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Gamergate: is it really that big a deal?
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Posted 5/16/15 , edited 5/16/15

PsychedelicFear wrote:



Having slept with someone involved in the news story you're about to cover doesn't fly with normal jounalism, it shouldn't with gaming journalism; having a share in a company that you're reviewing wouldn't fly in normal journalism, it shouldn't in gaming journalism. When I was doing journalism I was taught that something as small as having a friend within a circle that you're covering is enough to bring the legitimacy of your piece to question.
Gaming journalism has a lot of different lights to it: Reviews, covering rumors, following a company's antics, a development team's progress — anything gaming related they are on top of. It's not simple 'advertising', having people compare it to such shows just how low the idea of it has fallen. That is why curators are now becoming the titans of the "covering" of gaming-related content, and journalism sites on the steady decline.
The free market is steadily reflecting, and showing the awareness of the public as to the kind of bullshit being fed to them.


EDIT: this originally made no sense, lemme clear it up.

So with the sleeping around deal, the problem with the line of thinking that says "it's unethical to write a piece about a game and sleep with its developer" is that the claim that sex affected a review of a non-traditional game in a sea of positive reviews in which an editor still decides what gets published in the end is lofty.

It is possible to write a positive review of a niche game and sleep with its developer. It calls the legitimacy into question, sure, but all the reviews have illegitimate aspects. When claiming that this was a conspiracy, a night in bed for a good review, the burden of proof falls on the accuser, and there are too many other potential factors to bother with. Why review that particular game? It had gained attention and positive reviews in the niche market. The developer also wants to sleep with me? I'm not going to pass that up.

The same complaints would be better lodged against Grant Imahara and Grant Imahara alone.


People trusted you, Grant.


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Posted 5/16/15

morechunch wrote:


PsychedelicFear wrote:



The free market is steadily reflecting, and showing the awareness of the public as to the kind of bullshit being fed to them.



The same complaints would be better lodged against Grant Imahara and Grant Imahara alone.

People trusted you, Grant.




I'm sure they are, or will be, as they should be lodged to anyone 'responsible' to bringing unbiased information to the public eye, as hard as it is to follow that responsibility.
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Posted 5/16/15 , edited 5/16/15

morechunch wrote:


PsychedelicFear wrote:



Having slept with someone involved in the news story you're about to cover doesn't fly with normal jounalism, it shouldn't with gaming journalism; having a share in a company that you're reviewing wouldn't fly in normal journalism, it shouldn't in gaming journalism. When I was doing journalism I was taught that something as small as having a friend within a circle that you're covering is enough to bring the legitimacy of your piece to question.
Gaming journalism has a lot of different lights to it: Reviews, covering rumors, following a company's antics, a development team's progress — anything gaming related they are on top of. It's not simple 'advertising', having people compare it to such shows just how low the idea of it has fallen. That is why curators are now becoming the titans of the "covering" of gaming-related content, and journalism sites on the steady decline.
The free market is steadily reflecting, and showing the awareness of the public as to the kind of bullshit being fed to them.


EDIT: this originally made no sense, lemme clear it up.

So with the sleeping around deal, the problem with the line of thinking that says "it's unethical to write a piece about a game and sleep with its developer" is that the claim that sex affected a review of a non-traditional game in a sea of positive reviews in which an editor still decides what gets published in the end is lofty.

It is possible to write a positive review of a niche game and sleep with its developer. It calls the legitimacy into question, sure, but all the reviews have illegitimate aspects. When claiming that this was a conspiracy, a night in bed for a good review, the burden of proof falls on the accuser, and there are too many other potential factors to bother with. Why review that particular game? It had gained attention and positive reviews in the niche market. The developer also wants to sleep with me? I'm not going to pass that up.

The same complaints would be better lodged against Grant Imahara and Grant Imahara alone.


People trusted you, Grant.




I was wondering when this was going to come up. Just to make this clear. Nathan Grayson, the person Zoe Quinn was involved with, never actually reviewed Depression Quest. He has written about her twice to my knowledge, once for Kotaku in which he mentioned her discussing a failed Game Jam, and another instance for Rock Paper Shotgun where he did indeed praise the game as a standout on Steam Greenlight along with Tangiers and Treasure Adventure World. I'm uncertain if either article took place before or after the relationship, but I really doubt anyone would trade their body for this relatively negligible splash of positive coverage, and furthermore the Kotaku article to my understanding doesn't even qualify for positive coverage as it merely mentioned her in relation to another event:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/08/admission-quest-valve-greenlights-50-more-games/#comments

http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346
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Posted 5/16/15
I look at gamergate as more shitty reporting by more shitty "reporters"

And it isn't just in gaming. Rolling Stone has multi-multi million dollar lawsuits forming because of the fake stories they've been shitting out. Maybe reporters that create bullshit stories or false reporting should have their first amendment rights taken away like a person who waves a gun around and attacks people.

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Posted 5/16/15
I have no idea what its about, but when the New York Times and the rest of the media is propping up those with blatant financial interest in lying, I am going to think maaaaaybe I should listen to the other folks as well before deciding if they are being lied about or not.
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Posted 5/16/15
#Murica. As far as I can see it, it is the result of many things in the US media. Overblown. Sexism does in fact exist but certain individuals, cough cough Anita Sarkeesian tries to grasp straws from every perceivable angle to try and claim man is terrible for this 'inconceivable' sexism in video games. Video games are not the cause of blatant sexism. Their are sexualized men and sexualized women, almost all characters are idealized. Most of us are alright with this but some individuals, i.e. Anita try and utilize this for their own personal gain, media attention and fame for 'freeing women.'

This whole thing is absolutely one of the stupidest things i've heard. Sure some of the populous are useless slime who launch death threats but that is more intertwined in their individual personality than in is in their love of games, undoubtedly.
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Posted 5/16/15
Not even sure what it's about. Don't care to learn. Sounds like a bunch of hogwash to me.
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Posted 5/16/15
I don't even know what this site is about, but this thread seems really pointless - a lot of whinging and a lot of quote replies achieving nothing at all but more debate!

but hey, this is the internet after all.
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Posted 5/17/15 , edited 5/17/15

ExiAHesP wrote:

I don't even know what this site is about, but this thread seems really pointless - a lot of whinging and a lot of quote replies achieving nothing at all but more debate!

but hey, this is the internet after all.


More debate = bad?

As long as it isn't spiteful any viewpoint is worth debating. I'll admit I've been an apologist for the terrible practices of an industry because I don't see it as real journalism, but I think my viewpoint is just as fair.

It was nice to see PsychadelicFear add their perspective, and unlike youtube and twitter, we were both able to make a joke out of it. Crunchyroll has something special in its atmosphere, and it's not just whinging.

That being said, Gamergate thrives on "it's real or it's not" debate, if we're going to stop it from assaulting our senses good information like what Vanguard posted needs to have a chance to enter the conversation. Whether I feel dumb or not isn't as important as some better information than what I had.

And now, thank goodness, I have it.
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Posted 5/17/15
I still don't know what the site , if there even is one, it seems it's just a hashtag movement....


Right. #Gamergate actually began in August as a pernicious attack on one female game developer, Zoe Quinn, and her sex life.



Surely the gaming community is not entirely made up of misogynists and angry idiots?



On October 14th, YouTuber Anita Sarkeesian tweeted that she canceled her talk at Utah State University when her requests were denied for pat downs or metal detectors after receiving death threats



On October 10th, an anonymous user on 8chan posted Wu’s address, phone number and email to the /gg/ (GamerGate) board. Several users responded denouncing the post and raising suspicions that it was part of a false flag attack (shown below, left). That evening, Wu tweeted that she was contacting the police after receiving threats from a Twitter account named “Death to Brianna”



Right, bad job guys.
Get rid of girl game developers, designers, journalists & the like
and demand an identity diversity of gamers!
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Posted 5/17/15

ExiAHesP wrote:

I still don't know what the site , if there even is one, it seems it's just a hashtag movement....


Right. #Gamergate actually began in August as a pernicious attack on one female game developer, Zoe Quinn, and her sex life.



Surely the gaming community is not entirely made up of misogynists and angry idiots?



On October 14th, YouTuber Anita Sarkeesian tweeted that she canceled her talk at Utah State University when her requests were denied for pat downs or metal detectors after receiving death threats



On October 10th, an anonymous user on 8chan posted Wu’s address, phone number and email to the /gg/ (GamerGate) board. Several users responded denouncing the post and raising suspicions that it was part of a false flag attack (shown below, left). That evening, Wu tweeted that she was contacting the police after receiving threats from a Twitter account named “Death to Brianna”



Right, bad job guys.
Get rid of girl game developers, designers, journalists & the like
and demand an identity diversity of gamers!


Hahaha, I don't disagree with you.

Look back at an earlier post of mine and you'll see that I say gamergaters are complaining about an industry that they are almost exclusively paying into.

It's easy for me, I played Donkey Kong 64 before I read the glowing review in Nintendo Power. Sometimes bad news is hard to break, and I personally can't stand the misogyny that has been dismissed, apologized for, and justified with a movement that is about "ethics" that were never intended to be there in the first place.

But you have to accept it as "strange things people do" and redirect it. It's not because every one of their arguments is wrong, it's that most of their arguments are wrong, and the ones that aren't wrong need to be sifted out.

Panning for gold, you still have to throw out rocks that are too big for the sieve by hand.
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Posted 5/17/15

But you have to accept it as "strange things people do" and redirect it. It's not because every one of their arguments is wrong, it's that most of their arguments are wrong, and the ones that aren't wrong need to be sifted out.


yeah I agree with this, strange things people do, people are strange, and strange people do strange things.
The point I don't condone is when they have that ego inflated person in the group who likes to take it a step higher, to try and convince or ruin someone's own opinion on suicide to the point where it seems like the only way out or solution to their woes

The one thing here, on the internet, it is so easy to tell someone to kill themself over a keyboard and not to their face, if people could imagine a group of people saying it over and over again in real life that's would it would be like, except with people holding up posters of image memes and playing sound.mp3s but instead most of the time the people saying it online don't know them personally and are apart of a group or agenda and wouldn't worry if they did die over it , but instead probably celebrate and type LOL
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Posted 5/17/15 , edited 5/17/15

ExiAHesP wrote:


But you have to accept it as "strange things people do" and redirect it. It's not because every one of their arguments is wrong, it's that most of their arguments are wrong, and the ones that aren't wrong need to be sifted out.


yeah I agree with this, strange things people do, people are strange, and strange people do strange things.
The point I don't condone is when they have that ego inflated person in the group who likes to take it a step higher, to try and convince or ruin someone's own opinion on suicide to the point where it seems like the only way out or solution to their woes

The one thing here, on the internet, it is so easy to tell someone to kill themself over a keyboard and not to their face, if people could imagine a group of people saying it over and over again in real life that's would it would be like, except with people holding up posters of image memes and playing sound.mp3s but instead most of the time the people saying it online don't know them personally and are apart of a group or agenda and wouldn't worry if they did die over it , but instead probably celebrate and type LOL


Well then stop, because killing yourself can be easy and fun, but it's the last thing you'll do. I have made an attempt, and nobody really believes me because I don't look or speak like the guy, but I made an attempt.

It involved a spent margarine tub, a piece of hose, and a helium tank, along with a couple rubber bands to make sure my mask was set. Nothing like doxxing, I'm too much of a hermit for that kind of self-expression.

If anything, it taught me that you can back out of any dead-set idea you have. Personally, I now only speak when I think I'm right, but I can't wait to be wrong. Part of my ego that I only considered after I failed my attempt.
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Posted 5/17/15

morechunch wrote:


ExiAHesP wrote:


But you have to accept it as "strange things people do" and redirect it. It's not because every one of their arguments is wrong, it's that most of their arguments are wrong, and the ones that aren't wrong need to be sifted out.


yeah I agree with this, strange things people do, people are strange, and strange people do strange things.
The point I don't condone is when they have that ego inflated person in the group who likes to take it a step higher, to try and convince or ruin someone's own opinion on suicide to the point where it seems like the only way out or solution to their woes

The one thing here, on the internet, it is so easy to tell someone to kill themself over a keyboard and not to their face, if people could imagine a group of people saying it over and over again in real life that's would it would be like, except with people holding up posters of image memes and playing sound.mp3s but instead most of the time the people saying it online don't know them personally and are apart of a group or agenda and wouldn't worry if they did die over it , but instead probably celebrate and type LOL


Well then stop, because killing yourself can be easy and fun, but it's the last thing you'll do. I have made an attempt, and nobody really believes me because I don't look or speak like the guy, but I made an attempt.

It involved a spent margarine tub, a piece of hose, and a helium tank, along with a couple rubber bands to make sure my mask was set. Nothing like doxxing, I'm too much of a hermit for that kind of self-expression.

If anything, it taught me that you can back out of any dead-set idea you have. Personally, I now only speak when I think I'm right, but I can't wait to be wrong.




I wasn't talking about myself, just the stories of the 12 year olds who suicide because of the things the internet and those other ones in the 16 to 29 age group too

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Posted 5/17/15

ExiAHesP wrote:


I wasn't talking about myself, just the stories of the 12 year olds who suicide because of the things the internet and those other ones in the 16 to 29 age group too



Which is what I mean by stop.

You'll find it in my earlier responses. Stop supporting crazy.

Sorry, eventually I forget I'm talking to people who never read what I said before. It's all very consistent.
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