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Post Reply Why are people against piracy?
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24 / M / UK
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
Ive been thinking this for as long as I can remember but decided to make a topic about since there was something about it in the Crunchyroll news section.

EDIT:-- I will point out before anyone says anything, I do have a paid for premium membership here on Crunchyroll and buy ALOT of the merchandise as I am all for supporting the industry.

Do you view piracy as bad? Or as stealing?
I personally dont.
Forget about movies etc, we'll just talk Anime and Manga.
Why does someone decided to actually WATCH illegally streamed Anime?
For me, its because I live in the UK and almost every show does not get streamed here, its a complete joke.
So as a fan, what do I do if I cant take part in my own fandom? You have to go to other means.
What would stop piracy?
Make it easier to watch legally, simply!
I honestly dont even believe it is stealing if its literally not available to watch in my region in the first place.
And then the DVD/BD are even worse! They seem to cost on average of around £40. Whats that, about $60?
And sometimes that only for a couple of episodes! Most fans cant pay that.

I think what bugs me the most is that industries such as this seem to do everything they can to stop fans from actually taking part. All they want is the money from licenses and DVD sales, at the detriment to fans who want to be involved.

I know this is obviously a hot topic and LOTS of people will disagree with me, which I understand.

But what are your thoughts?
Koda89 
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27 / M / Oklahoma City, OK
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Posted 3/18/15
Well it is illegal. So by the very definition of the law, it is a bad thing to do. But as you point out sometimes you have no real choice in the matter. Plain and simply, when it comes to anime it is more or less tiered by where you live, and basically it ties into how I feel about anime piracy.

If you live in Japan, the US, or Canada, I don't really think you should be pirating, unless, if you live in one of the latter two countries, you have an internet connection so shitty that streaming isn't a viable option for you(I say this, because between CR and FUNi, which is available in both countries, the overwhelming majority of each seasons' shows can be watched legally, and for a relatively cheap price, too).

If you live elsewhere, well, pirating may be something you'll have to do, because show licenses become a bit more muddled and there is a good chance you might not have a lot of the shows you want to watch licensed in your region. Or you could be living in a country where the internet is crap across the board, making streaming an absolute no-go, even if you wanted to go that route.
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24 / M / UK
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Posted 3/18/15

Koda89 wrote:

Well it is illegal. So by the very definition of the law, it is a bad thing to do. .


I will state that I dont feel particularly comfortable doing it, my point is simply that I want to take part in something I enjoy and sometimes pirating is the only way to do it.
The problem we have in the UK is our licensing laws. As I understand it, in the US if you own a license you have to actively use it or lose it. In the UK you can own a license and do literally nothing with it. Which makes it hard for places like crunchyroll to get the license for here. So a company will buy a license and literally not use it simply so that noone else can have it.
And why do they do that? To drive up DVD sales because its the only other legal way to watch these shows...
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Posted 3/18/15
Idk i really dont mind, I read for example manga in illegal websites since I dont have access to a place where I can legally read for example Toriko weekly

Or I watch Nanatsu No Taizai in another sites because theres no way to watch it legally

I still pay for crunchyroll for example though
Koda89 
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Posted 3/18/15

Scooty-Bby wrote:


Koda89 wrote:

Well it is illegal. So by the very definition of the law, it is a bad thing to do. .


I will state that I dont feel particularly comfortable doing it, my point is simply that I want to take part in something I enjoy and sometimes pirating is the only way to do it.
The problem we have in the UK is our licensing laws. As I understand it, in the US if you own a license you have to actively use it or lose it. In the UK you can own a license and do literally nothing with it. Which makes it hard for places like crunchyroll to get the license for here. So a company will buy a license and literally not use it simply so that noone else can have it.
And why do they do that? To drive up DVD sales because its the only other legal way to watch these shows...


I dunno. FUNi has quite a few licenses here that they are seemingly just sitting on(seriously, they have Code Geass, Haruhi, and Lucky Star, and it's been quite a while since I've heard anything from them in regards to streaming or releasing them....... )

But yes, it is a bit of a rough situation you're in.
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42 / M / Tampa FL, USA
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
If you are a true fan then you would want the industry and/or the people who make what you love to thrive -- in order to thrive the talent must be able to make a living doing the work. In order to make a living making the work, fans who consume the media must pay.

Talent cannot live on air and "goodwill" -- they need money too.

Pirating takes away from the ability of talented creators to create work you say you love -- by pirating you are making it harder for more good work to be created.

The reality is: without adequate funds the creators (and companies they work for) move onto a different way to make a living... and you lose out.

Pirating is an incredibly short-sighted activity... at some point you have to "put your money where your mouth is".

That said, if you cannot legally support the media in your country that is really beyond your control... but if you can legally support something, you should.
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24 / M / UK
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15

jason_maranto wrote:

If you are a true fan then you would want the industry and/or the people who make what you love to thrive -- in order to thrive the talent must be able to make a living doing the work. In order to make a living making the work, fans who consume the media must pay.

Talent cannot live on air and "goodwill" -- they need money too.

Pirating takes away from the ability of talented creators to create work you say you love -- by pirating you are making it harder for more good work to be created.

The reality is: without adequate funds the creators (and companies they work for) move onto a different way to make a living... and you lose out.

Pirating is an incredibly short-sighted activity... at some point you have to "put your money where your mouth is".

That said, if you cannot legally support the media in your country that is really beyond your control... but if you can legally support something, you should.


Well this is why its a sticky situation for me, because I completely agree with you.

However I do actually have a premium membership here on Crunchyroll so I dont ever simply take it all for free. Plus I still buy some DVDs and ALOT of the merchandise.
I am all for supporting the industry but my problem is that the industry constantly says not to pirate, and rightly so, however they also dont do as much as they could to help us fans...
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42 / M / Tampa FL, USA
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
Absolutely. It is incumbent on the content producers to make it possible for fans to pay -- if they do not do that then the failure to participate in the process is theirs (and IMO they will not be in business for much longer).
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34 / M / Scotland
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Posted 3/18/15
Im with the OP really... being from the UK (and by default europe) which sucks for anime exposure. Not only is anime extremely difficult to access for many to expose themselves to and become dedicated paying fans for but to actually try and see if you like certain anime your paying extortionate rates just to watch a couple of episodes at a time on the off chance you will like it and im talking old series here not just brand new awesome ones (why does Gundam 00 Season 2 cost three times as much as season one? lol).

As such it makes anime extremely niche to enjoy, even more so if your more into manga. If you live in a city maybe you have a chance but realistically for everyone else your beaten from the offset. This leaves middle of the way approaches instead... sites like CR and Netflix to try and expose you to awesome anime instead which is great though i dont know how much the creators actually get financially from our sub money in real terms. The issue does not detract with even them though... like One Piece? Of course you do - its like the biggest anime around! Yet even that doesnt get shown here on dedicated sites like CR in the UK because of licensing, hell even older series like Fist of the North Star or Gundam Wing is a no no as well because of licensing. This is madness... its ok for Koei to release licensed games for Gundam or Fist of the North Star yet we cant actually watch the anime they are based on without shelling out incredible sums of money when it should be the opposite - where games like that make you want to go out and start funding extra resources to the creators to the core content yet we are priced out of doing so or its just too damned difficult to find alternative means of watching the anime in question by using sites like this because for all we can sub we still wont get the content we most want to see.

As such yeah ive watched the odd series illegally because i personally couldnt afford the alternatives. A shame really as ive loved anime all my life. Im in my thirties and partially deaf from a family where deafness runs in the family so for us it was growing up watching asian subtitled movies in the days before subtitles were standard on your tv - it was all Seven Samurai or Godzilla or to my great delight Manga anime like Akira... which is another depressing thought? Manga has an App does it not? Well not in the Uk it doesnt, again its another source of anime we cant access without great difficulty. Is it any wonder the creators need as much of our money as they can get - they make all this awesome content, have a userbase just dying to be tapped into but somewhere along the process neither side can get what they want despite wanting the same things. Its no wonder Anime is niche in the UK and i dare say Europe in general. Piracy is the only reason so many of us have heard of most of these series people love... you dont even see them all that much on standard tv packages - not least the adult non cartoon network aimed series at least.
Dragon
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Posted 3/18/15
Looks like there was a thread about this over at /forumtopic-839029/pirating-entertainment. Normally I'd close this as a dupe, but in this case, that thread hasn't been active in a while, so I'll be closing it and directing folks here. Still, might be worth a read-through, since many of the same ideas came up already.
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from the South Bay
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
well this was a huge topic when Crunchyroll barelly became legal .

Since you are from the UK , you are in a situation the US viewers were many years ago, where the thirst for new anime was in demand and the industry were slow on the uptake in the world of internet,
Even up to now there are still tons of illegal streaming sites originating from countries where there is no control or policing over the net etc etc which is a form of piracy ,its just a matter of watching there or not.


Manga is following the same way although some companies are trying to get their work available outside Japan via the net but its still lagging way way behind . Some Apps here and there but they are not from the publishing companies except for Viz and ...cant remember ...but only a few in comparison to the tons of manga published in Japan and their library is still small in comparison to the fan translated ones.

And then you have regionall restrictions , the license etc etc.

Now some publishing company or production company are starting to do early streaming release of the english dubb ADR product of current Japanese realease anime ,well they should have done this a while ago too since there is has been a decline on sales of dvd and bluray format due to the economy, restrictions and of course piracy.

However,,,Now that it is available legally to me, I have been strong supporter of these sites , to show that this business model does work and that the other companies will realize that the consumers are not from Japan alone and vise versa with the english ADR release
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Posted 3/18/15
For me, piracy is all based on whether something is legally available. I'm in the USA and some titles, for whatever reason, are not picked up here in the USA. How else am I supposed to watch them.
I'll also add in a case where I had absolutely no qualms pirating the show. I bought a physical copy of the show and one of the disks was bad. Did an exchange, and another disk was bad. I did another exchange and still had a bad disk (different disks with each exchange). I said to hell with it and went and downloaded a copy of the show.

But, I always try to pay for the show in some way. This is what pays to have more shows created for everyone to enjoy. I know people who are published authors. They actually make their living (and support their families) based on how well their books sell. When enough people pirate something, it actually does rob the creators of these works.
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45 / M / Canada
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
Why hate piracy? Simply because when you watch it illegally, no money goes to the people who made the show. The illegal download or streaming site probably has ads if you don't block them but of course the revenue from those ads will only go to the illegal site.

Now if there is no legal way for you to view the show due to licensing restrictions then, well... Some will argue that they have already given up the opportunity to make money off you so what does it matter?

Personally I hate delays so I watch wherever I can watch it when it is first convenient for me and then I watch it later on the legal site if available to give it the streaming views it needs to get paid. I understand why they have delays, so people in Japan watch it live with ads but I hate the delay so I often watch live streams when convenient for me and strangely enough, I import the CDs and Blurays and books which are advertised so while illegal, it is helping them when I see those illegal rebroadcasts. I buy orphaned shows from Japan because I can watch them illegally. I wish I could see it here on time with ads, then they could take the ads away at a later time but I suspect that will never happen so I watch lo-res livestreams...

Since anime from Crunchyroll, Funimation and Daisuke is copied and uploaded right after it is shown here, the licensing restrictions do not actually do anything to limit the availability of the show to determined viewers. So they are only losing money by refusing to give Crunchyroll worldwide rights. If it can be viewed it can be copied and uploaded so it is quite silly to think you can control your content today.
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Posted 3/18/15
Because they dont understand how hard it is to watch anime legally in a third world country where you get 2/5 titles licensed for your region.
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Posted 3/18/15
a few sources aside, I'm sympathetic to pirates because it often feels like the companies would rather have it that way. "Don't steal from us, but we're going to make your experience only as tolerable as we have to, and charge as much as we can"

$40 to own a disc with two episodes is too damned much. similar prices for CD's is too much.

It's hard to argue with a logic that says that piracy can act as a third arm here, and depress prices because companies have done the above.

I also have a paid membership here.
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