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Post Reply College Education in America is a bubble economy.
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Posted 5/25/15
Some degrees seem like a cash in (game design lol) but they offer networking, motivation in the form of money (both losing it if you do poorly and earning it with scholarships and job placement) and an environment where you can try different things and bounce ideas off of other people. You can always get the knowledge elsewhere but if you are not the type who can self-teach then it has it's purpose.
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Posted 5/25/15

ghostwarrior88 wrote:


pirththee wrote:


ghostwarrior88 wrote:


pirththee wrote:

You can become the Governor of Wisconsin without a college degree and the Koch brothers money.


That election didn't have as wide of margin as you might think(All three of Scott Walker's Governer elections were decided by less than a 55/45 split). What you observed is politics in a state with 75,000 farms where half of the population lives in rural areas that have had a lot of industry sucked away.

The best advice I can give is get really good at math AND science or learn a trade. That's where you are going to find the best ratio of high salary to job security is while still be able to find job openings on a consistent basis. Another suggestion would be talk to career counselor, economist or someone who knows the market really well and try to figure out which fields will have the most openings with the best pay in 4-6 years.

As for the colleges being places where everyone is full of shit, that's probably an overstatement, but I definitely knew some Profs. and University staff that must have been smoking glue.


I'm curious about where you obtained your figures at?I can only substantiate 345000 to 413000 people associated directly with agriculture in Wisconsin while Milwaukee alone has over 500000 residents granted there are some urban farms.The total population of Wisconsin is over 5.758 million.Several sources I've located talk about 10 % of the workforce.1,504,295 living in rural Wisconsin (USDA-ERS.Please advise.


76,850(2012 USDA, number has surely declined over the last several years) farms with what you posted as 345,000 to 413,000 people in agriculture would be I think 3-5 average per farm. I don't think that's a stretch unless my math is awful. Farms in this state are not like the big monsters you see in California, they are usually family owned or operated by a small regional company and most of them are dairy or vegetable growers and average about 159 acres. I wasn't speaking of the workforce but the population as a whole, and rural may not have been the best phrase I should have said small towns far removed from major population centers.

If you live outside 20 miles of Green Bay, Milwaukee or Madison, the state is very conservative.


Yes, I think I read it's been declining at a historic projected rate of 11% every 5 years,and 99% of Wisconsin farms are family owned. It's strange to note that a state known for electing progressive legislators can also can elect a Senator Joe Mccarthy or a Governor Scott Walker.Eau Claire and Superior also have enclaves of less conservative elements usually associated with their campuses.Green Bay use to be a staunch bastion of conservative support, but immigration starting in 1981, a growing campus, industrial decline, and scandals in the Catholic church have changed the voting demographics.Some of my relatives from Northern Wisconsin make Governor Walker look like a liberal just left of Karl Marx.
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Posted 5/25/15

pirththee wrote:


ghostwarrior88 wrote:


pirththee wrote:


ghostwarrior88 wrote:


pirththee wrote:

You can become the Governor of Wisconsin without a college degree and the Koch brothers money.


That election didn't have as wide of margin as you might think(All three of Scott Walker's Governer elections were decided by less than a 55/45 split). What you observed is politics in a state with 75,000 farms where half of the population lives in rural areas that have had a lot of industry sucked away.

The best advice I can give is get really good at math AND science or learn a trade. That's where you are going to find the best ratio of high salary to job security is while still be able to find job openings on a consistent basis. Another suggestion would be talk to career counselor, economist or someone who knows the market really well and try to figure out which fields will have the most openings with the best pay in 4-6 years.

As for the colleges being places where everyone is full of shit, that's probably an overstatement, but I definitely knew some Profs. and University staff that must have been smoking glue.


I'm curious about where you obtained your figures at?I can only substantiate 345000 to 413000 people associated directly with agriculture in Wisconsin while Milwaukee alone has over 500000 residents granted there are some urban farms.The total population of Wisconsin is over 5.758 million.Several sources I've located talk about 10 % of the workforce.1,504,295 living in rural Wisconsin (USDA-ERS.Please advise.


76,850(2012 USDA, number has surely declined over the last several years) farms with what you posted as 345,000 to 413,000 people in agriculture would be I think 3-5 average per farm. I don't think that's a stretch unless my math is awful. Farms in this state are not like the big monsters you see in California, they are usually family owned or operated by a small regional company and most of them are dairy or vegetable growers and average about 159 acres. I wasn't speaking of the workforce but the population as a whole, and rural may not have been the best phrase I should have said small towns far removed from major population centers.

If you live outside 20 miles of Green Bay, Milwaukee or Madison, the state is very conservative.


Yes, I think I read it's been declining at a historic projected rate of 11% every 5 years,and 99% of Wisconsin farms are family owned. It's strange to note that a state known for electing progressive legislators can also can elect a Senator Joe Mccarthy or a Governor Scott Walker.Eau Claire and Superior also have enclaves of less conservative elements usually associated with their campuses.Green Bay use to be a staunch bastion of conservative support, but immigration starting in 1981, a growing campus, industrial decline, and scandals in the Catholic church have changed the voting demographics.Some of my relatives from Northern Wisconsin make Governor Walker look like a liberal just left of Karl Marx.


Any city in the state with a UW School is going to be a little more progressive, but not much. The one exception to this rule(outside of Milwaukee, GB and Mad-town) I can think of is Stevens Point where the University was founded in 1894 and is nearly as old as the city. As far as Joe the Tailgunner goes, during that era the majority of WI was very far removed from current events due to lack of media. There was also a ton of WW2 vets moving in because property values were just jaw dropping. I bought my house from the original owner and my 1850 square feet cost them $14,760 in 1966. Scott Walker got elected because he was very smart about how he campaigned and the democrats were not very savvy about who they picked to run against him, don't forget during the recall election in 2012 the dems put up same candidate(Tom Barrett) he beat in 2010. In 2014 they chose Mary Burke to run against him, another very unpopular candidate that even a lot a traditional democrats did not totally support.

Green Bay however is still a fairly conservative town, and the immigration you mentioned that began in 1981 was and still is mostly Hmong and Congolese refugees that tend not to vote much. The declining industry is a cause of conservative voting around here and are you forgetting all the paper mills in the region? They still employ a lot of people collectively and 6 of the top 10 employers in the Green bay area at least are Paper and Food manufacturers, 2 of them are health care systems, the two remaining are Wisconsin Public Service and Green Bay Area Public Schools. 7-9 of them are very conservative organizations.
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32 / M / Atlanta, GA
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Posted 5/25/15 , edited 5/25/15
To me, bubbles exist when people are at risk of fleeing a market or "cashing out quick" like when lot of people buy an asset who have no real intention of keeping or holding that asset. College is tough to see as a bubble in that sense. There's too much of a commitment involved in studying something.

If you think it's over-priced compared to what it's worth, there's an argument to be made there, but it's kind of important to do it with careful financial analysis and not hunches and guesses. Businesses for example still borrow when they need to to finance their projects and operations. Doesn't make them bubbles necessarily.
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Posted 5/26/15
People actually think college is not important? JEEEEEEZ

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Posted 5/26/15

crazykl45 wrote:

To me, bubbles exist when people are at risk of fleeing a market or "cashing out quick" like when lot of people buy an asset who have no real intention of keeping or holding that asset. College is tough to see as a bubble in that sense. There's too much of a commitment involved in studying something.

If you think it's over-priced compared to what it's worth, there's an argument to be made there, but it's kind of important to do it with careful financial analysis and not hunches and guesses. Businesses for example still borrow when they need to to finance their projects and operations. Doesn't make them bubbles necessarily.


I think you have some valid points here, and college is not a bubble in the sense that we are in an immediate risk of people fleeing the market, nor does it cash out quick. However, bubbles still exist where there is an overconfidence in a market, examples include the dot com crash, the housing market crash which caused the 2008 Great Recession, and also the Japanese economic collapse in the late 80's early 90s (don't have the date off hand). Although we have mixed degrees of confidence in the American University system, the general consensus I believe points towards its necessity (and for those who claim the case of skilled trade as an alternative I think overlook that those families more often than not push their children back in the direction of University, with exceptions of course). I think somehow on some level we have internalized upward socioeconomic mobility to higher education, which applies particularly to the points where higher education grants access to forms of socioeconomic capital (art appreciation and other forms of aesthetic knowledge) which are harder to access without the education often times necessary for utilizing socioeconomic capital for upward mobility. In this case, we mirror in some ways the situation in Japan where university education was the building block for stable socioeconomic class.
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Posted 5/26/15

ghostwarrior88 wrote:


pirththee wrote:


ghostwarrior88 wrote:


pirththee wrote:


ghostwarrior88 wrote:


pirththee wrote:

You can become the Governor of Wisconsin without a college degree and the Koch brothers money.


That election didn't have as wide of margin as you might think(All three of Scott Walker's Governer elections were decided by less than a 55/45 split). What you observed is politics in a state with 75,000 farms where half of the population lives in rural areas that have had a lot of industry sucked away.

The best advice I can give is get really good at math AND science or learn a trade. That's where you are going to find the best ratio of high salary to job security is while still be able to find job openings on a consistent basis. Another suggestion would be talk to career counselor, economist or someone who knows the market really well and try to figure out which fields will have the most openings with the best pay in 4-6 years.

As for the colleges being places where everyone is full of shit, that's probably an overstatement, but I definitely knew some Profs. and University staff that must have been smoking glue.


I'm curious about where you obtained your figures at?I can only substantiate 345000 to 413000 people associated directly with agriculture in Wisconsin while Milwaukee alone has over 500000 residents granted there are some urban farms.The total population of Wisconsin is over 5.758 million.Several sources I've located talk about 10 % of the workforce.1,504,295 living in rural Wisconsin (USDA-ERS.Please advise.


76,850(2012 USDA, number has surely declined over the last several years) farms with what you posted as 345,000 to 413,000 people in agriculture would be I think 3-5 average per farm. I don't think that's a stretch unless my math is awful. Farms in this state are not like the big monsters you see in California, they are usually family owned or operated by a small regional company and most of them are dairy or vegetable growers and average about 159 acres. I wasn't speaking of the workforce but the population as a whole, and rural may not have been the best phrase I should have said small towns far removed from major population centers.

If you live outside 20 miles of Green Bay, Milwaukee or Madison, the state is very conservative.


Yes, I think I read it's been declining at a historic projected rate of 11% every 5 years,and 99% of Wisconsin farms are family owned. It's strange to note that a state known for electing progressive legislators can also can elect a Senator Joe Mccarthy or a Governor Scott Walker.Eau Claire and Superior also have enclaves of less conservative elements usually associated with their campuses.Green Bay use to be a staunch bastion of conservative support, but immigration starting in 1981, a growing campus, industrial decline, and scandals in the Catholic church have changed the voting demographics.Some of my relatives from Northern Wisconsin make Governor Walker look like a liberal just left of Karl Marx.


Any city in the state with a UW School is going to be a little more progressive, but not much. The one exception to this rule(outside of Milwaukee, GB and Mad-town) I can think of is Stevens Point where the University was founded in 1894 and is nearly as old as the city. As far as Joe the Tailgunner goes, during that era the majority of WI was very far removed from current events due to lack of media. There was also a ton of WW2 vets moving in because property values were just jaw dropping. I bought my house from the original owner and my 1850 square feet cost them $14,760 in 1966. Scott Walker got elected because he was very smart about how he campaigned and the democrats were not very savvy about who they picked to run against him, don't forget during the recall election in 2012 the dems put up same candidate(Tom Barrett) he beat in 2010. In 2014 they chose Mary Burke to run against him, another very unpopular candidate that even a lot a traditional democrats did not totally support.

Green Bay however is still a fairly conservative town, and the immigration you mentioned that began in 1981 was and still is mostly Hmong and Congolese refugees that tend not to vote much. The declining industry is a cause of conservative voting around here and are you forgetting all the paper mills in the region? They still employ a lot of people collectively and 6 of the top 10 employers in the Green bay area at least are Paper and Food manufacturers, 2 of them are health care systems, the two remaining are Wisconsin Public Service and Green Bay Area Public Schools. 7-9 of them are very conservative organizations.


No question about the Democratic meltdown.I've lived in Green Bay for over 35 years and I've never met any Congolese. ( Not to mention Packer players).I guess I have to get out more.I also work with the President of the Hmong Association in Green Bay and that organization is still trying to improve voter turnout. It might be added that the 2nd generation of Hmong heritage are much more politically active.Service sector jobs are the largest employers in Green Bay .Insurance companies and Health care. Green Bay has an annual report that usually appears in the Press Gazette.There are still paper mill jobs but since the 90's many pay less and aren't nearly as secure as they once were.I use to work for one.Many employees of the food industry are fairly recent residents,( last 25 years and less), to the area and have changed the voting dynamics in the city.If you lived in Green Bay in 1970 and then walked down the street in 2015 you'd be amazed and encouraged by the ethnic diversity that has taken place.I am.
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32 / M / Atlanta, GA
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Posted 5/26/15 , edited 5/26/15

KusanagiSlayer wrote:

I think you have some valid points here, and college is not a bubble in the sense that we are in an immediate risk of people fleeing the market, nor does it cash out quick. However, bubbles still exist where there is an overconfidence in a market, examples include the dot com crash, the housing market crash which caused the 2008 Great Recession, and also the Japanese economic collapse in the late 80's early 90s (don't have the date off hand). Although we have mixed degrees of confidence in the American University system, the general consensus I believe points towards its necessity (and for those who claim the case of skilled trade as an alternative I think overlook that those families more often than not push their children back in the direction of University, with exceptions of course). I think somehow on some level we have internalized upward socioeconomic mobility to higher education, which applies particularly to the points where higher education grants access to forms of socioeconomic capital (art appreciation and other forms of aesthetic knowledge) which are harder to access without the education often times necessary for utilizing socioeconomic capital for upward mobility. In this case, we mirror in some ways the situation in Japan where university education was the building block for stable socioeconomic class.

You are right. There's basically a broad consensus that college is necessary to maintain the american middle class lifestyle and I can see that confidence in university wavering the more tuition increases. I just don't see the bubble "bursting" the same way as in something like the housing crisis because there's just not the same mechanisms in this market.

I think given enough time, we'll probably see technology send a jolt into this industry as we've seen in other industries. Information is something that can be disseminated now to vast audiences using tech so that will probably continue here. And it'll help bring prices down given enough time. The only thing to overcome there will be some of the social stigma surrounding online programs.
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