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Post Reply Sex & Sexual Content - Society's view, the Industry's view, & Your view
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21 / F / US of A
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Posted 4/18/15
If sexual content is done in a tasteful way, it for the most part isn't a problem with me. I do feel a bit used when there is sexual content on screen or on the page just for the sake of it being there. If it adds to the experience (like sets up mood, atmosphere, character development) in more than just fap material, I'll get behind it. I do feel a bit awkward when actual sexy times gets brought up, but that's mostly due to my own experiences.

That's the gist of what I think anyway.
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22 / M / Colorado
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Posted 4/18/15
Of course, there is some animes where sex wouldn't be really relevant at all, but there's others that could have benefited from it/was weird that it was never really shown. Some shows are more mature than others in nature, so putting in sex in it wouldn't really have benefited something like Ano Natsu de Matteru. I'm more referring to series where sex would have made a lot of sense to have it in some form. An example of this would be Clannad (for the record, Clannad: After Story is my 3rd favorite anime ever).

Nagi no Asukara would be an example of something that I believe should have some kissing (not between all the couples, mainly one in particular). It irked me that it was never shown at all..... for the record this is one of my favorite shows ever, I loved Nagi but that part in particular really got on my nerves. Though, I can also argue that the show was suppose to be open ended and was about finding love and not necessarily about acting upon it. Nagi would be a lighter example of no kissing bugging me. I still find it hilarious that Glasslip got the kiss, but not Nagi.

Another thing that generally frustrates me when a story will avoid at all costs to show no sexual content at all for no good reason, but will be fine with showing things such as violence and profanity. I find it strange that people are fine with seeing body parts being chopped, but god forbid consensual sex. I'll get more on this later though....
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Posted 4/18/15
Regarding kissing; I think there's nothing wrong with it but some anime avoid it probably because of the setting, genre or audience. Fanservice; it's okay to have a bit here and then but sometimes it's too much.
Posted 4/18/15 , edited 5/13/15
Great, a thread for me


PsychedelicFear wrote:

First off I don't think you should be comparing violence and sex; they are too different things that society is exposed to at vastly different degrees and thus are dealt with in a very different way.


Which in return shows a rather large problem with society itself. Violence is not something we encounter in our everyday lives (at least most people in civilized countries don't), sex is. It may have a lot to do with how far removed from us and generally speaking unrelatable violence seems, since it's not a large part of our lives, but I do find the contrast to be rather shocking in which violence and sexuality are portrayed.
"All Ages" apparently seems to mean that showing hard and sometimes very realistic violence like people getting shot in the head or getting their throats slit is apparently okay, but even the faintest references to sexuality or people being in a sexual relationship are completely off bounds.
It makes me wonder what kind of morals we are teaching to our children and it honestly worries me.


PsychedelicFear wrote:

the reason is that more often than not it's uncomfortable to watch — especially if you and a couple of friends are hanging out

[...]

Now, sex is taboo for a myriad of reasons. We could spend a loong time talking about this, but honestly it comes down to how a lot of someone's morals and the overall zeitgeist of a populous is passed down from generation to generation. It changes, but not rapidly.


Now, you're right about the second part. It will take decades if not generations to accomplish such a huge shift in paradigms, but I think in order for us to accomplish something as a society, everyone of us has to start as soon as possible. You know it's bullshit, right? Why do you think that it is uncomfortable to watch sexual content (no, I am not taking about porn or clumsily executed fanservice) with a group of friends? What reason is there to feel uncomfortable? Are you denying that sex is a part of your life?
I too think that society has to mature in order for sexuality to be accepted as something completely normal, but just saying "that's the way it is" is probably the worst way to go about it.


PsychedelicFear wrote:

Normal people don't go around talking about and sharing their pornographic endeavors.


Now that is something completely different though. I can see people getting embarassed about that since something like your sexual desires and preferences are indeed a very private thing. Same thing applies to what you're actually doing when you're alone with your partner. But I think that neither I nor Loomy are talking about that.
What irks me is the straight up denial that people are having sex. Having sex is not a bad thing. It's as natural as it gets. I don't have to know the details, I am honestly not interested in that, but why is sex seen as something "Bad" or "Inpure" in general?


wingsday wrote:

Last thing, KLK was an ecchi comedy with no sex and I doubt anybody is going to complain about that


Kill la Kill is nothing I would call sexual though. The naked skin shown in this show was more used to illustrate a point (or several) rather than try to make people horny or display a sexual relationship.


seekerperson7 wrote:

1. I don't play visual novels, so I can't speak to that dichotomy. I can say that if I ever started, I would prefer for them to keep it that way though. I don't see anything wrong with it all ages vs explicit.


The point is that it takes away from the immersion into the material. If you have two people who are clearly in love with other and have said so on multiple occasions yet show no physical signs of it for no adequate reasons, I find myself to be taken out of the story, since I can't believe in the romance that is being set up. These people are in love. Why? Because they said so.
Now, I don't think that I'd have to tell you what the problem is with the opposite end of the spectrum, do I? The lack of moderation leads to there being very little actually believable, relatble and authentic feeling romance within Visual Novels, at least from my point of view.


seekerperson7 wrote:

3. Sex is not "worse" or even bad - it's just not appropriate or desired for all viewers. Honestly, I don't really know what you mean by it being "frowned upon" - especially in the West. I have to supremely disagree on that front. With regard to anime, however, i'd say there are a variety of reasons - but i'd coalesce them into two primary ideas. First, quite a few anime characters are minors. Second, even for shows with adult characters, sex isn't always necessary to the story. I for one am not a fan of just throwing in sex to make a show more "adult". For the record, I feel the same way about gore.


It's not about making it more adult, it's about being realistic, natural and relatable. Kissing, hugging and sex is a thing that happens, even with minors. And before you shout "child porn" in my face, I have said before that I am not interested in seeing the details. Again, moderation is what I want. I just want the medium to at least allude to what happened, to not deny that there is something going on there. It may not be desired for all viewers, but the same thing applies to pretty much everything. There are people that don't want to see characters smoke or drink, people that find a show that talks about religion to be appaling and lots and lots of people have a huge problem with violence in general. I am not talking in throwing in sex for the sake of having sex. No, that would go into Ecchi or Hentai territory. It's about doing what feels naturally instead of awkwardly moving around the topic of sex and every turn.


PsychedelicFear wrote:

Sex is an intimate thing, most people aren't keen to sharing and flaunting their private lives, so naturally, when it comes to a medium that you want to utilize for a shared experience with others — like an anime, movie, book — having it overly sexual wouldn't do it any favors for either mass appeal or simply being comfortable talking about it.



seekerperson7 wrote:

4. See the above. I'd say it's probably "taboo" because sex is an inherently intimate and private act. Why don't you see more anime characters go to the bathroom? It's a natural part of life, but you don't always want to see that part of someone else's life. Now, i'm not really trying to draw that analogy directly or say "sex is disguising" or anything like that - i'm just trying to use it to illustrate a point: namely, that you don't always want to see certain aspects of other people's lives.


Now, this is what I don't understand. It's legitimate to see sexual acts as something intimate and private, but the same would apply to things like love confessions or marriage proposals. But those are apparently completely okay. Why the split between the mental and the physical? If you want to protect the sacred bond two people share why only apply it to how they physically show their love to each other? Why is one thing considered pure and the other inpure?
Nobody is talking about directly showing the ins and outs (literally) of someone's sex life, what I am talking about is showing the bond that two people share by having them kiss, hug and go to bed with each other, like people tend to do in real life. You don't have to be explicit about it, but you don't have to shy away from it completely either. Moderation is the keyword here.

And moderation is what Anime, VN's and so on sorely lack. Now, I don't have a problem with Ecchi and Hentai. Those have their point. They are a fantasy made to sexually arouse people, just like porn is. Nothing wrong with that at all. When it comes down to it, fanservice is a larger problem.
Now, I don't have a problem with fanservice in general. I don't avoid shows with a lot of fanservice, especially when you're watching an Ecchi it's kind of a dumb point to complain about, since that is the point of the show in the first place. And I do understand why fanservice exists. It does however strengthen the public oppinion of sexual things being dirty, embarassing and inpure, since the way it is being portrayed is just so immature most of the time. And that is what I don't like about it.

And maturity is all it comes down to in the end. The Anime industry and we as a society need to find a mature way to deal with sexual content. Sexual relations are as much of a natural thing as sleeping or eating, it's the most normal thing in the world and while I don't think that it will ever be seen as such, we definitely have to get away from the immature mindset that sex is "inpure", "dirty" or "a big no no". And the first step on that way would be more products trying to handle the topic of sexuality in a rational and adult way, rather than shying away from it or producing sexual material that is mainly meant for arousal. The representation of sexuality within the medium of Anime needs to become more natural, instead of going into the extremes we mostly have today.

Now, I too realize that this is not something that can be achieved over night and I personally doubt that I'll get to see the day when the standing of sexuality within society has come to the point that I think it should be at, but we'll never get there if people continue on with the attitude of "sex is a taboo, can't do anything about it". Because sexuality in itself (again, I am not talking about details about your sexual life or preferences) being looked at so closeminded is bullshit and you all know it.
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23 / F / Under Yo Bed
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Posted 4/18/15
well first off i would be happy to rant about fan service in animes! firstly because there is to much (BOOBIES) ( . Y . ) As a girl i spend 24/7 looking a my own boobs (not really im flat chested) i do not enjoy looking at camel toes i do not enjoy romance because it's OVERUSED! but i do enjoy (YAOI) let me remind you girls watch anime too and there are lots of yaoi fangirls and not enough yaoi animes to satisfy our needs HELL! THERE IS NOT ENOUGH BOY BASED ANIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes i watched free and love stage and any yaoi anime ever made! but there is little sex scenes on yaoi like what the fuck is up with that? we have hentai and so far literally the only yaoi i've seen with actual sex is "Boku no pico" and "Sensitive Pornograph" (sensitive pronograph is great check it out) but i also like lolicon like"kidomo no jikan" it weirdly satisfies me... but anyway i hope we have more yaoi because personally anime is getting old nothing new to catch my interest except, gugure kokkuri san,rinne, and my favorite gintama <333
mnmike 
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Posted 4/18/15
One thing I appreciate about manga and Visual Novels (and even, to a lesser extent, anime) is that they aren't afraid to tell stories about people in love with healthy sex lives.

Hollywood actually doesn't depict much sex, and what there is tends to be either bawdy humor about guys trying to get laid (American Pie, 40 Year Old Virgin, etc.) OR salacious stories about affairs -- usually affairs gone bad (Infidelity, Fatal Attraction, anything shown on Lifetime). When happy married couples are shown--like in many sitcoms--the implication is almost always that either their "sex life has gone cold" or that the "wife hates sex". Moreover, on-screen depictions of sex are extremely rare outside of porn, and porn is completely uninterested in telling a story (oh, there is a lot of implied sex... but little actually shown).

But in Japan, you have Visual Novels that show sex as a natural step in a relationship between people who love each other--and in which it is integrated into a larger romantic plot line (yes, not all of them are like this, but many are). There is an anime called "I Can't Understand What My Husband is Saying" about a married couple that actually likes having sex with each other, and does so often in a healthy way. There are manga like Toshiue no Hito (about a guy who is actually impotent unless he's having sex with someone he's in love with), There are entire categories of ecchi and Borderline-H manga and anime, which have real stories about couples and which actually put their sex lives on camera (instead of just hinting at it around the edges).

That being said, I do have two complaints about sex in anime/manga/VNs:
1) Rape/Sexual Assault are way too common, forced sexual contact is often portrayed as "she'll like it once she gets into it" or "she really wants it no matter what she's saying", and rape is almost always consequence free for the attackers (My Love Story is perhaps unique in that a groper actually gets handed over to the police). There are also shows that integrate titillation with violence (Freezing is probably the worst offender, but not the only one). Groping, Sexual Assault, and Rape are all huge problems in Japan (perhaps more so than in the US even), and the industry isn't helping.

2) Sex is often discussed, but contraception almost never is. Sex is often portrayed as fairly consequence free (outside of emotional baggage), or with pregnancy as the only worry. Yes, I understand that the AIDS epidemic hasn't (yet) really hit Japan very hard, but there are plenty of other STDs that have.
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44 / M / Canada
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Posted 4/18/15 , edited 4/18/15
As a blanket statement let me say I am against all forms of censorship, except the humorous kind where they make fun of censorship by making it so overboard.
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25 / M / Netherlands
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Posted 4/18/15
I actually kinda hate fanservice on animes that are really good in itself and want to show it to friends or family. I feel that I need to watch the serie first before I could recommend it to someone (luckly my brother stopped watching SAO after the first part of the first season).

Although the SchoolDays anime was morally wrong, they did a good job in concealing all the H-scenes that occured in the VN and just only hinting it a few times.

Don't get me wrong, I do like Ecchi animes like DxD and 'My Mental Choices are Completely Interfering with my School Romantic Comedy' just because they're comepletly devoted to the Ecchi gerne.
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46 / M / Chapel Hill, N.C
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Posted 4/18/15 , edited 4/18/15
This is a touchy subject. There are shows with ecchi that I like ("High School DxD" and "Freezing" for instance). Two hentai mangas I happen to like are "Goddess of the Glass" and "Shocking Pink". I've seen stuff in anime and manga that would certainly offend a lot a people and yes, I've seen things that shock even me. And there is sexual material in anime can work well depending on how its done. I'll give you a recent example.

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38 / M / Reno, NV
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Posted 4/18/15

Okocha119 wrote:

Now, you're right about the second part. It will take decades if not generations to accomplish such a huge shift in paradigms, but I think in order for us to accomplish something as a society, everyone of us has to start as soon as possible. You know it's bullshit, right? Why do you think that it is uncomfortable to watch sexual content (no, I am not taking about porn or clumsily executed fanservice) with a group of friends? What reason is there to feel uncomfortable? Are you denying that sex is a part of your life?
I too think that society has to mature in order for sexuality to be accepted as something completely normal, but just saying "that's the way it is" is probably the worst way to go about it.


I will say that I think, even within my lifetime, it is beginning to change a little. Not much, but a little. It's also a bit of a balancing act, since it's hard to know what people will or won't accept. Back when it was on the air 15 or so years ago, I would watch Queer as Folk with my brother (I know it isn't anime, but work with me). I'm not gay, but I could appreciate the show's other qualities. I'd be lying if I said the sex scenes didn't make me uncomfortable. I didn't have a problem with them being there, since that's obviously what the audience wanted...but it didn't mean I really wanted to watch them. And I know a lot of people wouldn't have watched it at all because of those scenes.


And moderation is what Anime, VN's and so on sorely lack. Now, I don't have a problem with Ecchi and Hentai. Those have their point. They are a fantasy made to sexually arouse people, just like porn is. Nothing wrong with that at all. When it comes down to it, fanservice is a larger problem.
Now, I don't have a problem with fanservice in general. I don't avoid shows with a lot of fanservice, especially when you're watching an Ecchi it's kind of a dumb point to complain about, since that is the point of the show in the first place. And I do understand why fanservice exists. It does however strengthen the public oppinion of sexual things being dirty, embarassing and inpure, since the way it is being portrayed is just so immature most of the time. And that is what I don't like about it.


I think this is kinda what Loomy is going for here. It isn't so much that *more* sex should be in the anime. It's mainly that the portrayal of sexual content tends to be done in a fairly immature manner. If there's sexual content in an anime, it's usually bouncing boobs or shirtless guys, people in the shower and the like. Shoujo and josei manga are better in this regard; series like Nana and Kare Kano show characters in loving, romantic relationships with physical contact, consensual sex, and even consequences. But not many of those get made into anime.

Really, if you think about it, how many series with actual romances end with the main characters not even kissing? Or, as the KyoAni cliche goes, showing the back of the characters' heads while they kiss, as if showing their lips was akin to full frontal nudity?

Truthfully, this actually becomes *more* absurd in ecchi/harem series. You end up with series like Seikon no Qwaser, where the main characters' relationship is comically chaste, given that he's literally suckling her breasts every other episode. It's like, if the series has graphic nudity, they have to make up for it by having the central characters not acknowledge their own sexual desires. There are exceptions, obviously (the recently ended Testament of New Sister Devil is one, for instance), but it is curious that so many series with graphic "sexual content" go out of their way to make the scenes with this content so deliberately non-sexual.
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21 / M / Shortbread Land
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Posted 4/18/15
Whenever one of these threads is made I always turn to the prophet for wisdom:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRoAroipx2s
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38 / M / Reno, NV
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Posted 4/18/15

mnmike wrote:

But in Japan, you have Visual Novels that show sex as a natural step in a relationship between people who love each other--and in which it is integrated into a larger romantic plot line (yes, not all of them are like this, but many are). There is an anime called "I Can't Understand What My Husband is Saying" about a married couple that actually likes having sex with each other, and does so often in a healthy way. There are manga like Toshiue no Hito (about a guy who is actually impotent unless he's having sex with someone he's in love with), There are entire categories of ecchi and Borderline-H manga and anime, which have real stories about couples and which actually put their sex lives on camera (instead of just hinting at it around the edges).


That's actually what drew me to visual novels in the first place. While it isn't true of all of them, many VNs do have relationships that are more "honest" than in anime or American TV. In those stories, the sex naturally fits into the context of the story to add connection to the relationship, even if its purpose is also to titillate. Granted, the sex scenes are *very* rarely accurate portrayals of sex, but that's another story.


2) Sex is often discussed, but contraception almost never is. Sex is often portrayed as fairly consequence free (outside of emotional baggage), or with pregnancy as the only worry. Yes, I understand that the AIDS epidemic hasn't (yet) really hit Japan very hard, but there are plenty of other STDs that have.


I'll agree this is a problem, but it's also a tough balancing act. If you go too far with it, you end up like every American TV drama in the 80's/90's, where teen pre-marital sex always led to: 1) a pregnancy scare, that usually led to 2) struggling with whether or not to get an abortion, which almost always ended with 3) a miscarriage/false pregnancy. At that point, it's petty moralizing that portrays the consequences of teen sex in the most ham-fisted manner possible. Some manga series have actually done it well (Nana and Kare Kano come to mind), I will agree they're the exception, not the rule. And there *really* seems to be some sort of issue with discussing contraception, though that is sociologically explainable, at least.
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20 / Cold and High
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Posted 4/18/15
Well about want to see more or less then:
If its used right for (very hard to be done right!!) romance.
else if its shows or knows about what they are doing.
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27 / M
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Posted 4/18/15
Industry's view - In the western world and a lot of Asia sex sells so it's good business. Protected, unprotected, both generate money. Either from condom and toy sales, or STD treatment sales. The media also likes it because it gives tabloids something to write about and gives news channels something scandalous. For TV programming it gives the writers a script that writes itself. Reality TV digs it too because there is a lot that is taboo but draws people's attention.

Society's view - The average person thinks it's good but how public it should be, with whom and when you have sex varies from person to person. Those factors determine when the sex is seen as good or bad. Good sex(i.e. married couple) is seen as a right of passage and a happy occasion and bad sex(i.e. rape, child abuse, with a goat) is seen as a disgusting crime.

My view -
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35 / M
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Posted 4/18/15 , edited 4/18/15
Let's stop making this about japanese media, since you want to avoid the fanservice discussion, and let's include our native media as well.

Sex sells, and the taboos on what's been allowed to be show has changed as we've shifted further and further away from network tv (and, in fact TV in general) as our source of media.

Because it's such an easy sell, and because you can get away with it more, media companies have been relying on it more and more for garnering audiences. Nobody gives a shit about plot or characters anymore (as evidenced by this meme





Which honestly, really sucks.

To be frank, the internet is FUUUUUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of porn. Free porn. If I want to see breasts and nekkidness, I'll go to the internet's vast databases of porn.

If I'm watching a TV show or something else,I'm trying to be entertained with a story or good characters. I don't NEED sex in my stories. And, quite frankly, it's piss poor quality to see gratuitous sex and sexualization in my shows compared to what I can find elsewhere.

So I'm kinda left feeling apathetically frustrated by not having something to decently arouse me, and at the same time, having sex being sold to me at times where it's not what I'm wanting. Neither is a state I want to be in, and overall, I'm left feeling cheated.

I just wish they'd stop.
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