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Post Reply What would you do if you were a teacher/principle and most of your class engaged in passive aggressive bullying?
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Posted 4/16/15

severticas wrote:


gvblackmoon wrote:


severticas wrote:

Put him in another class lol, im kidding. He' probably the problem if so many have a problem with him.


All you do with that is make the problem worse. If the kids are old enough to understand what they are doing and that is the problem kids are kids after all. You explain to them as a group as to what they are all doing wrong. You all need to get more folks adults involved than yourself to fix this problem.





Sir_jamesalot wrote:


severticas wrote:
He' probably the problem if so many have a problem with him.


You are too quick to decide that.





pirththee wrote:

It's pretty hard to get a group of more than 4 individuals to devise a plan, agree with it's aspects,and then have the discipline to follow it through to fruition.25 to 40 people?Children with varying degrees of attention spans?Very unlikely.


^ @gvblackmoon and Sir_Jamesalot: See here as to why he's probably the problem


How many kids do you work with? The local sea scout program that I have associated with now for decades has had kids like this guess what their disability is manageable and they can learn how to cope. We make sure they are included this is how you treat these kids you do not exclude them.You teach the other kids how to deal with them as well. As an adult you have to lead and set the expected behavior.

The group works together to overcome the problem everyone learns from it not just one or two. By making the child the sole source of the problem you are making things worse for them. By developing means by which to deal with the actually problem you are able to get a handle on it and develop tools that all the kids will be able to use.

This is why the teacher leads and takes an active role in the process if they require help with that the school should have that help but the whole idea that the one kid would be exclude is wrong. Solutions are there you need to look for them you get a much better outcome by actually figuring out and teach kids how to deal wit the issue than just ignoring the problem.

Oh yeah it isn't 20 to 40 kids in this case it is upwards of 100 at any given time. We have lots of managing tricks we use but they work and no one is excluded. If it gets to the point where we do have a problem child and those do happen and they are unwilling to learn they get punted from the program but that is the exception to the rule not the rule.
Posted 4/16/15 , edited 4/16/15

gvblackmoon wrote:

How many kids do you work with? The local sea scout program that I have associated with now for decades has had kids like this guess what their disability is manageable and they can learn how to cope. We make sure they are included this is how you treat these kids you do not exclude them.You teach the other kids how to deal with them as well. As an adult you have to lead and set the expected behavior.

The group works together to overcome the problem everyone learns from it not just one or two. By making the child the sole source of the problem you are making things worse for them. By developing means by which to deal with the actually problem you are able to get a handle on it and develop tools that all the kids will be able to use.

This is why the teacher leads and takes an active role in the process if they require help with that the school should have that help but the whole idea that the one kid would be exclude is wrong. Solutions are there you need to look for them you get a much better outcome by actually figuring out and teach kids how to deal wit the issue than just ignoring the problem.

Oh yeah it isn't 20 to 40 kids in this case it is upwards of 100 at any given time. We have lots of managing tricks we use but they work and no one is excluded. If it gets to the point where we do have a problem child and those do happen and they are unwilling to learn they get punted from the program but that is the exception to the rule not the rule.


Cool.
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Posted 4/16/15
Be friends with that student?

Hey, no one can pick on you if you're friends with the teacher
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Posted 4/16/15

gvblackmoon wrote:


severticas wrote:


gvblackmoon wrote:


severticas wrote:

Put him in another class lol, im kidding. He' probably the problem if so many have a problem with him.


All you do with that is make the problem worse. If the kids are old enough to understand what they are doing and that is the problem kids are kids after all. You explain to them as a group as to what they are all doing wrong. You all need to get more folks adults involved than yourself to fix this problem.





Sir_jamesalot wrote:


severticas wrote:
He' probably the problem if so many have a problem with him.


You are too quick to decide that.





pirththee wrote:

It's pretty hard to get a group of more than 4 individuals to devise a plan, agree with it's aspects,and then have the discipline to follow it through to fruition.25 to 40 people?Children with varying degrees of attention spans?Very unlikely.


^ @gvblackmoon and Sir_Jamesalot: See here as to why he's probably the problem


How many kids do you work with? The local sea scout program that I have associated with now for decades has had kids like this guess what their disability is manageable and they can learn how to cope. We make sure they are included this is how you treat these kids you do not exclude them.You teach the other kids how to deal with them as well. As an adult you have to lead and set the expected behavior.

The group works together to overcome the problem everyone learns from it not just one or two. By making the child the sole source of the problem you are making things worse for them. By developing means by which to deal with the actually problem you are able to get a handle on it and develop tools that all the kids will be able to use.

This is why the teacher leads and takes an active role in the process if they require help with that the school should have that help but the whole idea that the one kid would be exclude is wrong. Solutions are there you need to look for them you get a much better outcome by actually figuring out and teach kids how to deal wit the issue than just ignoring the problem.

Oh yeah it isn't 20 to 40 kids in this case it is upwards of 100 at any given time. We have lots of managing tricks we use but they work and no one is excluded. If it gets to the point where we do have a problem child and those do happen and they are unwilling to learn they get punted from the program but that is the exception to the rule not the rule.


It's not the number of kids you deal with.It's the number of kids you deal with effectively and towards what end.My comment was geared toward school class size as per the original premise, and not some extra curricular activity with an implied religious goal.I was pointing out the unlikely event that all class members would shun an individual using the method described. My comment was then taken out of context by someone else for their own purposes.Does the Sea Scout program prohibit adult gay men from being leaders as do the Boy Scouts?
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Posted 4/16/15

pirththee wrote:


gvblackmoon wrote:


severticas wrote:


gvblackmoon wrote:


severticas wrote:

Put him in another class lol, im kidding. He' probably the problem if so many have a problem with him.


All you do with that is make the problem worse. If the kids are old enough to understand what they are doing and that is the problem kids are kids after all. You explain to them as a group as to what they are all doing wrong. You all need to get more folks adults involved than yourself to fix this problem.





Sir_jamesalot wrote:


severticas wrote:
He' probably the problem if so many have a problem with him.


You are too quick to decide that.





pirththee wrote:

It's pretty hard to get a group of more than 4 individuals to devise a plan, agree with it's aspects,and then have the discipline to follow it through to fruition.25 to 40 people?Children with varying degrees of attention spans?Very unlikely.


^ @gvblackmoon and Sir_Jamesalot: See here as to why he's probably the problem


How many kids do you work with? The local sea scout program that I have associated with now for decades has had kids like this guess what their disability is manageable and they can learn how to cope. We make sure they are included this is how you treat these kids you do not exclude them.You teach the other kids how to deal with them as well. As an adult you have to lead and set the expected behavior.

The group works together to overcome the problem everyone learns from it not just one or two. By making the child the sole source of the problem you are making things worse for them. By developing means by which to deal with the actually problem you are able to get a handle on it and develop tools that all the kids will be able to use.

This is why the teacher leads and takes an active role in the process if they require help with that the school should have that help but the whole idea that the one kid would be exclude is wrong. Solutions are there you need to look for them you get a much better outcome by actually figuring out and teach kids how to deal wit the issue than just ignoring the problem.

Oh yeah it isn't 20 to 40 kids in this case it is upwards of 100 at any given time. We have lots of managing tricks we use but they work and no one is excluded. If it gets to the point where we do have a problem child and those do happen and they are unwilling to learn they get punted from the program but that is the exception to the rule not the rule.


It's not the number of kids you deal with.It's the number of kids you deal with effectively and towards what end.My comment was geared toward school class size as per the original premise, and not some extra curricular activity with an implied religious goal.I was pointing out the unlikely event that all class members would shun an individual using the method described. My comment was then taken out of context by someone else for their own purposes.Does the Sea Scout program prohibit adult gay men from being leaders as do the Boy Scouts?


That is not a policy we can't really do anything about at this time we give feed back which is all we can really do. Since it is a policy set at the national level. We will however take any kid and have always had that policy at the local level. Even in a school setting the same rules apply include don't exclude unless you have no other recourse of actions. Teach kids how to deal with those that are different you get better results. This method scales to any size group and works pretty well.
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Posted 4/16/15 , edited 4/16/15

pirththee wrote:

It's pretty hard to get a group of more than 4 individuals to devise a plan, agree with it's aspects,and then have the discipline to follow it through to fruition.25 to 40 people?Children with varying degrees of attention spans?Very unlikely.


Separate groups of four or less engaging in the same conduct and reinforcing its status as acceptable/funny/whatever else based upon the observation that this is "what everyone else is doing", however, isn't that difficult to imagine. Nor is a small group acting alone while the remainder of the crowd keeps their mouths shut and avoids getting involved to avoid putting themselves at risk of isolation or attack, especially once the bystander effect is taken into account. The assumption that someone is already helping or will volunteer help shortly, and therefore one's help would be extraneous, is a dangerously common one.
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Posted 4/16/15
It actually seems like a situation that should be handled differently depending on the age of the students. Younger students tend to shy away from what they don't understand due to fear. Older students see a weakness and go after it like sharks. So, I'm betting the students you're talking about are most likely pre-junior high school. If that's the case the answer is obvious. Have a "career day" and invite in a few nurses, dr's, social workers, charity workers to speak on the scientific front of why they treat everyone the same despite their sickness, disease or in this case "different ability". If I'm wrong and it's older students I need to agree that the fact of him being shunned may be more fortunate than the alternative. From my experience of being targeted (in HS and JHS) I would've definitely preferred being shunned.
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Posted 4/16/15

neugenx wrote:

It actually seems like a situation that should be handled differently depending on the age of the students. Younger students tend to shy away from what they don't understand due to fear. Older students see a weakness and go after it like sharks. So, I'm betting the students you're talking about are most likely pre-junior high school. If that's the case the answer is obvious. Have a "career day" and invite in a few nurses, dr's, social workers, charity workers to speak on the scientific front of why they treat everyone the same despite their sickness, disease or in this case "different ability". If I'm wrong and it's older students I need to agree that the fact of him being shunned may be more fortunate than the alternative. From my experience of being targeted (in HS and JHS) I would've definitely preferred being shunned.


Yes, I believe the age factor and length of association would be more of a determinate in the predictability of the response.
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Posted 4/16/15 , edited 4/16/15
Nothing.
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Posted 4/16/15

BlueOni wrote:


pirththee wrote:

It's pretty hard to get a group of more than 4 individuals to devise a plan, agree with it's aspects,and then have the discipline to follow it through to fruition.25 to 40 people?Children with varying degrees of attention spans?Very unlikely.


Separate groups of four or less engaging in the same conduct and reinforcing its status as acceptable/funny/whatever else based upon the observation that this is "what everyone else is doing", however, isn't that difficult to imagine. Nor is a small group acting alone while the remainder of the crowd keeps their mouths shut and avoids getting involved to avoid putting themselves at risk of isolation or attack, especially once the bystander effect is taken into account. The assumption that someone is already helping or will volunteer help shortly, and therefore one's help would be extraneous, is a dangerously common one.


Not all kids especially pre junior high would recognize the cause and effect of the aforementioned rendition on a life boat scenario.Your model might be more appropriate in association with the social upheavals in a High School,but even simple acknowledgement can invalidate the model.
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Posted 4/16/15

severticas wrote:
^ @gvblackmoon and Sir_Jamesalot: See here as to why he's probably the problem


If you have a problem with him, it's your problem.
Posted 4/16/15 , edited 4/16/15

Sir_jamesalot wrote:


severticas wrote:
^ @gvblackmoon and Sir_Jamesalot: See here as to why he's probably the problem


If you have a problem with him, it's your problem.


Yes, so what? It's just scenario, chill. This is unlikely to happen given the extremity. That's why i'd have a problem with him, not as a person but a factor. I don't have to think of him as a person and even if i did, i'd probably not be sympathetic towards him.
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Posted 4/16/15

pirththee wrote:

Not all kids especially pre junior high would recognize the cause and effect of the aforementioned rendition on a life boat scenario.Your model might be more appropriate in association with the social upheavals in a High School,but even simple acknowledgement can invalidate the model.


It would at best describe a transient state, true enough.
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Posted 4/16/15
I would pull a few sociable kids aside and ask them to befriend him. It wouldn't be a demand, just a suggestion. Tell 'em to put theirselves in this kids shoes. Or at least try to.

These kinds of things are sensitive, and most people don't know how to handle situations like that. It's understandable. They don't mean to, or rather, they don't know how to socialize with someone with a struggle like that. And it's not their fault; they just are unaware of people who struggle socially and mentally.
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Posted 4/17/15

severticas wrote:


Sir_jamesalot wrote:


severticas wrote:
^ @gvblackmoon and Sir_Jamesalot: See here as to why he's probably the problem


If you have a problem with him, it's your problem.


Yes, so what?


You dissed him because it was the path of least resistance, not because he was the real problem.
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