First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
Post Reply College Education in America is a bubble economy.
82334 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
38 / M
Offline
Posted 5/25/15

atleap wrote:

I don't know how it is with higher education requirements in the US, but where I'm from, having a degree is pretty much required for any higher paid job(reason mostly being that there are so many applications for each job now that one without a degree gets dropped pretty fast).


Most higher paying jobs list varying degrees as a requirement, but many don't actually require it. It depends on what field the job is in. For instance, you're not going to become a doctor without a degree. But, you could get a high paid job in the technology or engineering fields without a degree. If my position were listed, it would include a bachelor's degree requirement and five years related experience. When got the position, I had "some college" (only 3 classes, really), and 3 years related experience. I've also gotten a job that listed an associates and two years related experience in a different field and I had only 1 week semi-related experience in that field. Job requirements are often more flexible that people realize. The bigger thing is how you present yourself. I may try to get a certification in the future, but I wouldn't go back to college. It was a huge waste of time and resources for me.
27275 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
39 / Inside your compu...
Offline
Posted 5/25/15
If your reason for not going is financial (e.g. can't pay for it) then I think I understand, but for any other reason it's your loss.

Going through college is just the price of admission for the vast majority of work-for-someone-else jobs out there.

Unless you're NOT going to work for someone else, you are going to college.
501 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
42 / M / A Mile High
Offline
Posted 5/25/15

KusanagiSlayer wrote:


I know where you are coming from. With the commoditization of higher education, we get to witness all the ugliness that comes along with the focus on the bottom line instead of on the purported mission of providing a high quality education. The worst for me is the whole business of hiring adjuncts for as many positions as the university can get away with. Not only are they ripping off their students, who are paying top dollar, by providing them with professors who are essentially "temps". But they are freezing out those who are driven to achieve and continue on in the field of education by essentially locking the door on tenure.

If you know what you want to do in the world, and that requires a university education; there are few options other than gritting your teeth and holding your nose, and just powering through till you reach your goal. Of course a lot of life comes down to that, so in a way the broken university system prepares you for life in a society that shares many of the same flaws.
15406 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Empire of Walker
Offline
Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15

pirththee wrote:

You can become the Governor of Wisconsin without a college degree and the Koch brothers money.


That election didn't have as wide of margin as you might think(All three of Scott Walker's Governer elections were decided by less than a 55/45 split). What you observed is politics in a state with 75,000 farms where half of the population lives in rural areas that have had a lot of industry sucked away.

The best advice I can give is get really good at math AND science or learn a trade. That's where you are going to find the best ratio of high salary to job security is while still be able to find job openings on a consistent basis. Another suggestion would be talk to career counselor, economist or someone who knows the market really well and try to figure out which fields will have the most openings with the best pay in 4-6 years.

As for the colleges being places where everyone is full of shit, that's probably an overstatement, but I definitely knew some Profs. and University staff that must have been smoking glue.
35035 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F
Offline
Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15

PapaNeko wrote:

I know where you are coming from. With the commoditization of higher education, we get to witness all the ugliness that comes along with the focus on the bottom line instead of on the purported mission of providing a high quality education. The worst for me is the whole business of hiring adjuncts for as many positions as the university can get away with. Not only are they ripping off their students, who are paying top dollar, by providing them with professors who are essentially "temps". But they are freezing out those who are driven to achieve and continue on in the field of education by essentially locking the door on tenure.


It's interesting you should mention that, because it brings me around to a broader view of the system.

I still stand by what I said before: on the whole the US offers competitive tertiary education in terms of educational quality. It's pretty tough to beat US professional schools. That should not, however, be taken to mean that the US tertiary education system is one whose problems are minimal and few. In addition to my points about tuition I could point to nonsense being pulled by publishing firms with "new" editions of textbooks that are two (even three) times the price of "old" editions which are not the least bit different (though some upper level science textbooks will inevitably turn over more quickly since students are reaching the front of research at that point), or administrations setting up fake "coursework" to keep athletes' GPAs artificially inflated so they can keep raking in money from ticket sales/concessions/merchandise/advertisers (money which isn't typically shared, by the by, with those athletes), or (as you've touched upon here) some professors who are teaching courses in name only and leaving the teaching work to undergrads or graduate students.

There's a lot of muck to pull out of the system, but I'm confident the people of the US could do it if they really wanted to.
501 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
42 / M / A Mile High
Offline
Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15

BlueOni wrote:
<snip>

There's a lot of muck to pull out of the system, but I'm confident the people of the US could do it if they really wanted to.


We seem to be on the same page on a lot of issues posted on here recently, we just differ on this final point. Call me eternally jaded, but I just don't see the people in the US (or anywhere for that matter) ever wanting to change the status quo.

edit: Of course those at the bottom want things to change, but those with no power aren't the ones who get to change the system. And those with the power have no reason to change anything, the system is already working in their favor.
49109 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 5/25/15

ghostwarrior88 wrote:


pirththee wrote:

You can become the Governor of Wisconsin without a college degree and the Koch brothers money.


That election didn't have as wide of margin as you might think(All three of Scott Walker's Governer elections were decided by less than a 55/45 split). What you observed is politics in a state with 75,000 farms where half of the population lives in rural areas that have had a lot of industry sucked away.

The best advice I can give is get really good at math AND science or learn a trade. That's where you are going to find the best ratio of high salary to job security is while still be able to find job openings on a consistent basis. Another suggestion would be talk to career counselor, economist or someone who knows the market really well and try to figure out which fields will have the most openings with the best pay in 4-6 years.

As for the colleges being places where everyone is full of shit, that's probably an overstatement, but I definitely knew some Profs. and University staff that must have been smoking glue.


I'm curious about where you obtained your figures at?I can only substantiate 345000 to 413000 people associated directly with agriculture in Wisconsin while Milwaukee alone has over 500000 residents granted there are some urban farms.The total population of Wisconsin is over 5.758 million.Several sources I've located talk about 10 % of the workforce.1,504,295 living in rural Wisconsin (USDA-ERS.Please advise.
3318 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
41 / M / NW
Offline
Posted 5/25/15
Looking back to when I just entered college to where I am now, I would say the first years are to cultivate a garden plot. To help give a base of credits, and a little time for those to decide what direction they want. There is also the idea to help you develop study skills for the higher classes. Professors of the upper division courses are not looking to take care of you, just to teach you. University and college was as one professor put it "To teach you how to teach yourself".
atleap 
4674 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / Way North
Online
Posted 5/25/15

ishe5555 wrote:


atleap wrote:

I don't know how it is with higher education requirements in the US, but where I'm from, having a degree is pretty much required for any higher paid job(reason mostly being that there are so many applications for each job now that one without a degree gets dropped pretty fast).


Most higher paying jobs list varying degrees as a requirement, but many don't actually require it. It depends on what field the job is in. For instance, you're not going to become a doctor without a degree. But, you could get a high paid job in the technology or engineering fields without a degree. If my position were listed, it would include a bachelor's degree requirement and five years related experience. When got the position, I had "some college" (only 3 classes, really), and 3 years related experience. I've also gotten a job that listed an associates and two years related experience in a different field and I had only 1 week semi-related experience in that field. Job requirements are often more flexible that people realize. The bigger thing is how you present yourself. I may try to get a certification in the future, but I wouldn't go back to college. It was a huge waste of time and resources for me.


Yeah, OK. That could never have happened where I am from. If a degree is listed as requirement then it is required, and in most cases they would also want you to have a higher degree or more than 5 years experience anyways, even if they didn't list it as a requirement. So if you've never taken a higher education, or at least done vocational classes in high school(carpentry, plumbing or electrician) you won't get a job that's better than being a check-out assistant at the grocery store. (at least that's how it is in the city)
Posted 5/25/15

And Im in it now. So who knows how it is right now better?
85 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
52 / M
Offline
Posted 5/25/15
last year I was looking through the want ads and saw a custodial job asking for the highest electrical engineer degree possible, for a $9hr job. I thought to myself wow someone expects another person to go into debt for a near min. wage job.
mrya21 
4387 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Ohio
Offline
Posted 5/25/15
While I personally had a great college experience, with a lot of really awesome profs and no debt, I can see how people could get bitter about it.

Today we are expected to go to college, even people who might not have wanted to or weren't suited for it. This trend comes at a horrible time, funding for public school has been cut causing tuition to go up (other factors are there as well, but this is really the biggest one) and we're in difficult economic times. So we have a lot of people paying for something they can't afford with the expectation that they will be able to pay it all off because of the amazing job the degree with get them. Obviously that is not happening. If I wasn't planning to go into medicine (which luckily there are plenty of jobs) I'd probably be mad too.
19563 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / NYC Metro Area
Offline
Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15
I am disgusted with the sham too, I got my degree and now I am finally benefiting, but when you see European countries and then you look at ours you start to realize how backwards we really are...
14562 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 5/25/15
Here here. Like a certain someone said "american college system is a business system not an education system."
15406 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Empire of Walker
Offline
Posted 5/25/15

pirththee wrote:


ghostwarrior88 wrote:


pirththee wrote:

You can become the Governor of Wisconsin without a college degree and the Koch brothers money.


That election didn't have as wide of margin as you might think(All three of Scott Walker's Governer elections were decided by less than a 55/45 split). What you observed is politics in a state with 75,000 farms where half of the population lives in rural areas that have had a lot of industry sucked away.

The best advice I can give is get really good at math AND science or learn a trade. That's where you are going to find the best ratio of high salary to job security is while still be able to find job openings on a consistent basis. Another suggestion would be talk to career counselor, economist or someone who knows the market really well and try to figure out which fields will have the most openings with the best pay in 4-6 years.

As for the colleges being places where everyone is full of shit, that's probably an overstatement, but I definitely knew some Profs. and University staff that must have been smoking glue.


I'm curious about where you obtained your figures at?I can only substantiate 345000 to 413000 people associated directly with agriculture in Wisconsin while Milwaukee alone has over 500000 residents granted there are some urban farms.The total population of Wisconsin is over 5.758 million.Several sources I've located talk about 10 % of the workforce.1,504,295 living in rural Wisconsin (USDA-ERS.Please advise.


76,850(2012 USDA, number has surely declined over the last several years) farms with what you posted as 345,000 to 413,000 people in agriculture would be I think 3-5 average per farm. I don't think that's a stretch unless my math is awful. Farms in this state are not like the big monsters you see in California, they are usually family owned or operated by a small regional company and most of them are dairy or vegetable growers and average about 159 acres. I wasn't speaking of the workforce but the population as a whole, and rural may not have been the best phrase I should have said small towns far removed from major population centers.

If you live outside 20 miles of Green Bay, Milwaukee or Madison, the state is very conservative.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.