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Post Reply Why are people against piracy?
LokiLB 
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Posted 3/18/15

Le_Dom wrote:


LokiLB wrote:


Jhackler wrote:

I run into a difficult situation of wanting digital copies of stuff to store in my media server at home, my own personal collection. However I don't always want to buy a physical copy and a lot of the places that sell any shows or movies online either have terrible drm or require special programs that are not on Linux for the downloads themselves. I refuse to change my os to just to be allowed to purchase something, which sucks because I would gladly shop on iTunes. When I upgrade my storage I plan to buy my favorite animes and tv shows on blueray so I can produce my own preferred encode settings. Though doing so is still technically illegal at least for dvd where you are bypassing a protection software on the disk to do so.

I don't need or want a physical copy of everything though :'(


I'll agree with this. I wish video, both anime and others, were sold more like music is now. I'd love to be able to buy some shows in just digital format and not have to deal with DRM or the shows being stuck on a cloud somewhere. Amazon will let you buy shows, but they don't let you download them (unless you have their tablet). But they let you buy and download music just fine...though they aren't Linux friendly.

If CR or Funi got into selling digital versions of shows for download without DRM nonsense, I'd be throwing money at them.


Last I remember, you can buy anime on your playstation 3.


That would be helpful if I had a playstation 3. XD

It would be nice to buy digital anime without DRM or needing a particular piece of hardware/operating system.
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15

LokiLB wrote:

I'll agree with this. I wish video, both anime and others, were sold more like music is now. I'd love to be able to buy some shows in just digital format and not have to deal with DRM or the shows being stuck on a cloud somewhere. Amazon will let you buy shows, but they don't let you download them (unless you have their tablet). But they let you buy and download music just fine...though they aren't Linux friendly.

If CR or Funi got into selling digital versions of shows for download without DRM nonsense, I'd be throwing money at them.


Well I can buy and download music on amazon from linux they just make you do one song at a time instead of full album at once. They only allow multiple concurrent downloads with there down-loader but that is a minor issue. Their entire business is built on top of linux so it is mildly annoying lol

LokiLB 
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Posted 3/18/15

Jhackler wrote:


LokiLB wrote:

I'll agree with this. I wish video, both anime and others, were sold more like music is now. I'd love to be able to buy some shows in just digital format and not have to deal with DRM or the shows being stuck on a cloud somewhere. Amazon will let you buy shows, but they don't let you download them (unless you have their tablet). But they let you buy and download music just fine...though they aren't Linux friendly.

If CR or Funi got into selling digital versions of shows for download without DRM nonsense, I'd be throwing money at them.


Well I can buy and download music on amazon from linux they just make you do one song at a time instead of full album at once. They only allow multiple concurrent downloads with there down-loader but that is a minor issue. Their entire business is built on top of linux so it is mildly annoying lol



I know. I don't really download music on my linux computer for that reason.

The more annoying thing is that I have to use wine to watch their videos (last I checked) because they need flash...and flash stopped supporting linux.
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Posted 3/18/15

LokiLB wrote:


Jhackler wrote:


LokiLB wrote:

I'll agree with this. I wish video, both anime and others, were sold more like music is now. I'd love to be able to buy some shows in just digital format and not have to deal with DRM or the shows being stuck on a cloud somewhere. Amazon will let you buy shows, but they don't let you download them (unless you have their tablet). But they let you buy and download music just fine...though they aren't Linux friendly.

If CR or Funi got into selling digital versions of shows for download without DRM nonsense, I'd be throwing money at them.


Well I can buy and download music on amazon from linux they just make you do one song at a time instead of full album at once. They only allow multiple concurrent downloads with there down-loader but that is a minor issue. Their entire business is built on top of linux so it is mildly annoying lol



I know. I don't really download music on my linux computer for that reason.

The more annoying thing is that I have to use wine to watch their videos (last I checked) because they need flash...and flash stopped supporting linux.


Flash is still supported in linux though to get the newer versions you have to use Google chrome. Not sure if there is some non standard drm on amazon video that keeps me from watching it though I haven't tried. But chrunchy roll uses flash and I use it no problem.
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Posted 3/18/15
I don't like things that make me use wine lol. So glad I can use netflix naitively now but that wasn't till after netflix lost my interest when I was previously forced to find alternatives to them
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Posted 3/18/15
I will buy when i can, if they have no intention of releasing it for my country then I will resort to streaming. Downloading is where the line is crossed. I went to the effort of ordering the rest of famb on blurry from usa when uk stopped doing bluray after vol2 was available. Even it's legal via import, why not?

It's a messy thing since piracy does cost jobs & damages the industry, but without some piracy it becomes harder to enjoy the shows. I hate how CR gets a lot of shows, love the shows they get, but my country is excluded. I respect there's rights & limitations, but it sucks when you go to the effort of getting things legal & then be unable to get it.
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
First we speak about Copyright Infringement : that concerns copy and subing of digital products then diffusion of these modified products for free. Without permission.

It's illegal. That's enough for any law abiding anime fan to hate it.

Then there is the licensee business, these companies are granted the permission to do copy and subing of digital products then diffusion of these modified products. They pay the product original owner for it (and thus to a certain amount the creators) and thus charge their own clients for the subbed products.

It's legal and any craving anime fan like them when the charged price is low, and hate them with a passion when the charged price is high.


Google fu activated : "An episode of TV anime costs about $100,000 to produce and hopes to recoup a 20% profit. Actual production begins about 6 months before air date. An episode takes roughly 20 weeks to produce from the start to finish; 10 weeks to animate. Dubbing are done only a couple weeks before air date"

This means that a 12 episodes anime series needs to make $ 1,440,000 to be profitable (and have a sequel). No matter how you look at it this implies that LOTS of anime fans need to pay a little, or that some anime fans need to pay a lot.

Yet a concern is the costs of the intermediaries between the creators and the fans, both agreeing that it shall be minimal, and that glouton intermediaries increasing the costs shall burn in the seven hells for all eternity.
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Posted 3/18/15
People are hypocrites. They talk sh*t about piracy but guess what they do when they get home?
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18 / M / Out of sight (But...
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Posted 3/18/15
First - I DON'T pirate. I actively avoid piracy.

Now then..
I have no respect for laws against piracy, but I have respect for the actual companies that sell their products. I keep a very egoist anarchistic take on life, but I respect the things that benefit me (very many things, including the companies that sell their products), so I'm relatively functional in society.

However, I also have very little money (familial reasons) to actually buy the things that I want. Hence the lack of paid membership..

Of course, I live in the U.S., so licensing isn't a problem. Money is, though. 'Tis quite a predicament, because I want to support the companies, but I have no means to do so..


So, just keep in mind that licensing isn't the only variable.
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Posted 3/18/15

Scooty-Bby wrote:

I will state that I dont feel particularly comfortable doing it, my point is simply that I want to take part in something I enjoy and sometimes pirating is the only way to do it.
The problem we have in the UK is our licensing laws. As I understand it, in the US if you own a license you have to actively use it or lose it. In the UK you can own a license and do literally nothing with it. Which makes it hard for places like crunchyroll to get the license for here. So a company will buy a license and literally not use it simply so that noone else can have it.
And why do they do that? To drive up DVD sales because its the only other legal way to watch these shows...


I feel really bad for you guys over in the UK or anywhere else because here in the US we have CR and Funi and the licensing laws here are much more lax.

However, it's pretty apparent that producers in the Japan are totally out of touch with the international market. They are stupid to not give CR licenses worldwide because that is them just losing money. The boys in Japan need to realize that outside of Japan people like to stream and not buy BDs like in Japan, so they need to start being more proactive and start using services like CR in all territories and not just a select few regions like the US.

Also if there was a way to make BDs more affordable, that'd be nice too, though I think that's up to the english distributor but I'm not not sure.

There's a lot of things wrong with the anime industry, so this problem with you having to resort to illegal sites is not really your fault. It's the out of touch boys in Japan that aren't making good use of the international market. If they gave CR licenses in all territories, they would be making TONS of money because people would actually have a legal and cheap alternative to fall back upon.


iashakezula wrote:

well this was a huge topic when Crunchyroll barelly became legal .

Since you are from the UK , you are in a situation the US viewers were many years ago, where the thirst for new anime was in demand and the industry were slow on the uptake in the world of internet,
Even up to now there are still tons of illegal streaming sites originating from countries where there is no control or policing over the net etc etc which is a form of piracy ,its just a matter of watching there or not.



I agree with everything you said. And I didn't watch anime until like 2 years ago so I don't know what it was like in the early days of CR here in the US, but it sounds like it was rough. Hopefully other territories will evolve like the US anime market because it's pretty good here for us.


hpulley wrote:

Since anime from Crunchyroll, Funimation and Daisuke is copied and uploaded right after it is shown here, the licensing restrictions do not actually do anything to limit the availability of the show to determined viewers. So they are only losing money by refusing to give Crunchyroll worldwide rights. If it can be viewed it can be copied and uploaded so it is quite silly to think you can control your content today.


Ya, they're fucking stupid to not give it to CR. They aren't combating anything with giving it to those niche licensing companies. Giving it to CR would simply mean more money for them, for a longer period of time too. The boys in Japan are absolutely nuts not taking advantage of legal outlets like CR in all territories.
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Posted 3/18/15
There is also the fact that the censorship laws are different depending on the countries.

So a PG-13 show in the US could be 16+ in some places, or 8+ in others. To make this check you need a local company, or a very well done website. Because of course all users tell the truth on their age.
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
As to why people are against piracy in general, there a several reasons I can think of. 1) It's illegal and carries fines and/or jail time if caught in many countries. 2) It's taking something you do not have legal permission to have. Anime is a luxury good not a right. It's entertainment and the content creators and license holders have the right to distribute it as they please. No one is owed free anime of any kind. 3) Piracy does have negative effects on licensing abroad and takes some revenue away from the content creators, no matter how small.

Back in my early days of watching subbed anime I used to download everything. At that time there was not much of a streaming market established and I was also a penniless teenager. That said, as I got older and wiser to how anime operates and the costs involved I realized the negative effects of my actions on the industry and switched to legal streaming.

I've always bought shows I adore on DVD and blu-ray, but legal streaming on CR and FUNi improving in recent years has allowed me to watch simulcasts as quickly as mere hours after airing in Japan; which gave me really no excuse for downloading fansubs anymore. I was even content with waiting a week to watch them free and legally on CR at first knowing at least some revenue was going back to the content creators no matter how minute. Now with all the device support and with nearly 90% of shows being picked up by one of the two, legal streaming is definitely the way to go to support the content creators and show there is demand for anime legally abroad. It's convenient and $7 or less a month is a great bargain at that.

Fansubs still serve a purpose for OVAs/specials that never get legally picked up or the occasional orphaned show, but for the main shows it is becoming harder and harder to justify in regions where legal streaming access is readily available. I can understand concerns with bandwidth issues and shows not being available in your region for sure, but for shows that are available, there really is no excuse. If you claim to love anime, you should legally support the content in your region and give back in every way possible.

A big reason why more anime does not get licensed abroad is because fansubs are very prevalent still. Unless a company looking to license anime outside of Japan sees profit in doing so, then they won't. If they see the attitude of fans in the region is all about fansubs and won't support legal streaming, they won't license shows to stream there and it becomes a vicious cycle. Part of the blame lies with suits in Japan being too strict and rigid with rights abroad, don't get me wrong, but when they do give shows out in your region to others legally, you should show them why they should continue by supporting it. If $7 a month or $60 annually is too much to pay for anime, then perhaps you should consider a cheaper hobby. Just being real here. If everyone paid for CR out of the reported millions in traffic this site gets, imagine the revenue stream.
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
Like yourself I live in the UK, so when it comes to anime and even movies (looking at you netflix) I don't have a huge range to pick from.
As far as I see it, if you aren't making it available in my country to begin with, then you are not losing anything due to piracy.
I absolutly love supporting great anime, I adore Durararararararararararara and bought the DVD's and manga, and I don't even read manga.

Without writing a page of text, this is how I see it:

-If you make it available to me (in my country) then I will watch it legally.

-If your anime sucks, then you probably don't deserve to see peoples cash anyway (harsh but true).

-The methods you'll use to prevent piracy, will most likely only hurt those that want to legitimately consume your content.

-Also the disk price on Anime is too damn high for what we're given. If it wasn't for the existence of Crunchyroll, you'd probably never see a single cent from me.
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
"Why are people against piracy?"

People are against piracy, because pirates are thieves and "people" don't like to be stolen from.

People who produce either goods or services generally do so to be compensated (regardless of whether or not they also do it for fun). Not compensating them for it (and taking it anyway) is stealing.

People in the Anime/Manga industry are not making the money they could be because of pirates, so they care. People outside the industry, either saving money or obtaining that which would otherwise not be obtained (through piracy), don't care; or at least not as much.

People who are against piracy either have a moral compass that works and/or they have an invested interest in said industry. But they are actually against it because they could be making more money and/or feel it is wrong.

Also this:


HiddenHope wrote:

As far as I see it, if you aren't making it available in my country to begin with, then you are not losing anything due to piracy.


If you're not taking something from someone but creating it for another, you're not stealing. You're actually producing. If no one loses and somebody wins, I really wouldn't even call it piracy.
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Posted 3/18/15 , edited 3/18/15
It warrants mention that anime has traditionally been a club good, one which may be enjoyed by any number of people without taking away from any individual's enjoyment thereof while simultaneously being something to which access may be restricted. As reproduction and distribution of anime have become progressively less burdensome processes, however, that excludability has been waning and anime has been taking on more character as a public good like rain, national security, or fireworks displays. As a consequence this brings up something called the "free rider dilemma", which essentially boils down to this: people aren't inclined to pay for something they can get for free, and failing to take this into account when constructing the model for funding a public good will likely result in its diminished or discontinued provision. That is why people are down on piracy: pirates are the free-riders.

Now, it's all well and good to say that pirates are free-riders, rabble rabble, rabble. But what is to be done about them, how can we solve the free-rider dilemma? Well, there are many options available, but they all essentially come together as either carrot or stick approaches. Crunchyroll, FUNimation, Viz Media, Hulu, and so on have opted to provide freely accessible, ad-supported streaming services for content. That's a carrot approach intended to lure back those who are still inclined to be free-riders, but which also wouldn't begrudge watching (or ignoring, the money is made either way) a few ads for the sake of getting what they want. Considering how widespread this practice has become, and further how long it has endured, I would imagine that the idea has experienced some measure of success. Another carrot approach is to expand international access to content, and while I'm certain this is a very difficult process and that distributors would generally love to go wherever they believe a market exists the cold reality that illegal distributors are not so burdened cannot be ignored. You'll have to either accept the loss of some markets to pirates, or you'll have to take bigger risks.

Meanwhile, a stick approach would be prosecuting those who illegally obtain/produce/distribute copies. This has been the standard practice for as long as copyright law has existed, though I question its relative efficacy in the face of technologies which have made reproduction/distribution so easy and inexpensive. Another interesting point concerning stick approaches is that they are not always themselves legal. In order to combat piracy firms have as much as included malware in their products which either installs itself secretly or disregards refusal to consent to its installation. This should not be tolerated. Yet a third stick method is to force internet customers into arbitration agreements which are intrinsically stacked against them in order to obtain service at all. This too should not be tolerated. I'm certainly not saying that stick approaches are intrinsically useless, illegal, or unethical, but rather that I question the usefulness of past approaches and consider that emphasis should probably be on carrot-style approaches.
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