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Post Reply Should pastors be allowed to scam the stupid/desperate?
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Posted 4/14/15 , edited 4/14/15
THE CURE TO CANCER HAS BEEN FOUND!!!! NEW FINANCIAL REMEDY CAN STOP FORECLOSURES AND CANCEL DEBT


Okay, y'all get my point. Some religious leaders are selfish, greedy theives who scam people

The question is... Should faith healing practices and scams like this be protected by the first amendment or should it be considered a legal scam? And should people who fall for this shit be called "stupid" or "naive"?

Is it perfectly fine to sell "miracles" to cancer patients and claim to be able to cure cancer or other illness's, as well as make promises to have miraculous debt fixing powers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8bkFJBJ6V8
I mean... people have had their financial lives ruined by giving tons and tons of money to charlatans like this. You see... a typical scam invovles you giving me money and me not returning the favor. Here, the claim is that god will cancel your debt or something. People like Benny Hinn tell people who have debt to give him money, and god will cancel their debt
For the sake of the first amendment, I can't call this a legal scam... although, morally, it is an awful thing to do. A millionare scaming the poor by promising them wealth from heaven

Now... you'd think people who'd fall for this are stupid right? Well... yes. I'm sorry, if you tried to cure cancer with the Miracle Spring Water, you're stupid.... but you're also desperate. Some of these people are poor, elderly, sick, dying and blind.. have massive debt... These people are so desperate to believe in something and in such poor shape, that they're willing to risk it all hoping for a miracle. They wanna believe. They wanna believe God will help them, and they wanna be a part of something. They want to feel like they belong. Imagine a doctor tells you, "You have 4 months to live", then a pastor says, "Give me 400,000 dollars, and God would cure you".... You got nothing to lose? You're gonna die. And maybe the false promise of a miracle cure could put you at peace. So you give up all your money for that peace of mind, because you have nothing else.

Before you can call someone dumb for this.... Understand the targets are the extremely poor, debt ridden, uneducated, and elderly.
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Posted 4/14/15 , edited 4/14/15
I understand that many have enough faith to fork over the money, but I think it should be outlawed because the pastors are being unjustly enriched. They are probably aware that they are not providing a benefit for such a service. It also is immoral from a Christian perspective since it is the same as the selling of indulgences back in the primitive days, promises that one would get to heaven by paying a cleric. I'm not Christian anymore but I'm aware of the nuances of the religion since I've read through the bible more times than I can remember and have gone to church for nearly 2 decades. Leaders should not be extorting the followers and "performing miracles" commercially. Contract agreements that are unconscionable should not be enforceable and something that is pretty much a scam is also illegal and unenforceable.

Going by the holy book itself, this is bad. Conventional society considers it bad. The law considers it bad. Twice. 4-0 loss.

I can understand if the pastor was a poor traveling priest who scrapes by living off donations of food and money while going on missions, but no church leader other than this type should be given this type money for doing his duty. At least, he should not expect them. Even then, the money should be given freely as a donation (and there should be an upper limit since no moral person unfairly accepts the fortunes of the elderly) by the follower and not essentially demanded as payment for service. Of course, pastors should receive a salary but this should come from the whole of the church as an official payroll, not taken from the more devout followers.


It's unfortunate that some people leave themselves open to be taken advantage of, but that doesn't make it okay for them to be taken advantage of. Both sides are sort of in the wrong but that's the point. They're both wrong.
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Posted 4/14/15
Your forum topics are making me see the shitty side of people ( which I already know about). Are you trying to incite rage by these topics?
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Posted 4/14/15

CalifCat wrote:

Your forum topics are making me see the shitty side of people ( which I already know about). Are you trying to incite rage by these topics?


Not really... why would anyone be mad. Unless they're the kind of person who actually believes in this stuff and thinks that it's legit
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Posted 4/14/15
If someone tells me to give them $400k for a miracle cure, then he is a douchebag. If I believe him and give him the money, then I'm the idiot. People just need to use their brains and not make excuses for poor decisions.
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Posted 4/14/15

bensonc120 wrote:

If someone tells me to give them $400k for a miracle cure, then he is a douchebag. If I believe him and give him the money, then I'm the idiot. People just need to use their brains and not make excuses for poor decisions.


True... but what if the person is senile. You have someone who's 80 years old and doesn't know much about science or medicine. And is desperate. Really desperate, and in a position where their lives at risk. Debt is a serious issue and in some cases it seems like you can't get out of it.

For some people it takes many years to get out of debt. And incurable diseases are also a huge strain on poeples lives.
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Posted 4/14/15

silversongwriter wrote:


CalifCat wrote:

Your forum topics are making me see the shitty side of people ( which I already know about). Are you trying to incite rage by these topics?


Not really... why would anyone be mad. Unless they're the kind of person who actually believes in this stuff and thinks that it's legit


take a dare? Make a forum topic about peace , love and harmony! And the brilliant side of humanity that is out there and DOES exist.
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Posted 4/14/15 , edited 4/14/15
Where do you see the distinction between conversion therapies (which have been shown not to work) and faith healing (which has also been shown not to work)? They are in the same exact vein, but you only support one of them. It seems extremely odd to me. In the other thread, you said that it was fine so long as it brings them peace of mind and it is consensual - even if the therapy is painful and emotionally scarring. By that same logic, wouldn't phony faith healing be the same? They aren't stealing the money, after all; they're just lying (perhaps unknowingly) to get it.

Ultimately, I don't agree with the practice of either. It is misleading, and will only bring pain - or, in a few cases, misplaced relief. That is, such practices should be illegal.

Also, I'm curious as to what your motivation is for these threads. Do you like to stir things up? Not that I'm criticizing you, you can post whatever you want within the rules.
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Posted 4/14/15

CalifCat wrote:


silversongwriter wrote:


CalifCat wrote:

Your forum topics are making me see the shitty side of people ( which I already know about). Are you trying to incite rage by these topics?


Not really... why would anyone be mad. Unless they're the kind of person who actually believes in this stuff and thinks that it's legit


take a dare? Make a forum topic about peace , love and harmony! And the brilliant side of humanity that is out there and DOES exist.


Yea... but talking about the sick nature of humans just has way more pizzazz
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Posted 4/14/15
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Posted 4/14/15


I'm honestly shocked that that song is still up on youtube.
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Posted 4/14/15
Nobody is allowed to scam anybody end of discussion.
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Posted 4/14/15

Schmooples wrote:

Where do you see the distinction between conversion therapies (which have been shown not to work) and faith healing (which has also been shown not to work)? They are in the same exact vein, but you only support one of them. It seems extremely odd to me. In the other thread, you said that it was fine so long as it brings them peace of mind and it is consensual - even if the therapy is painful and emotionally scarring. By that same logic, wouldn't phony faith healing be the same? They aren't stealing the money, after all; they're just lying (perhaps unknowingly) to get it.

Ultimately, I don't agree with the practice of either. It is misleading, and will only bring pain - or, in a few cases, misplaced relief. That is, such practices should be illegal.

Also, I'm curious as to what your motivation is for these threads. Do you like to stir things up? Not that I'm criticizing you, you can post whatever you want within the rules.


I think both should be legal. But I never said I like the so called, "clinics". Ultimately, it's an issue of the role of government in peoples lives.

My opinion on conversion therapy is that it's not effective in of itself, but will power and possibly god could change a persons sexuality. Meaning a 3rd party would be unnecessary and any so called, "results" are the work of the person, rather than the organization. Anybody who says they wanna turn straight, I'd tell them to seek out their own way
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Posted 4/14/15
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Posted 4/14/15

Schmooples wrote:



I'm honestly shocked that that song is still up on youtube.


haha, me too! Keep it on the down low!
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