stay on them for certain days.

When My father recieved a bad new that he is dying, they let him take Morphine at home.. This surpised me because I thought.. only way to be on them is to be at Hospital. The lady who is taking care of him had to write down the time and the doses she give to my Father so there won't be abuse or one of his friends decided to steal it and sell it. When my father died, First thing the head nurse do is go over to the house before everyone got there and she would put Morphine in the lock box and put them in car than back to the house to wait for us.. They had to be very careful with it, because if it gone missing or taken lot, they'll get in trouble with DEA.



Anyway back to Opium...They did some lab to create something with Opium that how Morphine and Heroin came into the picture, they said that the Opium only got 2 or 3 hours of duration, While Morphine is around 4 hours, and Heroin is like 4 to 6 hours, but it enter blood barrier in the brain quicker.. Meaning get you High faster.

I agreed with you that Needle is dangerous.. I never tried out Opium, or Heroin, only did Morphine of course everybody have, due to going to Hospital. :p I went there because I keep getting Kidney stone in the past, the pain isn't fun at all!

But problem with Opium is that once you been on them for so long, you body depend on it.. If you just happen to go on Vacation and forgot to bring Opium with you.. You'll be experiencing deadly withdrawal known as cold Turkey. That why when they take one, they felt so much better. But they no longer get high off of it because their body and mind have adjust to it.. But in order to lead a normal life, they have to take it everyday without missing a Dose.

My main concern is what if Citizen been on Pot for long time and they no longer get the desire pleasure from them.. So they go for stronger version of the Drugs, and start asking Government to Legalize Morphine or Opium for recreational reason which is bad idea.

Sorry if I'm causing confusion heh XD.

JanusCascade






BlueOni wrote:


JanusCascade wrote:

Why don't they just legalize Opium, why start with the weakest Drug of all the Pot! Might as well go all the way to the top which is Opium.


The risk of respiratory depression is one of the big reasons, as are the potential problems brought on by people administering intravenously without the necessary training to do so safely. Unsterilized needles are a big problem for public health efforts at reducing bloodborne diseases as well, though distributing sterile needles has helped. The biggest problem of all is that there just aren't any better drugs out there for treating mental and physical pain than the opioids. The search continues, but they're as good as it gets for now. So abuse continues.


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