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Post Reply Consciousness and Machines
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
We all see that technology advances by leaps and bounds. Just a few decades ago, the idea of perfect mechanical replacements for body parts was almost a dream. There is no doubt in my mind that there will be incredible improvements and innovations in cybernetic technology in the upcoming century. Improvements and innovations that, perhaps, we can't even imagine now.

Our brains are the least understood of all organs in our bodies. It is commonly believed that it is too complex to replicate. But...what if a perfect cybernetic parts for transplanting into brains (maybe to restore function/"back up" memories before a brain surgery) could be constructed and put into a human being? We might one day find a way to gather information stored in the brain and perhaps transfer that into sufficiently sophisticated devices such an artificial brain. I'm pretty certain that artificial brains of such complexity will be developed. It's only a matter of time.

Question is....would that person with a cybernetic replacements in his brain still be truly conscious and human? What if the most or all of the brain is beyond cybernetic and just fully-mechanical, non-biological devices? What if the data stored in a brain was somehow transferred into a machine and the machine simply uses that data to create a 'being' that exists only in cyberspace, in a computer-generated non-physical world? Would that 'being' still be conscious and considered as real as the original person, even without a biological component?

When does humanity and consciousness end and mere artificial mimicry begin? Is there even a line? We don't think much about whether a person is still human if he has an artificial heart or a prosthetic limb. Artificial brains might change this. Discuss.
Posted 3/18/15
You're not thinking of the movie Singularity, are you? The protagonist lost his humanity as a result of the mind uploading. think its possible that the change from how the brain processes information to how a computer processes information, might be an interesting thing to think about. If someone were to gain the ability type pages of text in a nanosecond they might seem less than human,, and artificial to others.
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Posted 3/18/15

Aeolist wrote:

You're not thinking of the movie Singularity, are you? The protagonist lost his humanity as a result of the mind uploading. think its possible that the change from how the brain processes information to how a computer processes information, might be an interesting thing to think about. If someone were to gain the ability type pages of text in a nanosecond they might seem less than human,, and artificial to others.


I don't watch many movies so I don't know what went on in that one. Sounds like I should watch it, though. I've always thought about this.
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Posted 3/18/15
I think in the interest of replicating a human being a machine will not suffice no matter how advance; my positive side make me want to believe we (humans) are more precious than that. However I do wish sometimes that certain objects say my robot toy or stuff animal will just come to life.
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Posted 3/18/15


But seriously, I look forward to the day I can sit down and have a deep conversation with something non-human
Posted 3/18/15
The problem i see is that we know that we aren't our brains. While the brain controls most of the functions in the body, we can live without a good portion of our brain being intact. That leads me to believe that since we aren't our brains then there's something else that keeps us going in life.

What does it mean to be human exactly? Is it our self awareness, emotions, ect. ect. ?

If an android in the future has all the attributes of a person, self aware, emotions, artificial tears, whatever else does it mean that its human, if not artificial? I don't think we can answer the questions at hand without first knowing what a human truly is and i don't mean in a scientific or religious way but in the word itself.

Replacing the brain won't make you not human, though if you replaced your entire body i would wonder would you still be you or would you essentially be a artificial machine clone of yourself or would you be you just essentially an android? In order to solve that riddle i think we first must understand if there truly is a soul or not.

Im not really good at these type of subjects on the net, due to having a hard time trying to relay my thoughts into a text format.
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15

KyotoTofu wrote:

The problem i see is that we know that we aren't our brains. While the brain controls most of the functions in the body, we can live without a good portion of our brain being intact. That leads me to believe that since we aren't our brains then there's something else that keeps us going in life.

What does it mean to be human exactly? Is it our self awareness, emotions, ect. ect. ?

If an android in the future has all the attributes of a person, self aware, emotions, artificial tears, whatever else does it mean that its human, if not artificial? I don't think we can answer the questions at hand without first knowing what a human truly is and i don't mean in a scientific or religious way but in the word itself.

Replacing the brain won't make you not human, though if you replaced your entire body i would wonder would you still be you or would you essentially be a artificial machine clone of yourself or would you be you just essentially an android? In order to solve that riddle i think we first must understand if there truly is a soul or not.

Im not really good at these type of subjects on the net, due to having a hard time trying to relay my thoughts into a text format.


i would like to see some sources for this,

we can function without a complete pristine brain yes but never has there been brain damage without personality, intellectual or physical effects directly observable in the brain.

just because people survive brain damage doesnt mean it doesnt have an effect and in turn says nothing about whether we are only our brains or not.
also your comment about religious vs scientific makes little sense, what did you mean by it?
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Posted 3/18/15
Optomus Prime's consciousness is only consisted of 1.2 megabytes and stored in a floppy disk. Haha haha

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Posted 3/18/15
There is one major issue with this

You see one of the amazing things about our brains is how they adapt and grow. More so when young but even later in life it happens a little. The brain adapts and grows overtime and retains everything. We may personally forget things but it's always somewhere in our heads. So when talking about "artificial brains" you are talking about a machine that is not only capable of storing electrical signals of the brain but can grow and adapt in order to keep up with all brain proccesses and store all memories. This isn't as simple as a mechanical limb (which isn't actually simple but in comparison to a brain it is) which you just have to make able to respond to signals sent though the body and move properly. So I'm not sure if we could ever reach the point to create a proper artificial substiture for the brain. Anything we could make would just be a poor substitute for what out actual brains can do.
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Posted 3/18/15

Metazoxan wrote:

There is one major issue with this

You see one of the amazing things about our brains is how they adapt and grow. More so when young but even later in life it happens a little. The brain adapts and grows overtime and retains everything. We may personally forget things but it's always somewhere in our heads. So when talking about "artificial brains" you are talking about a machine that is not only capable of storing electrical signals of the brain but can grow and adapt in order to keep up with all brain proccesses and store all memories. This isn't as simple as a mechanical limb (which isn't actually simple but in comparison to a brain it is) which you just have to make able to respond to signals sent though the body and move properly. So I'm not sure if we could ever reach the point to create a proper artificial substiture for the brain. Anything we could make would just be a poor substitute for what out actual brains can do.


The ability to change and adapt in not necessarily something we couldn't give a computer, I agree its complicated and beyond are current capabilities but 100 years ago who could have predicted we would be as far along as we are today. Alternatively perhaps the future lies in living organic computers.
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Posted 3/18/15
Lose your humanity?From where I sit considering the eons of bloody human history there could be a lot worse things.Humanity is inherently self destructive.Ask yourself what peaceful alien race,what ever that means, would contact earth for the purpose of peaceful interaction?Only delusional ones considering our combined history. Additional "artificial" Intelligence added to the human psyche couldn't make things much worse. Losing self might be more of an apt concern, or at least a primal one.
Posted 3/18/15
Easier if they just create artificial consciousness
Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
All is one. One is all. Cut an apple in half and you get half the apple, not a new apple. A teleportation device must send the same unique particles from location A to B to count as teleportation. It must not resort to producing new identical particles with the same fingerprints. Same goes for brains.

El psy kangaroo.
Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
I think one must first answer the question of what consciousness really is. How do we define it? How do we measure it? What are the things that constitute human consciousness? Is it simply perception and self-awareness or does it go deeper than that? If a machine can perceive, think, and adapt, as well as make decisions on its own, does it already possess a certain level of consciousness?

I can't say that I have answers for any of these questions, but they are interesting to think about and explore. Another interesting thing to consider is if we, humans, do recognize consciousness being developed by machines or others we do not consider human, how would we react to it? Would it be a threat or a new phenomenon to explore?

I think movies and shows like Ghost in the Shell, Bladerunner, and Chappie explore these ideas in interesting ways.
Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
personally believe the brain is an exception. the brain is what makes a person... it's your personality, your emotions, your consciousness etc. other organs don't contribute to any of that. the brain controls all the other organs... but fundamentally it's the DNA that controls everything really...

so having an artificial brain inside a biological body template doesn't really make that thing a person; it would still be an android. whereas if all of your body parts are metals and only the brain is biological, it would still be a person....

__________


What's that anime where the guy lost his body and had to get robotic body... I can't remember the anime's name... I feel old... trying, but can't get the name or what the character even looks like...

__________


There are just some things human cannot re-create; and I believe consciousness is one of those things. humans can't re-create a universe, because we have no clue what caused the universe in the first place.

I read something about a successful bionic heart made the other day. and am just like... it's way easier to use a biological heart made from embryonic stem cells... from your own gametes.


edit: the anime is black bullet lol... wth can't believe I forgotten about it... only watched it like last year... I need to do more brain exercise.
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