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Post Reply So I got into thinking....
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27 / M / Louisville, KY
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Posted 3/19/15

pandrasb wrote:

A computer doesn't think, it just follows its program. It's as dumb as a rock. It has no will of it's own.


True, but how can we prove that we are not following a program? In fact, our cells have a set function to divide. These cells have a predetermined set of instructions they will continue to follow until the body host fails to function (brain). A CPU can mimic this functionality which basically makes us what we are. We are made up of trillions of cells that all have set functions to carry out.

It is likely to assume that given another 50~ years (or less) we could develop computer AI that will be able to "think" for itself. For example, you may think that you are making a decision all on your own to seek out a mate or to eat some particular food, but it's really just your body creating a strong urge to make those things happen. Sure, you can resist those urges, but so could a computer given there is something more important.

The reason programmers find it hard to develop AI is it's hard to imagine what "thinking for one's self" actually means. When everything breaks down we as humans are merely driven by some means to accomplish some predetermined task. This brings me back to cells having a predetermined task to divide. Consciousness is still not completely understood. We as humans can't comprehend how to develop something such as an AI that has a consciousness since we ourselves cannot prove we are conscious.
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Posted 3/19/15
It is completely possible that there is no God, if I read what you posted right. Though I personally am not that religious (I believe more the "First Mover" thing...), it could still be possible that there is a God, and when we die, our soul goes somewhere. Now if I read the original post correctly, then there was something about the soul not existing, in a sense? So if we reach a point where we can "upload" our "brain" to some advanced computer, then, if the soul was real, we would be no more than thoughts, but if the brain was the center of human activity, then we would still function the same, with the same thought patterns and all, right?

I apologize, by the way, for this. I kind of just gave some jumbled reply with my own questions included XD
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Posted 3/19/15
I'm not sure if you're just talking about memories or consciousness or what. A lot of things in the universe break up and scatters into little pieces yet still has enough energy to reform once more. If "we" die and scatter, it may be possible that it reforms as something else and we find ourselves somewhere again.
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Posted 3/19/15

RedExodus wrote:

I'm not sure if you're just talking about memories or consciousness or what. A lot of things in the universe break up and scatters into little pieces yet still has enough energy to reform once more. If "we" die and scatter, it may be possible that it reforms as something else and we find ourselves somewhere again.


But what I'm referring to are our memories. Sure, our remains can scatter and be formed as a material for something else, such as for the formation of a new planet. But what I'm really saying is, if we die, our memories are gone. Hence, "artifical memory" in my little paragraph
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Posted 3/19/15

Lord_Jordan wrote:

It is completely possible that there is no God, if I read what you posted right. Though I personally am not that religious (I believe more the "First Mover" thing...), it could still be possible that there is a God, and when we die, our soul goes somewhere. Now if I read the original post correctly, then there was something about the soul not existing, in a sense? So if we reach a point where we can "upload" our "brain" to some advanced computer, then, if the soul was real, we would be no more than thoughts, but if the brain was the center of human activity, then we would still function the same, with the same thought patterns and all, right?

I apologize, by the way, for this. I kind of just gave some jumbled reply with my own questions included XD


If we were able to theoretically "upload" ourselves onto a computer, with all the "memory files" on it, would that not mean that we are no longer the control center of the brain, but a resident of a computer? Idk man, answering questions with more questions I suppose.
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Posted 3/19/15
When you die.. you either die and cease to exist.. meaning you become nothing.

or we go to some realm after death where we eat cookies and drink milk and play in fields of sunshine.


I say there is a 99.99% chance we are going to cease to exist, but there is still that 0.01% chance we may go to that after death realm.
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Posted 3/19/15

MysticGon wrote:

Once you are brain-dead you cease to exist accordingly to secular society.

Once you are brain dead your soul goes somewhere else according to most religions.

Now if religion is a product of our higher intelligence or if it is the other way around... that is a contentious matter as I'm sure you are aware but you are free to think whatever you like.


This is why I've become more interested in the cultivation aspect. Religion assumes a soul can be saved or lost, but that shouldn't be on the brain.

Sure, our brains have different capacities, but maybe a brain-dead comatose person can be considered closest to holy, as this person lives without desire, without fear, will never deny acting within their capacity for somebody else, and harbors no ill-will towards any creature. But if our souls and our brains are disconnected, what of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome? Was a little part of the soul irreparably stolen by the sins of the mother, or can the soul still be honestly cultivated without full function of the brain?

So I wonder what your opinion on the cultivation of the soul is. Up front, fault forward, I don't believe in the soul. Do you think a soul can grow or wither, or is your belief along the lines that the soul is truly static, or is it something even less definable?
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Posted 3/19/15 , edited 3/20/15
Hmmmmmmm.........ever read Gilgamesh?

Bottom line, nobody knows and that is kind of the point of life. There's a lot of historical evidence that most religions are merely social constructs that mirror their societies. However, a lot of great minds over the past 10,000 years have wrestled with the enigma of self-awareness as a "core construct" of life. Certainly humankind's ability to think abstractly seems to be unique in the animal world. Art is a reflection of this self aware/transcendent/self awareness capability. Some people are atheists, but then that leaves the question of matter and existence. Everything has a beginning and an end and if there is nothing "greater or infinite", where did being and time and existence itself come from?
Bottom line, we don't know and either "belief" system is a leap of faith.

I liked how Parasite touched on this, "why are we here? What are we? thing.
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Posted 3/19/15

JeffofMaine wrote:

Hmmmmmmm.........ever read Gilgamesh?

Bottom line, nobody knows and that is kind of the point of life. There's a lot of historical evidence that most religions are merely social constructs that mirror their societies. However, a lot of great minds over the past 10,000 years have wrestled with the enigma of self-awareness as a "core construct" of life. Certainly humankind's ability to think abstractly seems to be unique in the animal world. Art is a reflection of this self aware/transcendent/self awareness capability. Some people are atheists, but then that leaves the question of matter and existence. Everything has a beginning and an end and if there is nothing "greater or infinite", where did being and time and existence itself come from?
Bottom line, we don't know and either "belief" system is a leap of faith.

I liked how Parasite touched on this, "why are we here? What are we? thing.

^This guy get's it. You can trust him he's got a bunny rabbit AVI and is 100 years young.

I really don't know what else I can add as this guy sums it up well. There is no real reason for me to basically repeat what he said in my own post. However like he did say with how we don't know....I just want to add there is no real way to test what happens. Yeah we can witness the death of a person and say well they just died and to us that's it, nothing more. We can't see or test anything in regards to a soul or reincarnation or etc. We can't scientifically test the spiritual/supernatural as it's outside our realm of understanding. However we decide to go with a more natural explanation than supernatural one as it's easier to explain a natural one. Isn't it easier to just say someone died and that's it, instead of saying there soul went into the afterlife or they reincarnated? The supernatural is unknowable as we can't even begin to comprehend it if we did it would no longer be supernatural. Since the Supernatural is unknowable it just comes down to Faith. We just say that nothing happens after death as that is the simplest answer to go with. The simplest answer is usually the correct one.

Sorry if I come off as confusing had a long day at work and I'm about to fall asleep while typing this. lol. Knowing me I'll probably edit this post tomorrow to explain better or realize I made no sense.
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21 / M / Tiphares
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Posted 3/19/15
You think too much.
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Posted 3/19/15

morechunch wrote:



This is why I've become more interested in the cultivation aspect. Religion assumes a soul can be saved or lost, but that shouldn't be on the brain.

Sure, our brains have different capacities, but maybe a brain-dead comatose person can be considered closest to holy, as this person lives without desire, without fear, will never deny acting within their capacity for somebody else, and harbors no ill-will towards any creature. But if our souls and our brains are disconnected, what of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome? Was a little part of the soul irreparably stolen by the sins of the mother, or can the soul still be honestly cultivated without full function of the brain?

So I wonder what your opinion on the cultivation of the soul is. Up front, fault forward, I don't believe in the soul. Do you think a soul can grow or wither, or is your belief along the lines that the soul is truly static, or is it something even less definable?


Sorry but I'll abstain. My opinion is irrelevant. But like someone said before, you won't know for sure until you die.
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Posted 3/19/15

Khaltazar wrote:


pandrasb wrote:

A computer doesn't think, it just follows its program. It's as dumb as a rock. It has no will of it's own.


True, but how can we prove that we are not following a program? In fact, our cells have a set function to divide. These cells have a predetermined set of instructions they will continue to follow until the body host fails to function (brain). A CPU can mimic this functionality which basically makes us what we are. We are made up of trillions of cells that all have set functions to carry out.

It is likely to assume that given another 50~ years (or less) we could develop computer AI that will be able to "think" for itself. For example, you may think that you are making a decision all on your own to seek out a mate or to eat some particular food, but it's really just your body creating a strong urge to make those things happen. Sure, you can resist those urges, but so could a computer given there is something more important.

The reason programmers find it hard to develop AI is it's hard to imagine what "thinking for one's self" actually means. When everything breaks down we as humans are merely driven by some means to accomplish some predetermined task. This brings me back to cells having a predetermined task to divide. Consciousness is still not completely understood. We as humans can't comprehend how to develop something such as an AI that has a consciousness since we ourselves cannot prove we are conscious.


Consciousness is a mystery.

Because robots don't kill themselves when given a repetitive and mundane task without meaning to do for 80 hours/week.
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Posted 3/19/15 , edited 3/19/15

JeffofMaine wrote:

Hmmmmmmm.........ever read Gilgamesh?

Bottom line, nobody knows and that is kind of the point of life. There's a lot of historical evidence that most religions are merely social constructs that mirror their societies. However, a lot of great minds over the past 10,000 years have wrestled with the enigma of self-awareness as a "core construct" of life. Certainly humankind's ability to think abstractly seems to be unique in the animal world. Art is a reflection of this self aware/transcendent/self awareness capability. Some people are atheists, but then that leaves the question of matter and existence. Everything has a beginning and an end and if there is nothing "greater or infinite", where did being and time and existence itself come from?
Bottom line, we don't know and either "belief" system is a leap of faith.

I liked how Parasite touched on this, "why are we here? What are we? thing.


Parasyte is really good, I'm a fan, I don't love it, but it's good. But the environmentalist movement influences the color of it, the story is not deepened by it.

It's still about the demi-god's supreme struggle to come to terms with his power and use his supremacy, anime 101.

The Epic of Gilgamesh was more about the full-breed ultimate supremacy who just plain had it covered the whole time. Neither is necessarily intended that way, I think, but each is certainly outlined and colored by the culture. But the question of the environmentalism movement and the reality of racial supremacy was big at the time the manga was published. In Japan especially, who also has maintained a well founded culture of treating animals and animal behavior supernaturally.

A sword-culture that appreciates poetry, nature, and self-sacrifice has never existed so perfectly as in the Japanese culture. Which is not to call Japan as a history or as a culture perfect, but I really like what I see. I think the island culture is worth considering when looking at their literary heroes and accounting for certain influences. For one, Japan has some of the most stringent laws on firearms in the world.

If bombs and firearms are used in an anime, I assume that generally implies their unfair effectiveness, like how they raise questions in Parasyte of who is hunted and harvested more brutally. They can be intended to be a warning about how power can be misused and how it can lash back against unfair power in more violent ways, but I don't think Parasyte cared as much about the environment as the "I'm gonna put 'bad guys' in quotes" views. The manga drags Japan's 1980s environmentalism into question in order to tell a story about confidence, self-esteem, and self-assurance in personal morality.

Does that make it holy? No. Does that make it in reference to late 1980's Japanese society? I would say it kind of has to, but you're free to think whatever you want.

It's interesting to me that they would bother to modernize the outfits and give the characters cell phones, instead of changing any part of the storyline (so far, we'll see how it ends). The story doesn't need to change to be compelling. Shakespeare proved that already, but would anybody watch Romeo and Juliet as reality TV?

"Belief" is the antithesis of "disbelief." Your argument is bunk, there is such a thing as belief in disbelief, but if you think disbelief is a belief you don't know how to begin believing in disbelief's existence.

The same goes for me. I think that's what Parasyte is after.
Posted 3/20/15
I believe everything lives on in a sense.
You may not be able to DO anything
but nothing ever just goes away .
We're reusing atoms from space, from prehistoric creatures.
It may have been born within them
but it never dies.
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Posted 3/20/15
Dead men don't bite.
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