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Post Reply Anyone but Hillary Clinton? Bernie Sanders 2016
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Posted 5/5/15 , edited 5/5/15
Bernie Sanders, the longest serving independent in Congress and a self-described "democratic socialist", announced that he would be running against Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination for president last week. His campaign calls for a "political revolution" in America and is solely funded by individual donations from everyday Americans, not the billionaires. The day after his announcement, Sanders had 100K new volunteers and raised $1.5 million.

Unlike Hillary's recent attempts at moving to the left on certain political issues in order to pander to the populists, Bernie's track record has been consistent throughout his political career, making him already popular with progressives and socialists.

Bernie wants to attack the rich and try to limit their power on the government. He is against big money in politics and wants to undo Citizens United. He believes the US can take some cues from Scandinavia and wants to reduce military spending and use that spending for other government programs.

Even if he doesn't win the Democratic nomination, he will force Clinton shift to the left on her moderate policies. A win-win situation for Democrats.

You can learn more about Sanders and his policies here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE4Q5wQo77A

Here's a chart displaying Hillary's and Bernie's campaign contributors:

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Posted 5/5/15
All dat union support though... I'll pass.
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Posted 5/5/15
This is where I stand


There's so many social issues that would be so simple with a libertarian solution.. LGBT rights is one issue that Libertarians seem to be the only sensible ones on. Liberals wanna make a class of people feel "special", while conservatives wanna disenfranchise them.

It seems like the left and right just can't seem to grasp simple solutions for simple problems
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Posted 5/5/15 , edited 5/5/15
Libertarians live in Alaska, and don't take drugs but vote for legalization.

We'll get someone BETWEEN Hillary and Bernie sooner or later--probably some state governor who came out of nowhere--who'll pick up the populist support and more positive message without an overbearing agenda.
That'll at least take away what seems to be Hillary's only main momentum, "She's the only one we have to talk about right now, so that means we have to get used to voting for her!"

Way back in the '08 Convention, I thought I had it figured that whoever delivers the blowaway speech ends up groomed as the next candidate (Bill Clinton in '12 doesn't count), so I mentally sealed bets in an envelope that we'd be hearing from Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia in '16.
I'd be up for that, but seems to be a little late in happening.
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Posted 5/5/15

Ejanss wrote:

Libertarians live in Alaska, and don't take drugs but vote for legalization.

We'll get someone BETWEEN Hillary and Bernie sooner or later--probably some state governor who came out of nowhere--who'll pick up the populist support and more positive message without an overbearing agenda.
That'll at least take away what seems to be Hillary's only main momentum, "She's the only one we have to talk about right now, so that means we have to get used to voting for her!"

Way back in the '08 Convention, I thought I had it figured that whoever delivers the blowaway speech ends up groomed as the next candidate (Bill Clinton in '12 doesn't count), so I mentally sealed bets in an envelope that we'd be hearing from Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia in '16.
I'd be up for that, but seems to be a little late in happening.


ROFLROFLROFL
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Posted 5/5/15 , edited 5/6/15

silversongwriter wrote:

This is where I stand


There's so many social issues that would be so simple with a libertarian solution.. LGBT rights is one issue that Libertarians seem to be the only sensible ones on. Liberals wanna make a class of people feel "special", while conservatives wanna disenfranchise them.

It seems like the left and right just can't seem to grasp simple solutions for simple problems


Libertarianism would've rose among the right and become a major threat to the left if it wasn't destroyed by anti-government crazies. It's basically seen as a cult now for young-aged capitalists who haven't gotten their head out of their ass. Libertarians have good social policies (excluding national defense and guns), but their calls for free-market capitalism... Yuck.
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Posted 5/5/15
No matter who the heck it'll be, it'll wind up more of the same.
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Posted 5/5/15

LONGNAMEYOUWONTMISS wrote:

Libertarianism would've rose among the right and become a major threat to the left if it wasn't destroyed by anti-government crazies. It's basically seen as a cult now for young-aged capitalists who haven't gotten their head out of their ass. Libertarians have good social policies (excluding national defense and guns), but their calls for free-market capitalism... Yuck.


I agree.

Bernie Sanders is really appealing to me as a candidate, but I very sincerely doubt that he will win over Hillary Clinton. He's pushing her a bit to the left on things, but I don't think that will have a major and lasting impact on her if she were to elected to the presidency.
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LONGNAMEYOUWONTMISS wrote:


silversongwriter wrote:

This is where I stand


There's so many social issues that would be so simple with a libertarian solution.. LGBT rights is one issue that Libertarians seem to be the only sensible ones on. Liberals wanna make a class of people feel "special", while conservatives wanna disenfranchise them.

It seems like the left and right just can't seem to grasp simple solutions for simple problems


Libertarianism would've rose among the right and become a major threat to the left if it wasn't destroyed by anti-government crazies. It's basically seen as a cult now for young-aged capitalists who haven't gotten their head out of their ass. Libertarians have good social policies (excluding national defense and guns), but their calls for free-market capitalism... Yuck.


Capitalism is a necessity... Even countries with big government and oppressive rules have capitalism such as China... That's because Capitalism works, and it's made China one of the largest and most powerful nations on the planet.

And guns are very important, when you lose guns, state nullification rights, or free speech, your living in a totalitarian dictatorship in the making.... Liberalism is socially backwards, Conservatives would have it right economically, however, the corruption ruins what would have been a good free market system.
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Posted 5/5/15 , edited 5/5/15

silversongwriter wrote:

This is where I stand


There's so many social issues that would be so simple with a libertarian solution.. LGBT rights is one issue that Libertarians seem to be the only sensible ones on. Liberals wanna make a class of people feel "special", while conservatives wanna disenfranchise them.

It seems like the left and right just can't seem to grasp simple solutions for simple problems
they should really make a chart like this for the elections
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Posted 5/5/15 , edited 5/5/15

silversongwriter wrote:


LONGNAMEYOUWONTMISS wrote:


silversongwriter wrote:

This is where I stand


There's so many social issues that would be so simple with a libertarian solution.. LGBT rights is one issue that Libertarians seem to be the only sensible ones on. Liberals wanna make a class of people feel "special", while conservatives wanna disenfranchise them.

It seems like the left and right just can't seem to grasp simple solutions for simple problems


Libertarianism would've rose among the right and become a major threat to the left if it wasn't destroyed by anti-government crazies. It's basically seen as a cult now for young-aged capitalists who haven't gotten their head out of their ass. Libertarians have good social policies (excluding national defense and guns), but their calls for free-market capitalism... Yuck.


Capitalism is a necessity... Even countries with big government and oppressive rules have capitalism such as China... That's because Capitalism works, and it's made China one of the largest and most powerful nations on the planet.

And guns are very important, when you lose guns, state nullification rights, or free speech, your living in a totalitarian dictatorship in the making.... Liberalism is socially backwards, Conservatives would have it right economically, however, the corruption ruins what would have been a good free market system.


Pure capitalism is a broken clock. Human greed will destroy any attempt at a fair free market system. China's economic growth is an example of capitalism gone wrong; high economic growth combined with worker exploitation and unusual high investment rates. Their model of capitalism will not last. Responsible capitalism combined with socialist policies is the best for both workers and corporations.

The issue of guns and how they should be limited is a debatable issue that would fill up pages and pages of this thread. Some things need to be limited; too much freedom can be a bad thing.
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Posted 5/5/15

silversongwriter wrote:


LONGNAMEYOUWONTMISS wrote:

Libertarianism would've rose among the right and become a major threat to the left if it wasn't destroyed by anti-government crazies. It's basically seen as a cult now for young-aged capitalists who haven't gotten their head out of their ass. Libertarians have good social policies (excluding national defense and guns), but their calls for free-market capitalism... Yuck.


Capitalism is a necessity... Even countries with big government and oppressive rules have capitalism such as China... That's because Capitalism works, and it's made China one of the largest and most powerful nations on the planet.

And guns are very important, when you lose guns, state nullification rights, or free speech, your living in a totalitarian dictatorship in the making.... Liberalism is socially backwards, Conservatives would have it right economically, however, the corruption ruins what would have been a good free market system.


Capitalism is far from a necessity. In fact, capitalism didn't become a major economic system until the second millennium AD, but things still worked before then, and there were plenty of advancements. Small scale capitalism did exist in most cases, yes, but it was far from the current form of capitalism.

At the same time, it is easy enough to see the negative impact that unrestricted capitalism has to offer. Poor conditions for workers, low wages, and less than adequate products. Upton Sinclair is well known for exposing many of the horrible effects that big business wrought: poor quality of food going to the public, workers being unable to support themselves on their wage, and many other sad truths. The FDA is a very important federal agency, and without them, the food being sold would be much poorer. They don't even get the funds and power that they should, at the moment, but them existing in a poor state is better than not existing at all. Laissez-faire economics is not something to be desired.
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Posted 5/5/15

Schmooples wrote:


silversongwriter wrote:


LONGNAMEYOUWONTMISS wrote:

Libertarianism would've rose among the right and become a major threat to the left if it wasn't destroyed by anti-government crazies. It's basically seen as a cult now for young-aged capitalists who haven't gotten their head out of their ass. Libertarians have good social policies (excluding national defense and guns), but their calls for free-market capitalism... Yuck.


Capitalism is a necessity... Even countries with big government and oppressive rules have capitalism such as China... That's because Capitalism works, and it's made China one of the largest and most powerful nations on the planet.

And guns are very important, when you lose guns, state nullification rights, or free speech, your living in a totalitarian dictatorship in the making.... Liberalism is socially backwards, Conservatives would have it right economically, however, the corruption ruins what would have been a good free market system.


Capitalism is far from a necessity. In fact, capitalism didn't become a major economic system until the second millennium AD, but things still worked before then, and there were plenty of advancements. Small scale capitalism did exist in most cases, yes, but it was far from the current form of capitalism.

At the same time, it is easy enough to see the negative impact that unrestricted capitalism has to offer. Poor conditions for workers, low wages, and less than adequate products. Upton Sinclair is well known for exposing many of the horrible effects that big business wrought: poor quality of food going to the public, workers being unable to support themselves on their wage, and many other sad truths. The FDA is a very important federal agency, and without them, the food being sold would be much poorer. They don't even get the funds and power that they should, at the moment, but them existing in a poor state is better than not existing at all. Laissez-faire economics is not something to be desired.


Well, yea I support reasonable regulations.. but the federal government can easilly go too far. Socialism is similar. Socialism has gone wrong many, many times through history as well
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Posted 5/5/15

silversongwriter wrote:


Schmooples wrote:

Capitalism is far from a necessity. In fact, capitalism didn't become a major economic system until the second millennium AD, but things still worked before then, and there were plenty of advancements. Small scale capitalism did exist in most cases, yes, but it was far from the current form of capitalism.

At the same time, it is easy enough to see the negative impact that unrestricted capitalism has to offer. Poor conditions for workers, low wages, and less than adequate products. Upton Sinclair is well known for exposing many of the horrible effects that big business wrought: poor quality of food going to the public, workers being unable to support themselves on their wage, and many other sad truths. The FDA is a very important federal agency, and without them, the food being sold would be much poorer. They don't even get the funds and power that they should, at the moment, but them existing in a poor state is better than not existing at all. Laissez-faire economics is not something to be desired.


Well, yea I support reasonable regulations.. but the federal government can easilly go too far. Socialism is similar. Socialism has gone wrong many, many times through history as well


Capitalism has gone wrong many, many times throughout history, and I would argue that it is easier for the population would have an easier time controlling the government than they would big business. After all, it was the people who applied pressure to the government that established regulations on business - they were unable to directly impact the businesses themselves because of the power they had through wealth and resources.

A government is a proxy of the people (or should be), whereas a business's only motivation is in profit. I'd chose government any time. That isn't to say that I see no danger in government power, however - on the contrary, I am very wary of power being hoarded by government. However, with adequate balances and checks, it is possible to keep the people in control. The same does not apply to business in pure capitalism, as the power (money) flows naturally to, and is hoarded by, businesses.
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Posted 5/5/15 , edited 5/6/15
Er...getting back to Senator Bernard Sanders...I think he's a fairly mainstream social democrat, and I'd be happy to see his thinking spread. I'm just not convinced he's electable, even compared to Warren. He's vice president material at best.
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