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Posted 5/24/15 , edited 5/24/15

latinaloverTX wrote:


hmmm this is new to me, still hard to imagine Shirou agreeing to join Shinji's side especially once he finds out what he's done to Sakura but meh.


farispie wrote:
Esp. this one infamous scene in the VN called Nine Bullet Revolver. So I hope they nail his characterization, or at least try to (and this may mean more monologues).


Now I'm curious about this, may have to search YT.


Also, I know this is debate, but HF is a darker story than the other two routes, and so there is a lot potential for stuff to be censored, which I don't really prefer.


Speaking only for myself and only voicing a view: I just want Sakura to be shown some level of respect and dignity (much like if this were irl I'd want the victim to be shown the same level of it). I'm not sure when we'll know 100% the degree of 'dark' they'll be diving into but I'd assume it'd be shown past the first 5 chapters (which I assume being similar to both Fate and UBW intro's with HF's own twist to it like those before it). I'd just be worried about them slipping into objectification/sexualization/fetishization territory.

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Posted 5/24/15 , edited 5/24/15

xCrimsonEX wrote:

Speaking only for myself and only voicing a view: I just want Sakura to be shown some level of respect and dignity (much like if this were irl I'd want the victim to be shown the same level of it). I'm not sure when we'll know 100% the degree of 'dark' they'll be diving into but I'd assume it'd be shown past the first 5 chapters (which I assume being similar to both Fate and UBW intro's with HF's own twist to it like those before it). I'd just be worried about them slipping into objectification/sexualization/fetishization territory.



Yeah....... This may not be the route for you. It was very uncomfortable to play through. Its a good story but I wouldn't call it sexually progressive in anyway. Very lurid and sceezy.
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Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15

xCrimsonEX wrote:


latinaloverTX wrote:


hmmm this is new to me, still hard to imagine Shirou agreeing to join Shinji's side especially once he finds out what he's done to Sakura but meh.


farispie wrote:
Esp. this one infamous scene in the VN called Nine Bullet Revolver. So I hope they nail his characterization, or at least try to (and this may mean more monologues).


Now I'm curious about this, may have to search YT.


Also, I know this is debate, but HF is a darker story than the other two routes, and so there is a lot potential for stuff to be censored, which I don't really prefer.


Speaking only for myself and only voicing a view: I just want Sakura to be shown some level of respect and dignity (much like if this were irl I'd want the victim to be shown the same level of it). I'm not sure when we'll know 100% the degree of 'dark' they'll be diving into but I'd assume it'd be shown past the first 5 chapters (which I assume being similar to both Fate and UBW intro's with HF's own twist to it like those before it). I'd just be worried about them slipping into objectification/sexualization/fetishization territory.



===================================================================================================

Hrmm, well most of the serialization is more descriptive than outright showing her naked on screen (sans the H scenes with Shirou which don't matter as much as the rest of the sexual stuff in HF ), but the narrative does go into great detail textwise in terms of what she's thinking, what her body is physically going through, the magecraft's function, etc.

As for the Nine Bullet Revolver scene, I am not sure how impactful it will be for you without the build up before it, but its an amazing scene that shows how powerful monologues and necessary can be.

So, I'll give you context for it, but its better to see the build up (ideally through the VN because monologues) before it :




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Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15

megahobbit wrote:

Yeah....... This may not be the route for you. It was very uncomfortable to play through. Its a good story but I wouldn't call it sexually progressive in anyway. Very lurid and sceezy.


I know basically what to expect just based on research + having a friend of mine that has played through the VN mention various things; my main thing would be for them to try to hold back and treat the whole thing with respect (walk on thin ice in a sense). For instance I wouldn't want them to toss in a nude shot or sex scene everywhere they could fit it just because 'ecchi', I get that some may be needed but not a floodgate's worth. Either way I suffered through Wolf Guy: Wolfen Crest so I probably will go through whatever this has in store too.



farispie wrote:

Hrmm, well most of the serialization is more descriptive than outright showing her naked on screen (sans the H scenes with Shirou which don't matter as much as the rest of the sexual stuff in HF ), but the narrative does go into great detail textwise in terms of what she's thinking, what her body is physically going through, the magecraft's function, etc.

As for the Nine Bullet Revolver scene, I am not sure how impactful it will be for you without the build up before it, but its an amazing scene that shows how powerful monologues and necessary can be.

So, I'll give you context for it, but its better to see the build up (ideally through the VN because monologues) before it :


The main question is whether the mangaka will choose to take advantage of the story's situation and show as much naked Sakura as they can or will they choose to give her some dignity and respect. The tone so far hints at them showing her some respect and dignity but again its only a chapter so hard to get a good lock on their tone. (using they and their cause dunno if mangaka is male or female).

I'll watch the vid when I get the time (its added to my 'watch later' list). I guess this means that
isn't the only servant corrupted (one of the things Sakura does in this route that hits my anger switch towards her). And I think a friend of mine may have figured out which ending Bad End 40 (iirc that's the one you mentioned before) was and yh if he's right
that's another one of the things Sakura does in this route that flares my anger but he wasn't 100% sure on it.
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Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15

xCrimsonEX wrote:


megahobbit wrote:

Yeah....... This may not be the route for you. It was very uncomfortable to play through. Its a good story but I wouldn't call it sexually progressive in anyway. Very lurid and sceezy.


I know basically what to expect just based on research + having a friend of mine that has played through the VN mention various things; my main thing would be for them to try to hold back and treat the whole thing with respect (walk on thin ice in a sense). For instance I wouldn't want them to toss in a nude shot or sex scene everywhere they could fit it just because 'ecchi', I get that some may be needed but not a floodgate's worth. Either way I suffered through Wolf Guy: Wolfen Crest so I probably will go through whatever this has in store too.


Its kinda the most sexual of the routes. Very fucked up sex I may add. Nasu's sex scenes are never sexy even when there trying to be


Pic related

But this goes kinda beyond that. Some if its played for horror some of its not. I certainly would not say its respectful. It reminds me alot of Neonomicon by Alan Moore which while I think Alan Moore generally handles sexual assault well, he certainly did not handle it well in that story. Like I said both stories(Heavens Feel and Neonomicon) are good they do not handle there subject matter is a classy way aiming a more exploitative angle on the subject matter. Shame cause Sakura is pretty attractive but all the sexual stuff surrounding her is not attractive at all.

To show you how far it goes though you will be spoiled check out the nightmare fuel page on the route on tv tropes
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/FateStayNight
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Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15

latinaloverTX wrote:


xCrimsonEX wrote:

I know there was originally an Illya route that was later incorporated into other routes while the whole route was scrapped but the Shinji one is news to me since I've never heard of such a thing before.


Originally there was going to be "Shinji route", an option to accept his invitation to join forces in the Fate route, players would have gotten to see a bit of Shinji's good side. But with the tight schedule with the deadline has forced them to cut it.[2] While not present in-game, the script files contain a joke about Shirou teaming up with Shinji. http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Shinji_Matou

this is a file in the game i think
("Yay, I'll cooperate"
"Really?"
"Of course. Betraying Tohsaka and selling her out, betrayed by Sakura and getting sold out, the Baka-Nii-chans are now born!"
"...? I don't get your high tension, but does that mean I can trust you?"
"Yeah! But I'll betray you in the end!"
...So, the 20million-powers route with Shin-chan starts here.
Well, it would if we had the time.
"Eject!"
Optimus Prime will appear too!?)


Uggghh glad that didnt make it into the game. Fucking Shinji McSavilletons getting portrayed in a good light would make me vomit. One of the things I dont like about UBW is that they let the fucker live.

Anyway feel like I should make this joke

>TFW Heaven
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Posted 5/25/15

megahobbit wrote:


latinaloverTX wrote:


xCrimsonEX wrote:

I know there was originally an Illya route that was later incorporated into other routes while the whole route was scrapped but the Shinji one is news to me since I've never heard of such a thing before.


Originally there was going to be "Shinji route", an option to accept his invitation to join forces in the Fate route, players would have gotten to see a bit of Shinji's good side. But with the tight schedule with the deadline has forced them to cut it.[2] While not present in-game, the script files contain a joke about Shirou teaming up with Shinji. http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Shinji_Matou

this is a file in the game i think
("Yay, I'll cooperate"
"Really?"
"Of course. Betraying Tohsaka and selling her out, betrayed by Sakura and getting sold out, the Baka-Nii-chans are now born!"
"...? I don't get your high tension, but does that mean I can trust you?"
"Yeah! But I'll betray you in the end!"
...So, the 20million-powers route with Shin-chan starts here.
Well, it would if we had the time.
"Eject!"
Optimus Prime will appear too!?)


Uggghh glad that didnt make it into the game. Fucking Shinji McSavilletons getting portrayed in a good light would make me vomit. One of the things I dont like about UBW is that they let the fucker live.

Anyway feel like I should make this joke

>TFW Heaven


if not then shinji wouldn't have live in the sequel of fate/stay night
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Posted 5/25/15

megahobbit wrote:
-snip-


Then I'll have to hope that the mangaka decides to step in and not go the same direction as Nasu went. I'd rather the focus be shifted off of 'Sakura is attractive' and more towards 'Sakura is a sympathetic character that needs someone to depend on and to save her.', since the prior is, to me, shallow and the latter is deeper.

I've probably already read through the Nightmare Fuel section for it knowing me and how easily I get sucked into tvtropes.
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Posted 5/25/15

xCrimsonEX wrote:

Then I'll have to hope that the mangaka decides to step in and not go the same direction as Nasu went. I'd rather the focus be shifted off of 'Sakura is attractive' and more towards 'Sakura is a sympathetic character that needs someone to depend on and to save her.', since the prior is, to me, shallow and the latter is deeper.

I've probably already read through the Nightmare Fuel section for it knowing me and how easily I get sucked into tvtropes.


Point of it wasnt that Sakura being T&A would have made the story better(in fact it would have made it worse) it that the sex in the route was very disgusting and lurid. Sakura's characterization is fine its just that I wish the sex in the route would have been handled in a classier way.
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Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15

megahobbit wrote:

Point of it wasnt that Sakura being T&A would have made the story better(in fact it would have made it worse) it that the sex in the route was very disgusting and lurid. Sakura's characterization is fine its just that I wish the sex in the route would have been handled in a classier way.


Kind of annoying that the only thing listed for the mangaka is 'Typemoon' instead of an actual mangaka to look for previous work =.=

I'm hoping that the mangaka will shift the sex aspect towards a different direction since its their adaptation. I think they should take a look at Speed Grapher (dunno if you've seen it so may not get what I mean) and how it handled darker/mature matters including abuse of a daughter in a way I can manage with. I'd say that at least there will be some changes from how the VN presented it due to it not per se being Nasu himself doing it.

On the characterization part, I was more saying towards where this manga will go. I'd rather have them trying to push the idea of Sakura needing to be saved (both from her situation and herself) and needing someone to lean on, rather than putting any kind of emphasis on how attractive she is, her having sex, or anything in that vein. Emotion over sexuality (or maybe I should say physical).
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Posted 5/25/15

xCrimsonEX wrote:

Kind of annoying that the only thing listed for the mangaka is 'Typemoon' instead of an actual mangaka to look for previous work =.=

I'm hoping that the mangaka will shift the sex aspect towards a different direction since its their adaptation. I think they should take a look at Speed Grapher (dunno if you've seen it so may not get what I mean) and how it handled darker/mature matters including abuse of a daughter in a way I can manage with. I'd say that at least there will be some changes from how the VN presented it due to it not per se being Nasu himself doing it.

On the characterization part, I was more saying towards where this manga will go. I'd rather have them trying to push the idea of Sakura needing to be saved (both from her situation and herself) and needing someone to lean on, rather than putting any kind of emphasis on how attractive she is, her having sex, or anything in that vein. Emotion over sexuality (or maybe I should say physical).


Ehh neither portrayal Is something I would like personally or morally lord knows we dont need anymore "women to be saved" and "women as sex objects" right know. But personally having played the route I would settle for her characterization there. Wont spoil it for you but you will find out its kind of neither.
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Posted 5/28/15

megahobbit wrote:


xCrimsonEX wrote:

Kind of annoying that the only thing listed for the mangaka is 'Typemoon' instead of an actual mangaka to look for previous work =.=

I'm hoping that the mangaka will shift the sex aspect towards a different direction since its their adaptation. I think they should take a look at Speed Grapher (dunno if you've seen it so may not get what I mean) and how it handled darker/mature matters including abuse of a daughter in a way I can manage with. I'd say that at least there will be some changes from how the VN presented it due to it not per se being Nasu himself doing it.

On the characterization part, I was more saying towards where this manga will go. I'd rather have them trying to push the idea of Sakura needing to be saved (both from her situation and herself) and needing someone to lean on, rather than putting any kind of emphasis on how attractive she is, her having sex, or anything in that vein. Emotion over sexuality (or maybe I should say physical).


Ehh neither portrayal Is something I would like personally or morally lord knows we dont need anymore "women to be saved" and "women as sex objects" right know. But personally having played the route I would settle for her characterization there. Wont spoil it for you but you will find out its kind of neither.


i am looking at a youtuber who is doing a playthrough of heaven's feel at this time.
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Posted 5/28/15 , edited 5/28/15

megahobbit wrote:

Ehh neither portrayal Is something I would like personally or morally lord knows we dont need anymore "women to be saved" and "women as sex objects" right know. But personally having played the route I would settle for her characterization there. Wont spoil it for you but you will find out its kind of neither.


I'd honestly rather see her put in another vein as well, since one aspect that bugs me is how seemingly she does little to nothing to fight back and instead suffers through her situation. inb4 someone comes in to say how she couldn't do anything: I know the situation and I know how bad it is and yet I still would prefer her to do try to do something. I think there's a difference between the 'damsel in distress' type of saving and the emotional 'tortured soul needing to be told they aren't bad' type; that's what I meant at least partially in the saving her aspect.

By far I prefer Saber's styling which is pushing back on the idea of needing to be saved (fight alongside her? Okay. fight in front of her or in her place? Nope, you will only get her angry side) and fighting her own battles even if they are potentially losing ones. Maybe that's an aspect of why I hear that its harder to get into HF if you liked Fate and vice versa, but my storyline-ocd makes me want to see the story whatever it may turn out to be.
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Posted 5/28/15
Pretty much what people expect from Heaven Feels in a nutshell
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Posted 5/28/15 , edited 5/28/15

xCrimsonEX wrote:


megahobbit wrote:

Ehh neither portrayal Is something I would like personally or morally lord knows we dont need anymore "women to be saved" and "women as sex objects" right know. But personally having played the route I would settle for her characterization there. Wont spoil it for you but you will find out its kind of neither.


I'd honestly rather see her put in another vein as well, since one aspect that bugs me is how seemingly she does little to nothing to fight back and instead suffers through her situation. inb4 someone comes in to say how she couldn't do anything: I know the situation and I know how bad it is and yet I still would prefer her to do try to do something. I think there's a difference between the 'damsel in distress' type of saving and the emotional 'tortured soul needing to be told they aren't bad' type; that's what I meant at least partially in the saving her aspect.

By far I prefer Saber's styling which is pushing back on the idea of needing to be saved (fight alongside her? Okay. fight in front of her or in her place? Nope, you will only get her angry side) and fighting her own battles even if they are potentially losing ones. Maybe that's an aspect of why I hear that its harder to get into HF if you liked Fate and vice versa, but my storyline-ocd makes me want to see the story whatever it may turn out to be.


I know we had a big debate about this before, but it comes down to what we think is more important for her. Unfortunately due to the nature of her circumstances, the moment she fights back, she dies. I don't think revenge is worth death. I know you frame it as "fighting for her rights", but once she's dead, there's nothingness. No future, no nothing. You give Sakura little credit, after all here's a girl who went through so much, but still strives to find a normal life and still strives to live. If you don't think that's courageous, I don't know what is. . Her mental forittude is something, considering she can still function relatively normal. Child abuse victims,become so fucked up that they basically almost become like vegetables in some cases.

Like, its either death, or trying to move on and find happiness in other ways. There's nothing beautiful about dying a meaningless death. Sure, Shinji might die in a revenge scheme . But so what? That won't stop Zouken. Sakura dying in her revenge won't stop Zouken's plans significantly ,just delay them for a couple of decades at most. Sakura can't really kill Zouken either due to the nature of the crest worms.

And by the way you know what's interesting, near the end of HF, Shirou comes to the realization, that he's not the one saving Sakura, Sakura saved him (again due to the nature of his emptyness inside). And that, they do depend on each other, even if they aren't aware of it themselves. So sure, Sakura may not be physically fighting back, but she's fighting back emotionally, and mentally in a lot of different ways. Fights aren't always about killing the so called "Big Bad".

As for the Fate/HF thing, most people don't dislike the Fate route compared to HF. They just typically find HF much better. It usually has to do with how the Fate route is typically regarded as the most boring, most simple, and/or most shounen. Whereas HF and UBW are regarded as more complicated and most interesting. And that actually has nothing to do with Saber per se, considering typically Saber is everyone's best girl, yet Fate isn't their favorite route.


So I never saw her in the HF route as a Damsel in Distress. In think I found her rather courageous once I found about her backstory.
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