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Post Reply Why are people against piracy?
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25 / F / New Jersey, USA
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
I always watch anime on sites that aren't Crunchyroll. I'm impatient, cheap, and gotten use to watching shows on those sites.
If I were to use Crunchyroll to watch a show, it's either a drama I couldn't find but here.

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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/20/15
Here's why piracy is wrong:

1. It is theft. Just because you want something really badly doesn't give you the right to take it. The owners of the intellectual property have the right to decide how their property gets distributed and who gets to see it. Whether we like it or not, it's their property.

Think about your own property. If anyone could just walk up and take your car because they wanted it badly enough, that wouldn't be OK. Intellectual property may be intangible, but it is still very much real. Or, if you go into a store and the TV you want is too expensive, the high price doesn't give you the right to take it because you can't afford it or it is somehow "unfair".

2. It's illegal. As much as I don't like this argument because the law is not always right, the law stands against theft in this case. I agree with it.

To the claim that you can pirate and still support the "anime industry": Buying something else is supporting something else while stomping on the work of the people you pirated from. I can't buy a figure of Goku and pirate DBZ saying I'm supporting the industry rightly. Could I say that if I bought the series and then stole the action figure?
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M / New Jersey
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Posted 3/18/15
I'll probably take shit for this, but here goes...

I don't agree with piracy, and personally, I avoid it. There are those who justify their actions with arguments such as "if they made it legally available" or "if it were cheaper", but use analogy:

"I really like this car, and it's been sitting in the lot for five years with nobody using it, so nobody will care if I take it"

The arguments tend to fall down to soft costs vs. hard costs. It's easy to use soft costs arguments for digital media, but the reality is there are people behind the product who have their own hard costs, so it's quite the same. An indie manga artist working 12 hours a day will probably care about this.

I probably won't respond to any rebuttals, because I'm sitting here waiting for my CISSP class to start, and if you know what CISSP, you'll probably understand my point.
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36 / M / Planet Sanno
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
I am open about my anti-piracy stance, but I am sympathetic to users living in countries where many of the shows we watch are not legally available. On the other hand, I get extremely irate when I think about the more dangerous kind of piracy, and that is the kind practiced in China, where it is essentially an industry, rather than the actions of a few desperate fans.
Le_Dom 
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24 / M / Montreal
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
My stance on piracy is on piracy is that if you live in North America, you have practically no excuse to torrent. Well I can say that if a show isn't available on any legal streaming websites and it hasn't gotten a home video release in your country/continent then it's acceptable on the ground that the more people will watch the show, the more likely it's gonna be legally accessible later on.

Every other excuse I can think of holds no water:

It's expensive

Well it's expensive to make too, also doesn't help that it's niche and therefore the industry wouldn't profit much if the discs were cheap. Besides, the prices are much better nowadays, especially if you look at Funimation.

They won't lose much money if I steal it.

That's an argument I've only seen in video games piracy, but I think it applies here too. Would you walk in your HMV store, and then steal a copy of every anime that interests you if you could get away with it? Not to mention that this creates a domino effect; I'm confident that if every anime fan in NA owned a premium account on this very website alone, it could do miracles. But of course, most of them are busy whining about how 7$/month is too much to ask or make up excuses like ''the subs are terrible''.

As much as I want to help, I have literally no money

That's what CR and Funi are here for. Even with a free account, you have access to so many shows, enough to occupy you until you find the means to finance your hobby. Speaking of; anime is a hobby and therefore you aren't entitled to it. The very least you can do is accept to watch ads and wait a week to watch the more recent episodes.

Whelp, I wanna try before I buy

This is only a legit reasoning if you DO purchase it if you watch the entire thing and love it. And again, why then torrent the entire series when you could watch a few episodes online for free. The latter seems like a much more reasonable try before you buy.

The industry doesn't care about piracy

Yup, they definitely don't; that's why you can go to jail for that in Japan.

Yeahhh I just downloaded all the episodes of Attack on Titan! WTF Funimation make season 2 already!!!!! And why are there so many crappy girl shows this season?! This SUUUUUCKS!!!!

You've never spent a single dime on anime. You have no right to make any demands or complaints. Please leave.

Anime is such a niche industry that it's a huge shame that there's a sadly high percentage (majority?) of fans who shamelessly steal it. It's not in my power to prevent anyone to pirate, but then I see them telling others how to torrent, link them to illegal websites and (the worst) discourage them from buying the DVDs and it just upsets me like crazy.

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Posted 3/18/15
In all fairness, have I watched Anime from pirate sites? yes

Do I think it's wrong? yes

Only time I do watch a show on those sites is when it isn't available legally, especially where OVAs are concerned. (It was the only way I could finish watching Oreimo, for example)

Manga, if I like a series enough, I'll buy the translated takabons when they become available where I live.
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18 / M / Korriban
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Posted 3/18/15
About piracy, just in general, I always just thought it was illegal because it was a form of stealing, and because it could be bad for economic stuff...

That said, I still watch anime on sites that I don't pay for, since I can't find the entire series elsewhere.
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27 / M / Near a peach tree.
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Posted 3/18/15
Because they assume it's stealing, but that's not really a fact. Can you really make a copy of a premium car if you steal it?
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Posted 3/18/15
I think it's primarily the eyepatch.
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
The illegal product has better quality than the legal variant in this field.

Get a bunch of skilled college students and damn can they churn out some good quality subs. Eye candy is also a big factor in choosing what subs to watch (I'm talking about typesetting here).

Some time ago, people used fansubs since legal subs were usually sub-pa, but that doesn't seem to be as much as the case anymore.
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26 / The Raggedy Edge
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
I do view piracy as bad, but in the case of digital goods and property it's not so easy to define it as stealing as its owner still has it; and as long as it isn't being redistributed at profit, it's not as damaging as it's often made out to be.

There's a whole host of reasons ranging from ignorance of legal alternatives (or even that the sites they're using are illegal), defiant attitudes toward the way legal sites conduct business, of course the infamous entitlement wanting everything for nothing. For myself it's always been a combination of factors; mostly unreliable internet and licensing restrictions.

I'll sort of disagree with you on what would stop piracy, nothing will stop it. That's not to say you can't take steps to curtail it, of course. The 'what' that will stop piracy is unfortunately caught in an inevitable downward spiral. Producers need to make ends meet and will do so in any way that they can (especially if they've been bottlenecked into financial collapse); hence tighter regulation of their IP on the internet, and higher pricing of their products to make the needed return. Of course, this doesn't endear consumers who initially went into piracy ignorant of the damage they were doing when they're forced to buy products at highly inflated prices.
What the main reasons are, however, are; ignorance, entitlement, net streaming limitations, and licensing restrictions (especially for folks like myself in the UK). What would certainly curtail piracy within the industry is an open platform for distribution; on that subject I'll advocate things like Steam, PSN, XBLA, etc. While they are yes, for games, there's nothing preventing video media being timed downloadable content attached to a dedicated player; in the UK the BBC has the iPlayer for example. I honestly don't know why this option hasn't really been brought up before, or if it has, what failed and why it never came back to the stage.

I'll agree that DVD/BD series are exceptionally pricy (relatively speaking), but they are a very niche product - although, I'll agree 2 episodes for 40-60 is extreme at least outside Japan. The anime fandom is massive, but the buying percentage is still very small so it's all priced at a premium. Despite the costs, I'm okay paying a lot for a product if I know that it's worth it. The try/watch-before-you-buy proviso is from where the problem stems; tight control is understandable and reasonable, but it doesn't help expand the market as the number of people aware of what they're buying into is smaller as a result. Fandoms and enthusiasts can and do fork out absurd amounts of money for things they 'know' that they will like.
In that, it's mostly the problem of the 'knowing' rather than anything else. A lot of people I know watch anime (legally or otherwise), and I am beside my siblings, the only one who regularly buys DVDs or Blu-ray's of titles that I've watched and liked. I'm a little old fashioned in that sense, I like my hard copies, but most consumers are content with digital goods at digital prices.

As a closing note to this perhaps needlessly longwinded puddle of word vomit; piracy outside a market is almost a non-thing (akin to accusing aliens of stealing TV broadcasts), what the anime and manga industry needs is an internationally open and active market, as there are probably millions more than happy to buy.
Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/19/15

jason_maranto wrote:

If you are a true fan then you would want the industry and/or the people who make what you love to thrive -- in order to thrive the talent must be able to make a living doing the work. In order to make a living making the work, fans who consume the media must pay.


How do you know if you're a fan if you haven't seen it yet?
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F / a mitten
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Posted 3/18/15
As a manga fan, I hate and loathe piracy because it is so widespread, and impossible to take back. I think anime has reached a somewhat stable point with the easy access to legal streams (in NA, certainly). But for manga publishers, there's no feasible way to publish everything, and readers/scanlators take that as their excuse to illegally distribute whatever they want. Then, because their scans are soon copied onto every manga aggregator site you can think of, anyone looking to read the manga series will find it on those sites (which make a profit for the site-builder off ads) and may not even realize they're getting illegal content. Furthermore, once a publisher DOES license the series, those scans don't just disappear. Even if the group scanlating decides to stop (which I think happens less and less frequently these days), the dozen or more volumes they already scanlated are still EVERYWHERE online.

At this point, publishers have outright said that if a series is heavily scanlated, they don't want to publish it, even if it's popular and frequently requested. They have cited REAL examples of series that should've been huge hits but bombed in sales, or that a later, never-scanlated volume suddenly jumped in sales compared to earlier volumes. For example, see Shojo Beat's recent [url=https://www.facebook.com/OfficialShojoBeat/posts/949306661769093]facebook post. I know there are fans who read scans and buy as well, but understand that you are exceptions, and absolutely not the norm.

I don't understand the logic behind many scanlators or scan-distributors these days. If they care so much about the story and the author, wouldn't they want to support that author by encouraging legal releases? If the point is to introduce a series or give readers a sample, one or maybe two volumes would surely be enough—anything beyond that can no longer be considered sampling, only stealing. To me the people who read and create and distribute scans seem very entitled and selfish and impatient.
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Posted 3/18/15

suzulys wrote:

But for manga publishers, there's no feasible way to publish everything, and readers/scanlators take that as their excuse to illegally distribute whatever they want. Then, because their scans are soon copied onto every manga aggregator site you can think of, anyone looking to read the manga series will find it on those sites (which make a profit for the site-builder off ads) and may not even realize they're getting illegal content.


To be fair, if they are hosting it themselves they might just be looking to pay for the cost of running the site. A lot of ads only pay per click rather than view and only about 1% of ads ever get selected. Of course there may be some making a profit and they likely see it as a necessity to provide what they see as a service. It is hard to love an art that can be difficult to get your hands on. Also a lot of people buy the Japanese editions and create the translated versions online.
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M / Baltimore
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
I don't take issue with piracy. It's a matter of freshman level economics. Technological innovation rendered the old business model, based around physical copies, obsolete. It is the responsibility of the firms to adapt to digital platforms, or die. Anti-piracy laws have only distorted markets, reducing incentive to innovate, rather than fixing market inefficiencies. Anime has adapted well. While I do not know how profitable streaming services are for creators, the amount of anime licensed and legally available has increased dramatically since Crunchyroll began offering licensed anime streams. It is the too the point where I rarely watch fansubs. Crunchyroll (and Funi) offer a service I can't get from pirated anime - mobile and video game console apps. Both services are also affordable. I pay a combined $13 ($4.99 for Funi's Subtitle only package) for both. The only pirates that consistently release in a timely manner these days are Horrible Subs, who are only ripping from streaming sites, anyway. Considering the low price and high value of the apps, I'd rather just pay than watch HR rips. The only time I watch subs now is if a show is not being streamed at all. The same goes for music. I have no sympathy for the industry. They spent decades price gauging me. But now that there are good, free streaming sites I have largely stopped pirating music. The resurgence of vinyl makes music worth buying again. I'd rather listen on Spotify and buy records than steal music now. That's not an ideological position, but a practical one.
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