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Post Reply Sex & Sexual Content - Society's view, the Industry's view, & Your view
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Posted 4/18/15 , edited 5/12/15
I would love to respond to this later. I have nothing against fanservice. I have something against pointless fanservice that is used only fo attract a viewer.
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22 / M / Colorado
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Posted 4/19/15

imaginarycreatures wrote:

I just realized that, even though I've responded to others, I haven't really set my own thoughts out.


Great response man

We essentially have the same views. I really agree with this:

Neither of these are necessarily the only types of romances that need exist. The actual contents of the work should dictate the level of sexual content that is present. For some stories, it shouldn't move past kissing/making out. For some, a simple "fade to black" as the characters move to the bed/futon would suffice. For others, maybe it makes sense for actual act of foreplay/sex to be shown; some stories are actually *about* sex, or have sex as a major plot point, after all. It's entirely based on the situation.

It just depends on the story and context if it's appropriate, and if it's appropriate then it shouldn't be excluded just for "censoring" sake. I'm a staunch believer in allowing the author pursue exactly how he/she wants the story and characters to interact and not have to be weighed down by company policies and other disadvantages. Though, there also has to be more authors wanting to pursue more realistic interpretations of sex so it's a two way street.

Obviously company polices and crap like that have a lot of say in the matter, so it's not just the author's fault per se. I'm not putting the blame on just one certain group of individuals because there is a many groups of people that make this situation a problem. Society has a whole has made views on sex a problem.

And it sounds like I gotta try out Nana, I always see it being praised.
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Posted 4/19/15

imaginarycreatures wrote:

Perhaps it is rewording the question originally asked, or maybe this is me asking a new question, but: To what degree do you think sexuality should be portrayed in a work aimed at...let's say an audience of 12 or older? Is kissing okay? Making out? Laying in bed together? Implicit references to sex having occurred off-screen?


Hmmm this gave me an idea: To include other people's questions in the OP. This should make it even more fun I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to include your question in the OP.
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Posted 4/19/15
I think there's ways to approach more adult themes in a mature way but as OP pointed out it usually seesaws to one side or the other with ratings and what tries to fit in to ratings.

Now I'm not a fanservice or sex person with my manga/anime. I can handle sexual themes but I get to a point where I'm thinking 'ok already, PLOT!". So I usually wind up watching tamer stuff or fast forwarding through sexual situations. I know my view is coming from a strict place and not everyone's like that but not everyone in to anime is a 12 year old child or a stereotypical sex obsessed otaku, it's finding the middle ground which takes some time and energy.

There's a place for sexuality in the fandom, yes. But we only see what Japan largely wants us to see unless we really dig deep and sex sells.
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Posted 4/19/15

Legendzerox wrote:

I would love to respond to this later. I have nothing against fanservice. I have something against pointless fanservice that is used only fo attract a viewer.


Yep! Here, here.

There needs to be a separate genre for self-serving fan service. Plenty of people like heavy fanservice for the fanservice itself so why not just do fanservice focused as itself?
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Posted 4/19/15

LoomyTheBrew wrote:

We essentially have the same views. I really agree with this:

Neither of these are necessarily the only types of romances that need exist. The actual contents of the work should dictate the level of sexual content that is present. For some stories, it shouldn't move past kissing/making out. For some, a simple "fade to black" as the characters move to the bed/futon would suffice. For others, maybe it makes sense for actual act of foreplay/sex to be shown; some stories are actually *about* sex, or have sex as a major plot point, after all. It's entirely based on the situation.

It just depends on the story and context if it's appropriate, and if it's appropriate then it shouldn't be excluded just for "censoring" sake. I'm a staunch believer in allowing the author pursue exactly how he/she wants the story and characters to interact and not have to be weighed down by company policies and other disadvantages. Though, there also has to be more authors wanting to pursue more realistic interpretations of sex so it's a two way street.


I think that's the thing. People tend to think of it as an "all or nothing" type of situation. I don't think that everything should have more sexuality, and I don't think that the sexuality needs to equate to nudity. I'd just like more diversity in the ways anime is able to tell their stories, instead of the way it currently stands, where sexuality is generally represented in a very small number of ways.



And it sounds like I gotta try out Nana, I always see it being praised.


I would definitely recommend it. Unfortunately, Ai Yazawa hasn't returned to working on the manga since her illness in 2009, so the manga is still unfinished. She is really one of the best writers I've read in any medium at portraying sexuality in relationships. Both Nana and Paradise Kiss do it very well.
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Posted 4/19/15 , edited 4/19/15

LoomyTheBrew wrote:

This is an interesting point. Seems like you and I agree that if there isn't a good artistic reason to not include the kissing then we'd raise an eyebrow and could possibly consider it awkward/strange. However, if there's a good reason then I could understand, I would say Nagi is a good example of a show having no kisses for good reasons (though one relationship should have had it towards the end, but oh well). Nagi's whole purpose was to focus on why we love people and how we deal with it internally, not so much on the relationship itself. It was about finding love and respecting it. So if it's because of a reason like that then I can be ok with it.

And it it's because of the time it's airing and what station it's on, then I guess there's no helping it. Still, there's ways to work around it: Look at Evangelion with Misato and her sex scene with Kaji.


All true, but there's one more thing to consider: the censorship we never see or know about. Artists actually self-censor, and more frequently than you might imagine. While I think that artists (at least as far as entertainment is concerned) ought to have a dynamic relationship with their audiences and take their wants, thoughts, and feelings into account while creating a work (which can at times be the underlying cause of the self-censorship), I think it is nevertheless also the case that an artist needs to be allowed to set some boundaries and maintain creative control (which can also be a cause). This works best when an artist retains creative control over the canon work and allows derivative works to satisfy those it wasn't enough for or went in another direction than some would've preferred.

I really think that fan works are a constructive solution to the "problem" of artist self-censorship resulting in dissatisfaction from the audience even if they don't technically know it happened, and furthermore offer a wider, cost-free avenue for advertising the canon work. As a double bonus, keeping a loose hand on derivative works like doujinshi and fan fiction improves the audience's relationship with the artist by casting an open-minded, friendly, welcoming image thereof and allows his or her ideas to grow beyond what he or she might have been able to produce alone. Artists who are hostile to this sort of growth are, I think at least, ultimately doing themselves a disservice by choking their works' potential. They're ultimately cheating themselves.


Ya, I think you have a point when saying that a part of it has to do with protecting the young (at least in America). But like you said, I think it's a disservice to kids because shielding from a reality like sex isn't going to help anyone. I really appreciate my school because they taught us sex ed in 5th grade. Granted, I was already watching porn in 4th grade , but I still respect they introduced it to us as a unit at a relatively young age.

Shielding I don't think helps anyone really. It's best to explain in a way that they can understand, like you said, kids are tough.


That's right, though I hasten to emphasize that it is not important just to explain things in a way they can understand, but also to monitor one's timing. The trick is (as far as early childhood is concerned, at least) to let the child set the pace. Answer their questions honestly and in a way they can understand, but only answer the specific questions they ask. Dumping too much information will only confuse them. For example:

"Mommy, why does Sarah have two mommies?"

"Because sometimes girls fall in love with other girls."

or

"Mommy, where do babies come from?"

"From mommies and daddies."

And you leave it at that. If they press further, you answer exactly what they ask just like before.


PS: I put some of those shows and that manga on my to do list.


I really think that Girl Friends is one of my top manga ever. It's not an exciting read, being a slice-of-life title about a girl's discovery of her attraction to other girls. Nevertheless, I think it is a valuable and interesting read which reached me on a personal level. That might make me a tad biased, but I still think it's good even from an objective standpoint.
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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 4/19/15
I like cute girls.

Loli are evil.

Pretty much my opinion on the matter.
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Posted 4/19/15

maxgale wrote:

I like cute girls.

Loli are evil.

Pretty much my opinion on the matter.


Methinks Megaman doth protest too much.
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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 4/19/15 , edited 4/19/15

BlueOni wrote:


maxgale wrote:

I like cute girls.

Loli are evil.

Pretty much my opinion on the matter.


Methinks Megaman doth protest too much.



But I DO like cute girls.

I am a champion of justice, not fujoshi.
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Posted 4/19/15

maxgale wrote:

But I DO like cute girls.

I am a champion of justice, not fujoshi.


Hmmm...what do they call the yuri equivalent of a fujoshi? I don't think I've ever heard a term for that.
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Posted 4/19/15

BlueOni wrote:


maxgale wrote:

But I DO like cute girls.

I am a champion of justice, not fujoshi.


Hmmm...what do they call the yuri equivalent of a fujoshi? I don't think I've ever heard a term for that.


There isn't an equivalent, because girl luv is pure luv.
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Posted 4/19/15

maxgale wrote:

There isn't an equivalent, because girl luv is pure luv.


I guess that's what I'll have to call you then: "Megaman, Champion of Justice and purveyor of pure love". Megaman for short.
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36 / M / Planet Sanno
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Posted 4/19/15

imaginarycreatures wrote:
A more graphic example that does this well is the visual novel School Days (the anime does as well, but in a slightly...different way). This VN has a lot of different branching paths, many of which involve sex, but they are tremendously varied in their contexts. Some of the scenes are transactional, some are designed to provoke jealousy, some are about love, some about guilt, some about revenge. Some end with pregnancy, and some (infamously) end with murder. It's tremendously melodramatic, but in a manner that's still somewhat believable. What I think makes it so strong is that it doesn't apply a "one size fits all" rubric to all sexual encounters, and it portrays the physical act of sex in a much more believable way than almost any other story of its type I've ever seen (there's actually a scene involving premature ejaculation, a situation that's very realistic for a virgin about to get laid for the first time).


I am going to give you general props for all of the points you have made in your series of posts here, IC, but I am going to give you bonus points for this analysis. *slow clap*
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31 / M / The Abyss of Time
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Posted 4/19/15

xxJing wrote:

Now don't get me wrong, I am not a prude. I just think that the idea of sex actually takes away from a story. It's nothing more than a distraction most of the time.


This line fits my line of thought on it. Paired with the idea that adding in sex makes that seem like the main point of a relationship, when its not. Having an emotional attachment (love) is what should be the focus/point of a relationship not trying to get sex from someone (lust). Implied sex scenes give the implication that yes there was sex but doesn't make it about lust.


Legendzerox wrote:

I would love to respond to this later. I have nothing against fanservice. I have something against pointless fanservice that is used only fo attract a viewer.


Totally agree.
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