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Post Reply How important is freedom to you?
Posted 4/30/15 , edited 4/30/15

BlueOni wrote:


Amaya- wrote:

Its about ingratitude, not free speech. Protesters is all good , within reason, but just as many of us business types love and can thrive in a capitalist society. Its not really that bad a country. A lot have advantages america hasn't and lots of drawbacks too.


To be certain we're on the same page I would like you to clarify exactly who you're calling ingrates.


I didn't mean you, but any of the kind of Americans who are often quite successful but complain incessantly about how better it is in other countries, when given the chance to live overseas would become disillusioned , wouldn't be any happier, and most likely would want to come back. Those kinds of people who take their freedoms for granted and don't appreciate what their country, while not being perfect, does for them. Also ppl*cough*weebs*cough* who think knowing everything about anime means they know everything about japan, then go over there and get a reality check that japan isn't like in the manga, and not all japanese are into anime , or gaijin who do especially. I'm not a patriot but god it gets annoying. I think wanting progressive change for the better is healthy within reason but theres a fine line, and anyone who is free and prosperous due to capitalism in america but just complains about their country for no other reason than to be bored is ungrateful.
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Posted 5/1/15 , edited 5/1/15

Amaya- wrote:

I didn't mean you, but any of the kind of Americans who are often quite successful but complain incessantly about how better it is in other countries, when given the chance to live overseas would become disillusioned , wouldn't be any happier, and most likely would want to come back. Those kinds of people who take their freedoms for granted and don't appreciate what their country, while not being perfect, does for them. Also ppl*cough*weebs*cough* who think knowing everything about anime means they know everything about japan, then go over there and get a reality check that japan isn't like in the manga, and not all japanese are into anime , or gaijin who do especially.


So essentially the complaint is against those who have basically taken a brief glance at a country and decided "Hey! This is what we should be like!" To go back to Denmark for a moment, it's the difference between those who see it and say:

"Hey! They take care of people there! The schooling's free, the healthcare's free, the people are nice, why shouldn't that be us?!"

and those who say:

"Well, on the one hand university is a lot more accessible because it costs a great deal less, and overall quality is still going to be pretty good by international standards. On the other hand, that cheaper university is paid for by spreading the expense out to everyone, and that translates into higher tax rates. It's one of many strategies for ensuring access to education, and while I consider it to be the more rational and safer option in the long run it's not a perfect strategy. Likewise, healthcare costs a lot less overall and is free at the point of access, but the thing is that this once again boosts taxes and you have to keep in mind how healthcare networks are managed there. Things are handled at the municipal level for the most part, which means if the US were to try to emulate the Danish system it would have to do so primarily through state and local governments rather than the federal one. Blah blah blah blah blah Denmark blah blah blah blah blah I hope you like beaches and flat, grassy fields blah blah blah blah blah I hope you like riding bicycles blah blah blah blah blah better learn the metric system blah blah blah blah blah a bottle of Coca Cola costs about twice as much as you're probably used to paying and only comes with about half what you're probably used to drinking blah blah blah blah blah yes, the people really are pretty bloody nice."


I'm not a patriot but god it gets annoying. I think wanting progressive change for the better is healthy within reason but theres a fine line, and anyone who is free and prosperous due to capitalism in america but just complains about their country for no other reason than to be bored is ungrateful.


But I am confused now, because this framing of capitalism and European welfare states as at odds doesn't describe a real thing. It's just something the US has imagined up. European welfare states like Sweden and Denmark are still capitalist societies. The socialist parties in Europe enter coalitions with labour parties, but they're still distinct.
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Posted 5/1/15
Very important...religion is the biggest thing for me!! Aside from that I will take all of my amendments. And aside aside from that if I lived in a country where anime was banned or censored I would just DIE
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Posted 5/1/15
We all have equal freedom, given to us by God, we have the freedom to do right and wrong. The only thing is people who tell you that you can't, it is your choice to obey them.
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Posted 5/1/15
Our freedom is only worth as much as we're all willing to pay
Posted 5/1/15 , edited 5/1/15

BlueOni Blah blah blah blah blah Denmark blah blah blah blah blah I hope you like beaches and flat, grassy fields blah blah blah blah blah I hope you like riding bicycles blah blah blah blah blah better learn the metric system blah blah blah blah blah a bottle of Coca Cola costs about twice as much as you're probably used to paying and only comes with about half what you're probably used to drinking blah blah blah blah blah yes, the people really are pretty bloody nice."


No pun intended with your Maison Ikkoku avatar, Akemi Roppongi: in case it changes, but you need to lay off the sauce, you are waay too drunk.

And now to the lucid moment it would seem (notice instead of picking out of context use of spoilers?):




BlueOniBut I am confused now, because this framing of capitalism and European welfare states as at odds doesn't describe a real thing. It's just something the US has imagined up. European welfare states like Sweden and Denmark are still capitalist societies. The socialist parties in Europe enter coalitions with labour parties, but they're still distinct.


You are confused only in so far as thinking I'm framing anythng other than by my saying I like my government. How you think my personal preferences say I think we are at war is psychosis, yours. That they are distinct, and thankfully so with damnable pride. And while at least -I- am free of conspiracy theories against 'Murica I think its possible a reverse scenario. America's conglomerates and CEOs and foreign ones (Japan no matter nation ideology, they have foreign vestments here stateside) even might prevent a political shift in your favor from ever occurring, a conspiracy theory borne of self-interest and maintaining the status quo.


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Posted 5/1/15
The replies in this topic makes me sick to my stomach.
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24 / M / Tokyo, Japan
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Posted 5/1/15
As loing as i have the freedom to beat off in the privacy of my own house without being scrutinized by the government, i am content with the amount of freeedom i have. Sure, sometimes i would like the freedom to log into the beta without being called a "beater" or a beta cheater, but you cantr have your cake and eat it too.
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Posted 5/1/15
Henry David Thoreau valued the freedom of others so much, he went to jail for refusing to pay taxes to support a corrupt war and the issue of slavery
JRC-jr 
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22 / M / Ohio
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Posted 5/1/15
As long as the government does not interfere with my daily routine, i could care less.
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Posted 5/2/15

Amaya- wrote:

No pun intended with your Maison Ikkoku avatar, Akemi Roppongi: in case it changes, but you need to lay off the sauce, you are waay too drunk.

And now to the lucid moment it would seem (notice instead of picking out of context use of spoilers?):



I had assumed you meant people irrationally applying an ideal they'd constructed in their own minds surrounding other countries to said countries since you'd brought up "weebs" (to use your own term). Further, I'd assumed that you'd take my meaning with that joke and understand that I meant the difference between someone who understands the context and character of the Danish system versus someone who simply takes it at face value and doesn't investigate it beyond that point before becoming enthusiastic about it.

What you have seen isn't the product of alcohol (in this case, anyway). It's a failed attempt at levity in an otherwise serious conversation.


You are confused only in so far as thinking I'm framing anythng other than by my saying I like my government. How you think my personal preferences say I think we are at war is psychosis, yours. That they are distinct, and thankfully so with damnable pride. And while at least -I- am free of conspiracy theories against 'Murica I think its possible a reverse scenario. America's conglomerates and CEOs and foreign ones (Japan no matter nation ideology, they have foreign vestments here stateside) even might prevent a political shift in your favor from ever occurring, a conspiracy theory borne of self-interest and maintaining the status quo.


I've had to read this multiple times in order to try to glean what you're saying, but I think I've got it:

"All I mean by saying I support capitalism is that I support the US economic model. If you imagine that I consider European welfare states to be something which must be actively opposed you are doing just that: imagining it. I've said no such thing. It is also the case that socialist parties in Europe are distinct from labour parties, and this is a good thing. Now, while I personally do not fall into the camp of those who think social democracy or socialism are looming threats which must be actively opposed, it is nevertheless the case that I also think there are those among prominent business interests in the US (both domestic and foreign) which have a strong interest in opposing the establishment of either system. This opposition is born primarily of their rational economic self-interest in maintaining the status quo."

Is that what you were going for? I think you may have had a few yourself.
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Posted 5/2/15
I sold a significant chunk of my "freedom" for job security and a good paycheck. I guess not that important?

If you're familiar with the principles of causality, the notion of freedom is largely an irrelevant illusion, anyways.
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Posted 5/2/15

Magical-Soul wrote:

The replies in this topic makes me sick to my stomach.


Honestly? Is the reprehensible part the deviation from your ideals, the presumed apathy of some of the posters, or is it the grammar?

You're taking it too seriously.
dpunk3 
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Posted 5/2/15
Honestly, I get terrified at the notion of a lifestyle change on a fundamental level such as being free, and then becoming oppressed. I have a lot of friends in different states that are equally important and I worry I won't be able to see them/ talk to them/ visit them at all if something like that were to happen. I'm also not sure if I would be one of the people to jump in the line of fire to protect that luxury. I'd like to think I would, but you never know until it happens.
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Posted 5/2/15
It depends how you define freedom. If you just let everyone do what they want then a lot of small people will have control over smaller people but if you have one big group in charge then it means everyone has the freedom to do what they want under that framework. I mean look at what is happening in places like Iraq after the big people in charge were removed and replaced with smaller people who don't hold the same respect across the country. Now it's small people all hitting each other.

As i am now i can do what i want as long as i don't break any laws i suppose if freedom to you is being able to break laws and arm yourself to the teeth then my country is not so free.
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