First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
Should pastors be allowed to scam the stupid/desperate?
31839 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 4/14/15

Morbidhanson wrote:

I understand that many have enough faith to fork over the money, but I think it should be outlawed because the pastors are being unjustly enriched. They are probably aware that they are not providing a benefit for such a service. It also is immoral from a Christian perspective since it is the same as the selling of indulgences back in the primitive days, promises that one would get to heaven by paying a cleric. I'm not Christian anymore but I'm aware of the nuances of the religion since I've read through the bible more times than I can remember and have gone to church for nearly 2 decades. Leaders should not be extorting the followers and "performing miracles" commercially. Contract agreements that are unconscionable should not be enforceable and something that is pretty much a scam is also illegal and unenforceable.

Going by the holy book itself, this is bad. Conventional society considers it bad. The law considers it bad. Twice. 4-0 loss.

I can understand if the pastor was a poor traveling priest who scrapes by living off donations of food and money while going on missions, but no church leader other than this type should be given this type money for doing his duty. At least, he should not expect them. Even then, the money should be given freely as a donation (and there should be an upper limit since no moral person unfairly accepts the fortunes of the elderly) by the follower and not essentially demanded as payment for service. Of course, pastors should receive a salary but this should come from the whole of the church as an official payroll, not taken from the more devout followers.


It's unfortunate that some people leave themselves open to be taken advantage of, but that doesn't make it okay for them to be taken advantaged of. Both sides are sort of in the wrong but that's the point. They're both wrong.
i'm done here!

5319 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / F / in ur heart
Offline
Posted 4/14/15
As someone who grew up in a very large well established cult (AKA the UPC churches), even I can't necessarily blame the general mass of pastors for the way their handle their "mission". They truly believe they are doing the work of the Lord, if you will, and if we were to outlaw this it would, in turn, create the means necessary for a massive rebellion on the churches part. Almost sounds like the christian apocalypse... doesn't it? (hmmm...??) When I was finally freed at 17 (kinda sounds scary haha) yes I was extremely angry at the church, the pastor, the almighty being who determines everything, and even my loved ones who were just as brainwashed as I. But after thinking about it and taking it into my own hands to experience life without religion, I realize now that everyone has their own reasons they belong to a religious organization and we can't really blame someone for dedicating their life's work to serving the god(s).

I've seen firsthand what churches desperate for money look like though- you can almost feel the slime as you walk in the door...
Posted 4/14/15


Can you blame the people who fall for it though? They have been told there is nothing the doctors can do, so where does one turn from there? Do they just say screw it and wait to die? Or do they put their faith in the faith healing? Yes, it's very desperate of them to seek out a faith healer, but my guess is that they are terrified of dying so they will try anything. The thing is faith healers know this and that makes the sick and disabled putty in their hands. The way for someone to control someone is to learn what they desire most. The sick and disabled wish to be healed so faith healers will stage healings in order to pull them into their scam. Like with cults who prey on those whose desire it is to belong, faith healers will prey on the sick and disabled. I would never call the victims of faith healings stupid because I know it must be hard to know their is no way to be healed. I feel like if I was in their position I would do something similar despite knowing that faith healing is a scam. There is nothing wrong with them putting their faith in something and giving them a little bit of hope. However the faith healers are profiting off of false hope by saying "pay me this much and God will heal you." Last time I checked God wasn't some butler who if you paid Mr. Faith Healer he will have God heal you.....all for the right price that is. They way I see it is Faith Healers are just using religion as a tool for greedy purposes.

27344 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M
Offline
Posted 4/14/15
Even if both sides have total faith in what is happening, the pastor is still unjustly enriched if his "cure" doesn't actually have any physical effect on what is surely a physical problem. He should have to cough up what he was given by the injured party in order to address the harm since the contract can't be enforced and scams are illegal.

People who do these sorts of things strike me as what the bible would call "false prophets." First of all, why are they attempting to sell miracles? They are for people who need them, not for people who can pay the highest price for them. Secondly, actual faith in God means one knows that God can't be controlled by a human hand. Finally, this stinks even to believers. You don't need a college degree to realize that they're scamsters. All you have to do is read your religious book.

There is no excuse for this sort of behavior. People who do it ought to be penalized and the money should be returned to those who have been swindled.
85432 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
44 / M / WA
Offline
Posted 4/14/15
Politicians pitch public works projects like trains and say they will cost like 150 million ...but end up costing like 15 billion; government also preys on the poor through the lottery; thieves regularly scam seniors; environmentalists fake videos ....then there's the classic "please help me smuggle money out of Nigeria, all I need is your account number!"

Jesus did all His miracles for free. The pastor of a church I went to received an offer for some sort of miracle working "Jesus Pillow" ...he passed.

"However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme..." (2 Samuel 12:14)

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves (Matthew 7:15).
40567 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / HI
Offline
Posted 4/15/15
No I think that is still wrong
9602 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M
Offline
Posted 4/15/15
Sure. Why not? Businesses do it all the time.

The gold apple watch is the key to getting you organized and being successful. I'm sure it can cure cancer too...

And if you eat enough kale, you'll live to 1000 years old!

and elderberry juice is the key to NEVAR GETTING SICK AGAIN!!!!

Smart ass answer aside, most of the time there are laws against this sort of stuff....
2299 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / F / US
Offline
Posted 4/15/15
When it comes down to it it's the preacher that's going to be facing that before God. Until then there's not much one can do outside of the more senile cases as most states count that as fraud.
Posted 4/15/15 , edited 4/15/15
Religion (not God or the Bible) is the root of all evil.

Stupid those who give money to pastors hoping for a miracle, God doesn't work that way.

Thieves and disgusting pigs, worse than demons (demons at least respect God) are those who lie to the naive idiots using/misusing the word of God.



silversongwriter wrote:

I think both should be legal. But I never said I like the so called, "clinics". Ultimately, it's an issue of the role of government in peoples lives.

My opinion on conversion therapy is that it's not effective in of itself, but will power and possibly god could change a persons sexuality. Meaning a 3rd party would be unnecessary and any so called, "results" are the work of the person, rather than the organization. Anybody who says they wanna turn straight, I'd tell them to seek out their own way




....


I don't disagree that we can change if we want to but why would you want to change something that it is not bad?(changing something like your sexual attraction requires a very very very strong will power though....why go through that pain?)

People usually want to change their wrong ways ONLY. I have never seen anyone who is kind hearted say 'I want to be cold hearted!".

I would never change something I like so that means that for you or anyone wanting to change, you think that it is wrong. I don't mind people who change naturally but seeking God or will power to change is not natural.

Why do these gay people don't like to be gay? because of religion oppressing them, ignorants bullying them and the whole society telling them that being gay is wrong.

So, anyone who comes to me and tells me that they wanna be straight, I would tell them "why? you're not wrong. You're fine the way you are".
5621 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 4/15/15

Ssomething wrote:
I don't disagree that we can change if we want to but why would you want to change something that it is not bad?(changing something like your sexual attraction requires a very very very strong will power though....why go through that pain?)

People usually want to change their wrong ways ONLY. I have never seen anyone who is kind hearted say 'I want to be cold hearted!".

I would never change something I like so that means that for you or anyone wanting to change, you think that it is wrong. I don't mind people who change naturally but seeking God or will power to change is not natural.

Why do these gay people don't like to be gay? because of religion oppressing them, ignorants bullying them and the whole society telling them that being gay is wrong.

So, anyone who comes to me and tells me that they wanna be straight, I would tell them "why? you're not wrong. You're fine the way you are".


Well... there's some people who you can be like, "You're fine the way you are", all the time. I've told people that... did it stop them from wanting to die for their sexuality... no. Some people will never be able to love themselves until they're straight.

Whether that's right or wrong doesn't matter, it's not my place to decide. Plus, if they're religious and believe in hell... I wouldn't want them paranoid and miserable all of their lives worried about whether or not they'll go to hell
5318 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 4/15/15

silversongwriter wrote:


CalifCat wrote:

Your forum topics are making me see the shitty side of people ( which I already know about). Are you trying to incite rage by these topics?


Not really... why would anyone be mad. Unless they're the kind of person who actually believes in this stuff and thinks that it's legit


You're right about this being an issue and the question asked is a good one, but the title reads as click-bait meant to enrage.
Posted 4/15/15 , edited 4/15/15

silversongwriter wrote:

Well... there's some people who you can be like, "You're fine the way you are", all the time. I've told people that... did it stop them from wanting to die for their sexuality... no. Some people will never be able to love themselves until they're straight.

Whether that's right or wrong doesn't matter, it's not my place to decide. Plus, if they're religious and believe in hell... I wouldn't want them paranoid and miserable all of their lives worried about whether or not they'll go to hell




You seriously think that the bible says that being straight will not take you to hell?




If so, you or they don't know the bible nor the god you or they so desperately want to please.


They will not love themselves until their religious friends love them, not until they become straight. Show me a true life story where an atheist wanted to become straight? they are all from religious backgrounds and that should say something....You sound very apologetic towards those churches that condemn homosexuality.

I have friends who were gay before but that's different, they are either straight or bisexual now but they didn't try to change, it just happened and that's ok. Saying "it's not my place to decide if it is wrong or right" puts you in the "I don't care" category and possibly under the "I agree with those churches" category because ignoring something that's clearly wrong causes more harm than good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SW0W7L4vRc it is a true-life movie and that woman (in the real life) rejected her son for being gay, her son tried to change and he couldn't. Believing he was going to end up in hell he killed himself. Now the mother can see the truth.

Did she say "Whether that's right or wrong doesn't matter, it's not my place to decide"?

Can you see what I'm trying to say here?



I wonder....Were you gay before? are you happy now knowing you're straight? the people who came to you are happy now? No to the first answer? then why do you seem to have some conflict with homosexuality?
5621 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 4/15/15

Ssomething wrote:

You seriously think that the bible says that being straight will not take you to hell?




If so, you or they don't know the bible nor the god you or they so desperately want to please.


What part of, "It's not my place to say", seems to escape you? I'm not the person, so I can't say


Ssomething wrote:
They will not love themselves until their religious friends love them, not until they become straight. Show me a true life story were an atheist wanted to become straight? they are all from religious backgrounds and that should say something....You sound very apologetic towards those churches that condemn homosexuality.


Um.... Not all homophobes are religious. There are athiests who don't like homosexuality. In fact, the most homophobic people I met were athiests.
And define apologetic? As in, I don't hate or condemn a whole church and it's congregation for preaching homosexuality as a sin? Well... Yea, I guess you're right.
How can I judge an entire congregation of people for thinking homosexuality is a sin, when it's in the OT and NT and repeated several times. How is judging them any less bigoted?


Ssomething wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SW0W7L4vRc it is a true-life movie and that woman (in the real life) rejected her son for being gay, her son tried to change and he couldn't. Believing he was going to end up in hell he killed himself. Now the mother can see the truth.


Your concept of the "Truth" is pretty arogant. Are you saying her interpretation of God is 100% objectively right, and most christians are wrong?
Also, didn't he kill himself because a boyfriend cheated on him, I mean, his mother in that movie never seemed that homophobic in the film and well... He was not in a hateful environment. So I don't blame religion for what this kid did.

Also, that movie sucked ass


Posted 4/15/15 , edited 4/15/15


You missed my point completely and always ignore my questions but typical of religious nuts or whatever you are I'm arrogant but the churches are not arrogant? that's what I meant with "apologetic" you don't want to admit that it is wrong so you start rambling to justify their ways...like you just did here: "How can I judge an entire congregation of people for thinking homosexuality is a sin, when it's in the OT and NT and repeated several times"

Ding ding ding!

That's what I wanted to see how can you say that if you didn't believe it? well, sir... you don't know the Bible (like the majority of christians) and if you're going to use that poor excuse to defend the churches you're playing yourself.

Oh and you didn't think twice to judge me, well...you can judge me all you want haha

The movie link was for the message, it sucks because it goes against your/the churches beliefs.

I'm done but if you wanna know why you're wrong with Leviticus and Romans (the only places where it *might* talk about homosexuality) send me a PM. I know religious topics can be sickening and I don't want to perturb people here.

If not, stay with your ignorance and please, stop making these annoying threads.

5621 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 4/15/15

Ssomething wrote:

You missed my point completely and always ignore my questions but typical of religious nuts or whatever you are I'm arrogant but the churches are not arrogant? that's what I meant with "apologetic" you don't want to admit that it is wrong so you start rambling to justify their ways...like you just did here: "How can I judge an entire congregation of people for thinking homosexuality is a sin, when it's in the OT and NT and repeated several times"

Ding ding ding!

That's what I wanted to see how can you say that if you didn't believe it? well, sir... you don't know the Bible (like the majority of christians) and if you're going to use that poor excuse to defend the churches you're playing yourself.

Oh and you didn't think twice to judge me, well...you can judge me all you want haha

The movie link was for the message, it sucks because it goes against your/the churches beliefs.

I'm done but if you wanna know why you're wrong with Leviticus and Romans (the only places where it *might* talk about homosexuality) send me a PM. I know religious topics can be sickening and I don't want to perturb people here.

If not, stay with your ignorance and please, stop making these annoying threads.



Well... I like eating pork, but I don't judge others who think it's a sin.
When not being judgmental is considered bigoted, we've taken social justice too far. You seem to think that any christians who disagree with homosexuals have some sort of anger or hatred towards them. If so, you're disillusioned. Most churches don't condemn them.

You do understand that religious people typically say, "hate the sin, love the sinner"

Also, you have a different interpretation of those verses... fine. Go to your pro-gay churches and talk about it there. Nothing wrong with your belief, but you can't judge people who have a standard interpretation.

And I thought the movie sucked becuase it was like a shitty lifetime original movie. If it was the message, I'd not have enjoyed Revolutionary girl utena or Yuri Kuma Arashi. But I loved those shows. Revolutionary Girl Utena was my favorite anime of all time, depsite it's pro-gay and feminist overtones.

Also, this thread was about prosperity pastors, you're the one bringing up gays
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.