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Post Reply College Education in America is a bubble economy.
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23 / M
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Posted 5/25/15

monhuntui wrote:

For me an education should be for free so everyone has an equal opportunity to contribute something to the society they live in. But that wouldn't serve the interests of the greedy who need ignorant and ultimately oppressed slaves to work on there factory lines and consume their products at the same time. Why do people consider education a commodity when really it should be a human right.


I'd like to answer your post because I believe you are sincere but misguided. Standard education is not seen as a commodity, it is seen as a human right. Higher education is seen as a privilege and not a human right. This is an important distinction to make. If college were free, then it would be like high school part 2. There'd be no incentive to work hard and many people would take it for granted, eating up taxpayer money as they fail the same classes or drop out of them over and over again. Then afterwards, employers would be looking at college students the same as they'd look at a high school graduate. Because since college would be free, it'd be much harder for the average person to distinguish his or herself for employers. It's unfair to the person who believes in hard work and dedication. College should be more affordable. But there's always charities and good scholarships available for those who can't afford it but work their butts off. Free isn't a good solution and an intellectually lazy conclusion in my opinion. I think that you are really being the greedy one by asking for a free ride to a college degree. And comparing that to oppressed slaves is a disservice to those who are truly oppressed and actual slaves, having their human rights such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, trampled on.
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30 / M / New York City
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Posted 5/25/15
A college degree is important just because it's required to get a good job in a career these days. When I say required I don't mean 100% of the time but it's the majority . Most likely you won't find a good job without one and if you do you probably won't make as much money. You can get a job is retail where you work horrible hours or get an apprenticeship in carpentry, HVAC, Auto motive but this is like a last ditch effort if you just want to find a job you probably won't like doing these in the long run. Especially something like carpentry (as an example) where you work hours, in bad conditions (weather, exposed by hazardous materials etc) sometimes those jobs aren't assured you can get laid off at any moment when the jobs slows down etc) this is the case in NYC.

I understand why many feel it's worthless to get a degree and that's because jobs are so hard to find and employer are pretty bias when it comes to who they hire. They only want the best but they have to realize that everyone has different potential.
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Posted 5/25/15
Going to college right now is a risk because of the high debt you'll be leaving with and the job market for millennials right now is pretty bad.
Posted 5/25/15
yeah. colleges have a poowey hold over us
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37 / M / New Zealand
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Posted 5/25/15

habit456 wrote:


monhuntui wrote:

For me an education should be for free so everyone has an equal opportunity to contribute something to the society they live in. But that wouldn't serve the interests of the greedy who need ignorant and ultimately oppressed slaves to work on there factory lines and consume their products at the same time. Why do people consider education a commodity when really it should be a human right.


I'd like to answer your post because I believe you are sincere but misguided. Standard education is not seen as a commodity, it is seen as a human right. Higher education is seen as a privilege and not a human right. This is an important distinction to make. If college were free, then it would be like high school part 2. There'd be no incentive to work hard and many people would take it for granted, eating up taxpayer money as they fail the same classes or drop out of them over and over again. Then afterwards, employers would be looking at college students the same as they'd look at a high school graduate. Because since college would be free, it'd be much harder for the average person to distinguish his or herself for employers. It's unfair to the person who believes in hard work and dedication. College should be more affordable. But there's always charities and good scholarships available for those who can't afford it but work their butts off. Free isn't a good solution and an intellectually lazy conclusion in my opinion. I think that you are really being the greedy one by asking for a free ride to a college degree. And comparing that to oppressed slaves is a disservice to those who are truly oppressed and actual slaves, having their human rights such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, trampled on.


Standard education is not what I was aiming my comment at if the barrier for it wasn't the expense. How is it a free ride to a college degree if you still have to meet the standards? What would be the incentive for people to do anything well or learn and contribute to a happy and healthy society? Is it still money? The lazy people of this world are the ones who rely on the ignorant who struggle to get their kids a higher education. They prey on that desperation for their own ends. We call them the 1%. I don't claim to provide a solution, just for people to be more aware of how the system is oppressing them and controlling how you think or really teaching you not to think. Just work. Work your ass off. All of you. The 1% needs you. But you don't need them. The only way things seem to work well for people is if they figure out how to manipulate money and I mean manipulate in the most derogatory way because it does involve the enslaving of people and their way of thinking.

People don't even consider a free education because we are always taught you have to earn your right to exist which makes a lot of society easier to control under this false notion. So my stance is, don't believe that education should be this hard to obtain since you want to learn something. You deserve to have less barriers put in your way.
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Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15
The US has many top performing universities at the global scale, and if you take the data in aggregate people make a good deal of money for having gone (though there are problems with taking that data in aggregate since doing so masks the value of individual degrees). Tertiary education also offers a range of positive externalities for society to enjoy as a direct consequence of having a better educated population, which is an essential part of spurring on innovation, competition, and entrepreneurship. All told the US offers high quality tertiary education, and further is fully aware that having wide access to tertiary education is an important part of maintaining a modern economy.

Here's the problem: protecting and expanding access to tertiary education is a rather substantial weak point of the US education system. Tuition rates are skyrocketing, interest rates on student loans are a crapshoot, states aren't consistently committed to keeping universities, grants, and scholarships funded, and the proportion of people who have to take out loans in order to attend is far too high. The economics of tertiary education in the US could be said to be on shaky ground, but not because of bureaucracy. It's a very complex problem with no single cause and no obvious solution.

For example, let's go back to tuition rates. Those rates aren't rising for the same reasons across all types of schools, and so there is no silver bullet for resolving the problem of ever-increasing tuition rates in the US. Tuition hikes can be driven by slashes in public education funding, reductions in funding in the form of privately supported endowments, spending on construction/maintenance of facilities and/or research programmes which has outpaced funding accessible from the previous two sources, or some combination of these. It's also possible for tuition hikes to be happening simply to generate greater profits, occurring in a climate where overall spending has actually declined and funding is still accessible from alternative sources. Whatever the reason the core problem remains the same: tuition rates are climbing in the US, and entirely too quickly. Since this problem is a significant underlying root of the problem of exceedingly high rates of student debt in the US I'd say it's a problem that simply cannot be ignored if one wishes to bring the situation to stability, and in fact that it ought to be among the foremost issues in everyone's mind.

Now, like I said before: there's no silver bullet to solve any of the problems with accessibility of tertiary education in the US. Tuition free tertiary education programmes funded by the government offer the benefit of spreading the cost of tuition out across society, and so provide far greater access and a more stable long-term funding model compared to models relying on individual payment for access. The catch is that such a programme would require either a substantial shift in public budget priorities, an increase in receipts, or both. While tertiary education would be free at the point of access the cost would still exist; it would simply have been socialized.

If that model is to be used for improving access (and I really think it should be), the biggest challenges would be ensuring that universities' spending doesn't outstrip the funding they can expect to collectively obtain from public and private sources to such an extent as to require constant price hikes (a challenge to be faced no matter what model of access is ultimately chosen), and further that the cost of the tuition free education programme doesn't become so cumbersome as to make its implementation and maintenance impossible. One way to at least partially overcome the latter challenge would be to implement a screening process for access to the programme, whether that be in the form of an evaluation of students' intended field of study, prior academic performance, performance on a standard university entrance exam, academic performance while at university, or some combination of these. As a bonus, these solutions would offer some relief to those concerned that the quality of US tertiary education would decline in response to greater access.
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38 / M / Kentucky
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Posted 5/25/15
As important as college is the industries in America are littered with college degree applicants. I have people under me who have multiple degrees and nothing really to show for it. So here's the most important part, you really have to know what your going to school for and what you plan to do with that education. Just graduating with a generic degree isn't going to help you that much in the current job market unless you have some proven drive through previous job positions.

The free college education thing is not that important to me. Almost everyone who wants a college education can get one, but it's up to them to make the most of that education.

In American I think we're like 2nd or 3rd in the most money spent to educate on a per student basis. So obviously we're doing something wrong. Standardized testing gets a bad rap, but its difficult to measure scholastic improvement on a school to school basis without it.
Posted 5/25/15
I feel seriously bad for anyone who chooses to forgo college because it's just making an impossible task even more impossible.

In laymen's terms: Shut up, suck it up, do your 4 year bid, come out jacked, and kill it.
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13 / F / California
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Posted 5/25/15
As someone who used to work at a college...

"Ya'll are FUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKEEEEEDDDD"

Most of the professors aren't worth piss in a boot, teaching or in real life. Holy shit are a great percent worthless people. Some are adjusted people, but most I swear enjoy smelling their own farts too much.



If you have a plan, go for it I guess. Or you could cut out the middle man and go work for starbucks right out of school AND not rack up debt and end up in the same place.
Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15
20 or 30 years ago I'd say go, you would get a great education, but now they don't tech you a dam thing and the degree that you get is worth less as tits on a bull. In 1929 college grads couldn't find work just like today. You have to have a skill or trade in order to survive in this shitty economy. Japans economy never recovered from the crash in the early 1990's and a lot of their kids go to college at home and abroad and end up going back home just to work at 7-Eleven. So tell everyone about the snake oil about Liberal Colleges and Universities. Hell MIT Obamacare professor Jonathan Gruber is a good example of the University corruption
Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15


Doesn't matter though. You need to go. It's not even a choice anymore. Unless your uncle has an in for you to lay floors til you're 60, you can't think you'll get a job that will be a career without a degree, not even luck can help.

It's 4 years for a bachelors degree, and the debt is a problem for everyone. I just don't get it. People just gotta do it.

Drink if you gotta cope, just gotta do it.
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25 / M / Fredericton, NB
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Posted 5/25/15

KusanagiSlayer wrote:

So i'm a recent college defector, and for the time being i'm at an impasse on deciding to go back, but my reasons for stopping (or is quitting the better word?) seemed to revolve on some level with my disgust at the institution and its bureaucracy.


College in the US is incredibly overpriced, and stupidly expensive, so on some level I could agree with you. I figure that it's all about bang for your buck. It is definitely worth it, if you have done your research. A decent reputable school and a field that is likely to have jobs in it when you graduate. Something like English literature for examples, oh that's nice, but will it likely get you anywhere, not really.

If you have the aptitude and desire, a field like engineering is usually a safe bet, business is good if you do it right. For either of them, people will probably look at you like a fool if you just simply complete the degree. Look for internships, co-op opportunities, etc. to give it true value. If you do all of that, the benefit will far exceed the cost. If those aren't your thing, and you don't see any strong field in which you wish to study, I agree that you start looking into trade school as some have mentioned.
Posted 5/25/15

AiYumega wrote:



Doesn't matter though. You need to go. It's not even a choice anymore. Unless your uncle has an in for you to lay floors til you're 60, you can't think you'll get a job that will be a career without a degree, not even luck can help.

It's 4 years for a bachelors degree, and the debt is a problem for everyone. I just don't get it. People just gotta do it.

Drink if you gotta cope, just gotta do it.


Well, you are defiantly one of the liberal assholes form New York. I graduated a long time ago from college, so piss off!
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42 / M / A Mile High
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Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15
Those who are successful are focused and driven to achieve their goals; college was simply one tool that they used along the way. There are many paths to success, and a lot of them have nothing to do with the university system.

Those dismissing working in the trades are simply elitists. There are truck drivers who make more money than attorneys I know, not to mention skilled trades-persons like plumbers or electricians. Hell, some of the best coders and IT specialists I have ever known never spent a day at the university.

And I find it hard to believe that there are still people who think that spending 4 years at the university is simply part of a right of passage. I guess if your parents are footing the bill, that could be legitimate. However, it is the epitome of idiocy to spend tens of thousands of dollars and saddle yourself with that debt while you "find your direction". If you don't know what you want to do, there are far better options for finding that out.

Anyway, to the original question. Yes, education is a bubble economy. However, it is hard to say when that bubble will actually pop. We have an education system that is designed from early on to feed every possible child into the university system regardless of interest or aptitude.

However, how long will we dismiss the skyrocketing cost of tuition with the false justification of it being the price of admission to economic stability? There was a statistic a few years back; there were 10 law-school grads for every job available. So eventually we will reach a tipping point where the cost of college is simply not worth the economic gamble except for a handful of extremely driven high achievers, or those whose family can afford to pay the bill.

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23 / M / Burbank CA
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Posted 5/25/15
well i wasn't expecting such an avid response for this (and I'm glad someone has called me out for being a spoiled brat which for all rights i suppose I am), but i will fill in some of the holes people have mentioned. To begin, I've taken a leave of absence about 3 classes away from graduating--indeed I used to be of the mind that college and university were a thing of praise--but in the end the reality of it all struck me and I left with at least some plans to return and finish but with lingering doubts in my heart. Why? For a complex variety of issues which move from a lack of faith in the educational system to disgust at the people who run universities, the presidents and deans who make more money for planning failures and putting out hot air than any politician regardless of political party can. On another level I got really depressed and disappointed in my peers, not for their goals but for the lengths they went to achieve them. Which i suppose could be read two ways, but for me college taught me about one thing, to think critically and yet everyone around me was preaching the necessity to in a way "keep calm and carry on" to just weather a storm of hoops and hot coals to jump through and walk over for a chance to do pretty much nothing for a few years? And the worst part was that they understood that last bit as well... I think we all know it but we keep singing the high praises or necessities of a broken system.

Because that's the next part of the problem of higher education, we view it as a mandatory vehicle to upward economic and social mobility but continue to 1. punish the poor (and seemingly increasingly the middle class) for the right to have this education and mobility, and 2. demand that education be of the few focuses others view as necessary in the world (business or engineering, what have you) such that education no longer is focused towards higher understanding or critically analyzing the world around us, but becomes an implicit part of the shitty system we all prop.

if the world around you becomes a zero sum game with no meaning, where everyone around you makes decisions which make no sense, wouldn't you decide to leave it as well?
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