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Post Reply Why do there exist gay conservatives?
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Posted 4/8/15


extreme leftists are social justice warriors an neo nazi feminists. I'm not talking about your normal run of the mill "everyone is equal and everyone deserves rights". I'm talking about those tumblr warriors that are polluting the internet with their misinformed arguments.

Far right conservatives are just as bad as-well.
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Posted 4/8/15

pirththee wrote:


AzazelOfNexium wrote:

Better than them being obnoxious far left neo nazi's.

Why does it matter who they support?

Not all conservatives are against marriage equality, just the non secular conservatives are.

I consider myself in the middle. I agree with some conservative talking points and I agree with some liberal talking points.

Not every conservative is a bigot like some leftest youtubers would have you believe.


I'm not certain what it's like at Star Fleet command but Nazi's are usually associated with the far right even though they were called National Socialists.
I was also confused with this comment.
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Posted 4/8/15 , edited 4/9/15

silversongwriter Gays are not out to destroy society and take your religious freedom... liberals are.


(sigh) As a fiscal conservative I find your statement endemic of fanaticism.

Half the nation, liberals, are not out to destroy society OR your religious freedom, just like we are not. They have legitimate concerns, just like we do.

Did you really type that believing in it, or was that simply an act to try and get people to comment? See, considering how crazy many of my fellow republicans have been acting lately, I can't tell.


Well, to a liberal, that probably makes them a sell out.


Not really. They probably think the gay in question is a gay conservative. Nothing nefarious. Nothing tribal. Nothing ridiculously insane. They might question the logic, given the vitriol of our extreme right winged members, but they'll accept it in general. The EXTREME lefts, will probably think they're a sell out. See? The extremes on both our parties will act full of fanatical tribal zeal and get it wrong.



1. They support the free market. which would make them conservatives or liberatrians
2. They care more about religious freedom than advancing some agenda... The way I see it, these people are more disgusted by a couple suing, tarnishing, and desecrating a business over their religious beliefs, than they do about being able to get anything from any place. Perhaps, they care about the other side.

In other words, you shouldn't be homophobic, be liberalophobic. And there are plenty of liberalophobic gays.



Noooo, we shouldn't be ANY type of phobic. Get off the tribalism wagon my friend! We're all Americans here. We're all part of the same nation. Extend a hand across the aisle to the democrats, because .. good sir .... I haven't seen us even try in the past 8 years. There is something very poisonous in the heart of the GOP that's growing toxic.

Let's talk about your 2 points.

1. Now, lets be clear, neither the GOP or the Democrats support a free market. Got your attention, huh? Both sides bailed out the 1 percent with hundreds of billions of OUR tax dollars, in 2008, so no. Get off the mountain. The United States IS an oligarchy. Here is the link to the Cambridge study that proved it.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=9354310

That means, in short, the richest in the nation has been waging class warfare on those with lesser means, and they have won every single major political battle and legislation that allows them to maintain control. Both parties, our GOP and the democrats, aren't blue or red ... they're GREEN ($$$).

Points I agree on. The democrat's haven't had a believable economic strategy since Bill Clinton left office (and we almost impeached this man for lying about ejaculating on a dress). They don't support the 2nd amendment, and like many republicans, don't really pay attention to the 4th amendment. Their lack of fiscal responsibility is beyond criminal.

2. As long as no one uses religion as an excuse to discriminate against anyone in the public venue (That means that if a gay couple asks you to cater their wedding, you can't say no because your religion hates/discriminates on gays. Which is what Memories Pizzeria said they WOULD do.) then I'm sure the democrats are willing to shake our hands on the issue.

Remember, the banner of Religious Freedom cannot, must not, be used as a rallying call to sabotage the secular power that guarantees that freedom or to impose discrimination as a tenement of belief.


I am not sure if I made my points clear, but remember, we and the democrats can communicate. I think we should start by getting rid of the 8 years of indoctrinated bullcrap hatred that we're being fed 24/7 by partisan Yellow Press (political press with an opinion) corporate media outlets.



Gosh, I'm tired. I should be out having fun, not debating strangers on political issues on an ANIME/Drama Website!

Santera
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Posted 4/8/15

silversongwriter wrote:


PruBenAzul wrote:


silversongwriter wrote:

Now, why would these people support the indiana bill, as well as similar bills accross the country. After all, laws like this only pass in states with LGBT discimination laws on the book. A bill like that couldn't pass in NC. Because we don't have any protections in the first place.
Well... I have two theories.
1. They support the free market. which would make them conservatives or liberatrians
2. They care more about religious freedom than advancing some agenda... The way I see it, these people are more disgusted by a couple suing, tarnishing, and desecrating a business over their religious beliefs, than they do about being able to get anything from any place. Perhaps, they care about the other side.

In other words, you shouldn't be homophobic, be liberalophobic. And there are plenty of liberalophobic gays.


This. Yes. As someone who is a bi conservative, I agree with these two points.

However, because there are protections for others (like African Americans) to have the right to eat where they want, there needs to be protection for everyone.

My personal opinion is if a business can afford to turn away people, then good on them. Let's see how long they last.


Well... my thing is this. I know folks come from different parts of America with different ideology.

Here's what would happen in my state of NC. And what very well can happen since we don't have such discrmination laws, and therefore, have no reason to have a religious freedom act.

If someone put up a "no gays allowed" sign and refused to serve them period. That would not be good for your business. However, if someone wanted a wedding cake (gay marriage is legal here), and a religious owner denied service. It woudln't be a big deal. It wouldn't even make the news. Because we do things differently in Dixie. The religious person isn't a "bigot" or a "hater". Just someone who wants to run his business anywhere else.
I'd imagine a gay person here would respectfully take their business elsewhere and not start a ruckus. Nor would they judge them or call them hateful.


And that's how it should be. It's not a big deal if someone dislikes you. It's their loss, not yours.

Posted 4/8/15
If I can't be racist, why can people be homophobic? Just asking for consistency.
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Posted 4/8/15 , edited 4/8/15

PruBenAzul wrote:


silversongwriter wrote:


PruBenAzul wrote:


silversongwriter

And that's how it should be. It's not a big deal if someone dislikes you. It's their loss, not yours.



True, if the people who dislike you didn't act on that dislike. But being hated, HATED, simply because you were BORN black, or BORN a particular gender, or because they don't like it when 2 consenting adults of the same gender love each other, usually doesn't lead to a "live and let live' mentality. It leads to "I won't service you" or "I want to make it illegal for you two unnatural creatures to have your love validated in the eyes of the law".

Again, I despise the growing hatred inherent in the GOP. We need to clean our act up.


Santera

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Posted 4/8/15 , edited 4/9/15

Santera wrote:

True, if the people who dislike you didn't act on that dislike. But being hated, HATED, simply because you were BORN black, or BORN a particular gender, or because they don't like it when 2 consenting adults of the same gender love each other, usually doesn't lead to a "live and let live' mentality. It leads to "I won't service you" or "I want to make it illegal for you two unnatural creatures to have your love validated in the eyes of the law".

Again, I despise the growing hatred inherent in the GOP. We need to clean our act up.


Santera


The inherent hatred in the GOP is what DRIVES its economic policies.

Austerity (of which the GOP loves) is actually used to punish the por, and as the GOP have pushed that most people of color are poor it is just a dog whistle to say punish them. As such it gets idiots to vote AGAINST their own self interests.

And YES, Austerity economic measures DESTROY a country. Greece has been getting worse and worse due to Austerity measures pushed by the EU. As such, Austerity is a known economic FAILURE!

Fiscal responsibility, if actually done FOR THE ACTUAL PURPOSE, is a good thing. The problem is what needs to pass will never happen as both parties (but mainly the GOP) will never make corporations and the top 1% pay their real fair share. If they did the economy would vastly improve, as the money would filter back to those who have none and provide opportunities to get people working! (Thus removing them from the government dole)

Recently I have seen a few GOP members actually propose something that corporation are known to be against, but help the people...

Reducing or getting rid of the hated H1-B program that DOES take American jobs away! If more get on board and do this, the GOP could really have a legitimate shot at the presidency. As it stands now, unless they change, they will just be the Southern strategy party limited to trying to filibuster anything in the Senate.

The GOP, however can NOT abandon its hate, as hate is the CORE of what they have built. Any moderate GOP candidate is primaried and beaten within his own party. As such, until the GOP does a thorough house-cleaning (which will result in initial drastic losses), they will become more and more the party of hate.
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Posted 4/8/15 , edited 4/8/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

If I can't be racist, why can people be homophobic? Just asking for consistency.


You can be a racist, you just can't act on it.

I would comment on the ot, but my poor, tiny mind is pretty much incapable of understanding politic talks. Would be kind if someone could explain what in the world op is talking about.

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Posted 4/8/15 , edited 4/9/15

Santera wrote:

True, if the people who dislike you didn't act on that dislike. But being hated, HATED, simply because you were BORN black, or BORN a particular gender, or because they don't like it when 2 consenting adults of the same gender love each other, usually doesn't lead to a "live and let live' mentality. It leads to "I won't service you" or "I want to make it illegal for you two unnatural creatures to have your love validated in the eyes of the law".

Again, I despise the growing hatred inherent in the GOP. We need to clean our act up.

Santera



Very true. Hate is a very strong feeling that often leads to extreme solutions. Going back to what I had said before: It's a shame we need those laws to protect people's rights. And as the other guy said before me, they don't have a law that already protects any person so everyone gets along just fine.

But some states have the law saying that they can't discriminate against so and so. And that's the problem. There is a law. This gives businesses legal standings that allows them to discriminate against any person who is not protected by that current law. It sucks and I don't agree with this loophole that people call "religious freedom". So what should the law include? Now the wording in the law has to be changed to include EVERYONE and that can be a bit tricky to accomplish.

I like the idea of having no law at all because there's a better way for a business owner to handle an awkward situation. Say a wedding planner is uncomfortable with doing a gay wedding....the wedding planner could be honest and say that they are uncomfortable with doing a gay wedding and recommend another wedding planner who would be able to do a better job. That's good business. And if the wedding planner is rude about it using hate...that's bad business and the business could take a loss. Because "the customer is always right." It does businesses no good to be rude with hate.

However, if there's a law...the wedding planner could be forced into doing that job. Let's be honest, just how good of a job are they going to do if they dislike what they're doing? My guess is that they won't be doing a very good job, and who wants to hire someone who isn't going to do a good job? Also, what if the wedding planner still refuses despite there being a law? Well, they would get into legal trouble. All around, this is bad for a business.

I don't see this issue as a republican issue or a democrat issue...I see it as a human issue. And yes, I know that more conservatives are against gay rights than the dems....but still.
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Posted 4/8/15 , edited 4/9/15

PruBenAzul wrote:

Very true. Hate is a very strong feeling that often leads to extreme solutions. Going back to what I had said before: It's a shame we need those laws to protect people's rights. And as the other guy said before me, they don't have a law that already protects any person so everyone gets along just fine.

But some states have the law saying that they can't discriminate against so and so. And that's the problem. There is a law. This gives businesses legal standings that allows them to discriminate against any person who is not protected by that current law. It sucks and I don't agree with this loophole that people call "religious freedom". So what should the law include? Now the wording in the law has to be changed to include EVERYONE and that can be a bit tricky to accomplish.

I like the idea of having no law at all because there's a better way for a business owner to handle an awkward situation. Say a wedding planner is uncomfortable with doing a gay wedding....the wedding planner could be honest and say that they are uncomfortable with doing a gay wedding and recommend another wedding planner who would be able to do a better job. That's good business. And if the wedding planner is rude about it using hate...that's bad business and the business could take a loss. Because "the customer is always right." It does businesses no good to be rude with hate.

However, if there's a law...the wedding planner could be forced into doing that job. Let's be honest, just how good of a job are they going to do if they dislike what they're doing? My guess is that they won't be doing a very good job, and who wants to hire someone who isn't going to do a good job? Also, what if the wedding planner still refuses despite there being a law? Well, they would get into legal trouble. All around, this is bad for a business.

I don't see this issue as a republican issue or a democrat issue...I see it as a human issue. And yes, I know that more conservatives are against gay rights than the dems....but still.


Well, I'm a fiscal conservative, and I think the law is a 'lego piece'. What do I mean by that? It provides a tiny little piece to build discrimination on.

In the future, another law will be introduced, adding an amendment, and that one says that 'providers' (the Religious Freedom law defines providers as those that can't discriminate) now excludes softball teams from the definition of 'provider'. And then the next law excludes private Zoos.. Then the next law excludes soccer teams ... and the next excludes all non-profit organizations .. and the next ... and the next ....

In short, I think state imposed 'religious freedom laws' are not about religious freedom, but about creating divisions.

But, again, I don't think the real war is between the GOP and Democrats. I think the real war is between the oligarchs and everyone else.

And the mentioned 'everyone else' is losing, badly.

Santera
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Posted 4/8/15 , edited 4/9/15

Santera wrote:

Well, I'm a fiscal conservative, and I think the law is a 'lego piece'. What do I mean by that? It provides a tiny little piece to build discrimination on.

In the future, another law will be introduced, adding an amendment, and that one says that 'providers' (the Religious Freedom law defines providers as those that can't discriminate) now excludes softball teams from the definition of 'provider'. And then the next law excludes private Zoos.. Then the next law excludes soccer teams ... and the next excludes all non-profit organizations .. and the next ... and the next ....

In short, I think state imposed 'religious freedom laws' are not about religious freedom, but about creating divisions.

But, again, I don't think the real war is between the GOP and Democrats. I think the real war is between the oligarchs and everyone else.

And the mentioned 'everyone else' is losing, badly.

Santera



Yeah I agree. And I really like your 'lego piece' analogy...because there's just gonna be a crap ton of new laws that ultimately make things more complicated because they'll end up contradicting each other in some way. If it's not discrimination against one group, it'll be discrimination against another.

Yeah. I'm against the law.
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Posted 4/8/15




True, if the people who dislike you didn't act on that dislike. But being hated, HATED, simply because you were BORN black, or BORN a particular gender, or because they don't like it when 2 consenting adults of the same gender love each other, usually doesn't lead to a "live and let live' mentality. It leads to "I won't service you" or "I want to make it illegal for you two unnatural creatures to have your love validated in the eyes of the law".

Again, I despise the growing hatred inherent in the GOP. We need to clean our act up.


Santera




eightcar

The inherent hatred in the GOP is what DRIVES its economic policies.

Austerity (of which the GOP loves) is actually used to punish the por, and as the GOP have pushed that most people of color are poor it is just a dog whistle to say punish them. As such it gets idiots to vote AGAINST their own self interests.

And YES, Austerity economic measures DESTROY a country. Greece has been getting worse and worse due to Austerity measures pushed by the EU. As such, Austerity is a known economic FAILURE!

Fiscal responsibility, if actually done FOR THE ACTUAL PURPOSE, is a good thing. The problem is what needs to pass will never happen as both parties (but mainly the GOP) will never make corporations and the top 1% pay their real fair share. If they did the economy would vastly improve, as the money would filter back to those who have none and provide opportunities to get people working! (Thus removing them from the government dole)



This is so wrong in so many levels.
Hatred doesn't drive the GOP policies, money does. Its financial responsibility.
Austerity doesn't punish, because to punish it requires the intent of 'penalizing for wrongdoing'. I don't think the GOP intents to penalize the poor for the 'wrongdoing' of being poor. That's a really strange, and baseless thing to say.


Austerity policies for deficit balancing focus on spending cuts (both parties have done this), tax increases (democrats do this), or a mixture of both.

The GOP doesn't want to increase taxes, it wants to cut corporate tax to stop the hemorrhage of money that leaves the U.S.A. The companies that we want paying taxes in the U.S.A. expatriate the money they make here to pay, drum roll, LOWER TAXES elsewhere. G.E, and Bank of America to name two corporations/institutions that do this. (Bank of America has actually paid -zero- income taxes in some years). So, lower the corporate tax rate, INCREASE THE BASE (that means increase the number of corporations that keep the money within the U.S.A.) and, even with a lower tax bracket, the nation has MORE MONEY at the end of the fiscal year. Why? Because instead of taxing 500 companies (made up number) we tax 900 companies (made up number). That's the whole idea. Which IS PROVEN TO WORK. Bush younger's policies collected MORE TAXES than Bill Clinton policies and will collect more than Obama policies. That's a FACT .. and err ... a prediction, since President Obama is still in office. :)

Let's touch the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, Obamacare for those that want to disrespect the President.

Not a bad idea, IF insurance companies are allowed to sell insurances across state borders. Thus, increasing competition and lowering insurance premiums. That way, private citizens have much better insurance options, have to spend less in medical bills, blah blah. BUT, since the democrats don't want a 'free market' and prefer 'captive markets' within each state, (eats an apple) it becomes a costly bad idea that drains a lot of money from a lot of normal people.


Here is the economic model that I think the U.S.A. should follow. Its a 2-3 year old interview between Bill Clinton and Bill O'Reilly. Both of them actually made sense on the economic issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRoNd-0LgzU



The GOP, however can NOT abandon its hate, as hate is the CORE of what they have built. Any moderate GOP candidate is primaried and beaten within his own party. As such, until the GOP does a thorough house-cleaning (which will result in initial drastic losses), they will become more and more the party of hate.



If hate is the core that the GOP has built, then how could there be moderate GOP candidates? I think there IS hatred brewing in the GOP (and I speak against it, remember I'm GOP here too and I don't like) but to say that we've constructed our basic policies/our Core around hatred?

That is your own hatred talking, pardon the irony.


Santera

II am half asleep as I write this. 12 AM now. So, I'll be looking at this in the morning, and maybe making corrective changes then. Too tired to do the now. ZzzzZzzzz)

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Posted 4/8/15 , edited 4/9/15

PruBenAzul wrote:

Yeah I agree. And I really like your 'lego piece' analogy...because there's just gonna be a crap ton of new laws that ultimately make things more complicated because they'll end up contradicting each other in some way. If it's not discrimination against one group, it'll be discrimination against another.

Yeah. I'm against the law.


While laws can be built on they try to not make them contradict each other. States have scads of attorneys that make sure of this, and they are very anal about it. They have to be it is their job to understand the laws of a given state or country, so they get picky when folks start making rules that go against other rules rather than along with them.

Now what normally happens when two laws oppose each other the most recent one is the one that stands. The reason for this is it is the most current input from the governing body. This is to limit the impact of old and out of date law that should be stripped from the legal code. The attorneys also go through the code to find these out of date laws to either have them removed or modified.

Nothing more dangerous than a room full of lawyers working on legal code. Like plutonium only it talks and thinks, most of the time they get it right when rewriting or coming up with new laws for dealing with problems other times the botch it which means they get to start over from scratch to figure out a better solution to the problem. This can be costly and really harmful depending on the problem they are trying to fix.
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Posted 4/8/15 , edited 4/8/15
gay republican... gay conservative... pro-life feminist... all oxymorons that i can't even wrap my head around
Posted 4/8/15

deer wrote:

gay republican... gay conservative... pro-life feminist... all oxymorons that i can't even wrap my head around


Some people are complicated like that.
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