First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
Post Reply Why censor nudity and yet graphic dismemberment is ok?
9200 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M
Offline
Posted 3/25/15
All of this is well and good, but I often wonder if all of this outrage over nudity being censored does speak more of those doing the ranting and raving about not seeing a nipple here or there than it does of the censorship itself.

In short, why does it matter? you can find your nipples elsewhere. Why are you so hellbent on seeing it in anime?

EDIT: also, anime wasn't so censored before, but it was aimed at adults, (which it's not really anymore), and it didn't have NEARLY as many scenes that would written in for the sake of showing nudity or violence (and hence, even if they were censored, you wouldn't have as many scenes requiring censorship) Thirdly, the stuff you're seeing is almost exactly the same as what's shown in Japan. The difference is that it's subtitled. Quit bitching about things going on in the US or Europe. Japan censors shit on its own accord. You guys forget the "nice boat" incident that made them scale back drastically on how much violence they could show, or the crappy anti-porn laws and the recent crackdown on child pornography.

And if you think that's bad? I've heard tell of some of the anti-porn laws in other countries. Jesus Christ on a pogostick.
18098 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 3/26/15
It's not that I need to see nudity in my anime, but when it is present the show gets ruined by censorship that takes up half a screen. And I agree that there are plenty of shows that do it on purpose to entice people to buy the BD/DVD, as I said in a previous post. I'm not saying that they should be allowed to show whatever they want (there's a reason porn is not on broadcast primetime TV), but at the same time a lot of the things censored are rather tame (A giant black bar taking up half the screen for a panty shot? Oh the humanity!). In my opinion, censorship doesn't clean up anything, but rather encourages shows to push the envelope or deliberately spam nudity to make the show almost unwatchable unless you buy the home release.

And I understand that it's Japanese censorship, but there are premium Japanese channels that air the uncensored versions in late night time blocks. Also, the censorship is edited in by the anime studio, which explains why some shows have funny and creative methods that leave it watchable while others lazily black out the screen to get video sales. But again, it's pay to see a show that isn't black or white blockages of the screen for most of the time. Production companies are exploiting censorship laws as a marketing tool.

And as I said in a previous post as well, I'm not calling for nudity/violence for the sake of it all. That's just laziness to cover up poor storytelling and dull characters. But at the same time, if it shows up and actually benefits the progression of the story, I don't want to sit through an unwatchable scene massacred by overly applied censorship that pulls me out of the story.

And regardless of country, I believe censorship is wrong. It's not about decency, it's about imposing a set value of morals on others without their desire or consent.
9200 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M
Offline
Posted 3/26/15

coopsta05 wrote:

It's not that I need to see nudity in my anime, but when it is present the show gets ruined by censorship that takes up half a screen. And I agree that there are plenty of shows that do it on purpose to entice people to buy the BD/DVD, as I said in a previous post. I'm not saying that they should be allowed to show whatever they want (there's a reason porn is not on broadcast primetime TV), but at the same time a lot of the things censored are rather tame (A giant black bar taking up half the screen for a panty shot? Oh the humanity!). In my opinion, censorship doesn't clean up anything, but rather encourages shows to push the envelope or deliberately spam nudity to make the show almost unwatchable unless you buy the home release.

And I understand that it's Japanese censorship, but there are premium Japanese channels that air the uncensored versions in late night time blocks. Also, the censorship is edited in by the anime studio, which explains why some shows have funny and creative methods that leave it watchable while others lazily black out the screen to get video sales. But again, it's pay to see a show that isn't black or white blockages of the screen for most of the time. Production companies are exploiting censorship laws as a marketing tool.

And as I said in a previous post as well, I'm not calling for nudity/violence for the sake of it all. That's just laziness to cover up poor storytelling and dull characters. But at the same time, if it shows up and actually benefits the progression of the story, I don't want to sit through an unwatchable scene massacred by overly applied censorship that pulls me out of the story.

And regardless of country, I believe censorship is wrong. It's not about decency, it's about imposing a set value of morals on others without their desire or consent.


My favorite and most original way of censoring was in Inukami. The blue elephants that covered male genitalia. It actually kinda worked into the story as well as it was the reference they used about said genitalia as well. It also had a bit of liveliness and movement if I recall... (you have to watch Inukami to understand what I mean).

I completely understand the above reasons for not caring for censorship, and agree with it. It's just the arguments that I've seen a lot in their topics rarely have anything to do with japan, the time slots, or the animation studio's decisions. They also tend towards "I want my nudity and I want it now!!!!" argument, which has little substance to back it up.

I enjoy the occasional ecchi show myself, (like the aforementioned Inukami or B Gata H Kei, both of which were creative and focused more on humor than showing off flesh).

I guess I just wish people thought about it more or expressed more rational reasons for their disagreement on censorship.
mnmike 
20135 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Online
Posted 3/26/15
So, we need to be careful here, cause there are two distinct types of censoring being mentioned and confused with each other.

1) Censoring by a third party to meet with cultural moral attitudes, in a way unintended by the artist(s)/director.

2) Self-censoring, in order to make a show appropriate to be shown (without major incident) to the target audience and to not distract the viewer from the more important elements of the show.

We mostly agree that #1 is bad.

#2, however, is often a good thing. If you're target audience is 15 year olds, titillating them with a hot springs episode is fine, but if you go too far with the nudity, you'll face parental backlash even in the absence of governmental controls. So, they use some creative placement of rocks, steam, and light (not to mention towels doing some things that violate all known laws of physics) to make sure that not too much is ever seen. And as a viewer, I'm perfectly okay with this. I don't really want to see pre-teen pubis, male or female, in my anime. If I want to watch porn, I'll watch porn--but most of the time, I don't want to, so I'd just assume that everything didn't turn into it.

18098 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 3/26/15 , edited 3/26/15

serifsansserif wrote:


coopsta05 wrote:

It's not that I need to see nudity in my anime, but when it is present the show gets ruined by censorship that takes up half a screen. And I agree that there are plenty of shows that do it on purpose to entice people to buy the BD/DVD, as I said in a previous post. I'm not saying that they should be allowed to show whatever they want (there's a reason porn is not on broadcast primetime TV), but at the same time a lot of the things censored are rather tame (A giant black bar taking up half the screen for a panty shot? Oh the humanity!). In my opinion, censorship doesn't clean up anything, but rather encourages shows to push the envelope or deliberately spam nudity to make the show almost unwatchable unless you buy the home release.

And I understand that it's Japanese censorship, but there are premium Japanese channels that air the uncensored versions in late night time blocks. Also, the censorship is edited in by the anime studio, which explains why some shows have funny and creative methods that leave it watchable while others lazily black out the screen to get video sales. But again, it's pay to see a show that isn't black or white blockages of the screen for most of the time. Production companies are exploiting censorship laws as a marketing tool.

And as I said in a previous post as well, I'm not calling for nudity/violence for the sake of it all. That's just laziness to cover up poor storytelling and dull characters. But at the same time, if it shows up and actually benefits the progression of the story, I don't want to sit through an unwatchable scene massacred by overly applied censorship that pulls me out of the story.

And regardless of country, I believe censorship is wrong. It's not about decency, it's about imposing a set value of morals on others without their desire or consent.


My favorite and most original way of censoring was in Inukami. The blue elephants that covered male genitalia. It actually kinda worked into the story as well as it was the reference they used about said genitalia as well. It also had a bit of liveliness and movement if I recall... (you have to watch Inukami to understand what I mean).

I completely understand the above reasons for not caring for censorship, and agree with it. It's just the arguments that I've seen a lot in their topics rarely have anything to do with japan, the time slots, or the animation studio's decisions. They also tend towards "I want my nudity and I want it now!!!!" argument, which has little substance to back it up.

I enjoy the occasional ecchi show myself, (like the aforementioned Inukami or B Gata H Kei, both of which were creative and focused more on humor than showing off flesh).

I guess I just wish people thought about it more or expressed more rational reasons for their disagreement on censorship.




Exactly my point, thank you for understanding that. I agree that too many arguments against censorship focus on "I want to see boobies!" I've never seen Inukami (though I may check it out now), but I have see B Gata H Kei which used censorship to hilarious effect in the form of Eros Deities. It wasn't intrusive and actually added to the humor, since it was intentional versus required. And we later see Yamada exposed at the hotel, but I feel it was tastefully done to show the awkwardness of the situation.

On the other hand you have Testament of Sister New Devil, which while the plot isn't terrible, moves at such a weird and unsatisfying pace with little character development. But with the over the top ecchi that's starting to cross the line into hentai, you can tell that the plot is just there to open up opportunities for ecchi scenes to drive DVD sales.

As a side note, when people complain about High School girls exposing themselves they are also looking at it through their cultural lenses. If I recall correctly, the age of consent is 13 in Japan but many areas forbid sexual activities with anyone under 18 unless it is a genuine romantic relationship. This means high school girls can be a legal and somewhat socially acceptable relationship, thus explaining why some shows will portray them as sexual entities versus innocent. Not saying it's right or wrong, it just is. Not everyone sees age of consent being 18 like the US.

Thanks for your reply serifsansserif, you're one of the few people who get why censorship is meaningless for reasons other than T&A. Hope you have a good day.
18098 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 3/26/15

mnmike wrote:

So, we need to be careful here, cause there are two distinct types of censoring being mentioned and confused with each other.

1) Censoring by a third party to meet with cultural moral attitudes, in a way unintended by the artist(s)/director.

2) Self-censoring, in order to make a show appropriate to be shown (without major incident) to the target audience and to not distract the viewer from the more important elements of the show.

We mostly agree that #1 is bad.

#2, however, is often a good thing. If you're target audience is 15 year olds, titillating them with a hot springs episode is fine, but if you go too far with the nudity, you'll face parental backlash even in the absence of governmental controls. So, they use some creative placement of rocks, steam, and light (not to mention towels doing some things that violate all known laws of physics) to make sure that not too much is ever seen. And as a viewer, I'm perfectly okay with this. I don't really want to see pre-teen pubis, male or female, in my anime. If I want to watch porn, I'll watch porn--but most of the time, I don't want to, so I'd just assume that everything didn't turn into it.



Yes we're primarilyly addressing #1. I too do not have a problem with #2 as it is usually done in an unobtrusive way (towels, convenient point of view, etc.) or as a way to add comedic value, as references by serifsansserif in the Inukami reference, as long as it was intended and not a ploy to boost sales by releasing an uncensored version. An artist choosing to not display over the top fan service is not an issue, since their art and story will not suffer from it's absence. But third party censorship in the form of black screens or overly intrusive overlays, or the same done in house to encourage consumers to buy uncensored DVDs, is lazy and useless while ruining the viewing experience of many shows.

Shows like So i Can't Play H, which might be a good story but I'll never know, since I gave up watching as a majority of the screen is blacked out including during the fight scene in the first episode. The censorship was so over the top that it was unwatchable and unpleasant, and after not even 10 minutes I gave up on the show. And considering the main character's power, the exposure is actually essential to the plot (it is an ecchi comedy after all). The worst part is that the creators were probably banking on this in order to increase DVD sales. Look at the Crunchyroll reviews, it was rated low not because the content was censored or the story sucked, but because the censorship was so lazy and obtrusive that it ruined any chance of an enjoyable viewing. I know it's not Crunchyroll's fault, but I wouldn't show a series that badly massacred out of principle.
5282 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M
Offline
Posted 3/27/15
^^ Only in a technical sense. The age of consent in individual prefectures are higher, so it harder matters.
18029 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 3/28/15
I thought there might be someone who brings up kids. It's rated MA content so they have no business whatsoever watching it and if they are it's not crunchyroll or anyone else's fault but the legal guardians who should be blocking it. It's a subscription service meaning they need access to a credit card. If they have that that's an entirely different problem. When I worked customer service at a video game store I was shocked to learn how ignorant some parents were about the games there kids wanted to play. Back during the war on games I fought for my right to play the games I wanted buy educating the parents on what little Timmy wanted to play. The rating system is there for a reason. If it's ignored for any reason including ignorance the companies have already done everything there legally bound to. It really pisses me off to hear some parent shit a brick over subjective content in any media and blame everyone under the sun for it instead of taking responsibility.
4583 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / Decemberunderground
Offline
Posted 3/28/15

twintiger12 wrote:


AzazelOfNexium wrote:

I wonder if people realize that even porn is censored in japan (except for nipples)


LOL I was think of posting this when saw the OP.



I remember a post a long time ago about Bible Black being sold in America without subs and only with the English audio because apparently Japanese fans would buy the American DVDs too avoid censorship. After seeing a youtube video comparing the voices I would have felt really bad for english speaking fans of the show if torrents didn't exist.
18029 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 3/28/15
Ok in response to some of the posts my original post was in fact for 3rd party editing. I said I wanted to watch the anime as was intended by creator. Now I do agree that some of the editing like B Gate H Kei was amusing and done well to fit into the scenario. But when it makes a show completely unwatchable because half the screen is covered it ruins the show by taking you out of the story.
24273 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 3/28/15

biscuitnote wrote:

Seeing naked bodies offends peoples christian values. Violence on the other hand is integral part of the Christian faith. The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies!Nahum 1:2-8 NLT I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)


It's Japan... Baka.

Anyway. There are new laws regulating the depiction of certain things. Manga tries to buck the trend and but it's harder for anime to do the same. Even violence is getting harder to show properly in anime. So things that come out these days will be softer than the stuff we use to get in the 80s and 90s.

4649 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
38 / F / Michigan
Offline
Posted 3/28/15 , edited 3/28/15
biscuitnote wrote:

Seeing naked bodies offends peoples christian values. Violence on the other hand is integral part of the Christian faith. The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies!Nahum 1:2-8 NLT I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)






But you forgot Psalm 11:5, God HATES violence. And 1Timothy 1:11, He's a HAPPY God.
If someone attack you, you will get mad and fight back. But on a normal day...
18098 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 4/1/15

Jean104 wrote:

^^ Only in a technical sense. The age of consent in individual prefectures are higher, so it harder matters.


I understand it's only technical. As I stated for most prefectures they don't allow sexual activities with anyone under 18. The genuine romantic relationship exception usually applies to high school sweethearts who continue dating after one of them graduates, this is not supposed to encourage older men to pursue school girls. The point of that fact was only to point out that anime is legally able to show school girl skin due to home nation laws, and that people need to realize that rules in their countries don't have an effect on the original content.
5613 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 4/1/15
It's actually pretty simple...

Why are parents more protective of kids from sexual stuff?
Well, which is more likely to happen?

Your kid gets sexually involved at a young age and does something bad as a result of that?
Your kid slices someone up and guts them like a fish?

Graphic violence shown in video games, anime, manga, and movies are entirely fictional, and in most cases impossible to replicate. Most parents don't imagine their kids would go on a shooting spree. And kids know the difference between fiction and reality.
Sexuality is something that kids can mimic and replicate. Therefore it's more taboo as it can actually happen
869 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / F / London
Offline
Posted 4/1/15

Le_Dom wrote:


biscuitnote wrote:

Seeing naked bodies offends peoples christian values. Violence on the other hand is integral part of the Christian faith. The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies!Nahum 1:2-8 NLT I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)


Except that less than 1% of the japanese population is christian...


yes but the Japanese were westernized long ago
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.