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Post Reply The Gender Thing.
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21 / M / Shortbread Land
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Posted 5/27/15 , edited 5/27/15
Well technically there is a difference between sex and gender. Sex refers to your biological make-up such as your sexual organs whilst gender describes the sex's motifs that are dictated by society. However, when people try to argue all this "non-binary" stuff I just have to call bs. Ultimately though I don't give a shit, choose you who want to be and never be shameful of it.
Bavalt 
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28 / M / Canada
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Posted 5/27/15
I accept gender as a sociological phenomenon, but not as an intrinsic part of the human condition, so I think my line of thinking is probably similar to the OP's. I've waxed philosophical on this in a couple other topics, so I'll just toss the abridged version here: if you want to identify as a particular gender, go to town, but don't expect me to do the same. In my mind, there's nothing particularly deep or insightful about the gender binary (or the various permutations thereof). Gender is a shortcut that people use to fool themselves into thinking they know more about a person than they do. (To be fair, it's far from the only one.) It's still around because society (and to a lesser extent, biology) reinforces it, so a lot of the time, it works. But there are outliers, as we are being made to recognize with the trans community making their voices heard. My problem is that the widely accepted solution is to shoehorn this new data into the categories we have, rather than considering that those categories themselves might be inherently inadequate.

So yeah, gender exists, but it doesn't need to, and I personally think it shouldn't.
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24 / F / The moon
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Posted 5/27/15
I think I know where you're getting at. It's like I asked a question on yahoo on how do you feel, as a parent, if they see their son playing with barbie dolls? I asked the question more in detail, but that was the main point. As a woman now, I was a tomboy growing up. I grew up being encourage to be a strong little girl and speak my mind. Times change as then girls grew up to be wives, but today's world we grew up to be not only wives to man or woman, but to become something. I had thought now and again how unfair it is for boys to just stick with boy toys and stick to the color that isn't girlish, whereas, girls can play with whatever they want and wear whatever they want. Things like that are an issue to me. I'm not a parent yet, but I wouldn't mind if my son played with barbie dolls. I would worry as he might stick to an ideal of what a woman should look like. :/ Actually, speaking about biology, humans are female xx before staying xx or changing to xy. I always thought the same until I looked that up. How I feel, people should be happy for what they have, but if not then come up with a solution to be happy even if it goes far as a sex change operation.
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Posted 5/27/15 , edited 5/27/15

IShouldBeStudyingHe's comparing people that religiously identify themselves as some random made up religion to people that sexually identify themselves as some random made up sex


And insist that everyone in the whole wide world play along with their imagination, or else they'll get angry.

(And there was a Jedi Freedom movement in some cities, including in Australia--
Which could, like the sexual metaphor, be compared to some clubs now forming their own actual Hogwarts Quidditch teams, in a new variation where the teams run about the fields playing horsey on their broomsticks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPnnxc1Dfm0
It's fun to pretend, but there are problems involved with doing it in public. And at least the Quidditch team admitted they were pretending.)
Sogno- 
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Posted 5/27/15
my view is that tumblr is a great place for anime gifs and edits and general fandom stuff. the rest of it is stupid
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19 / M / Future Gadget Lab...
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Posted 5/27/15 , edited 5/27/15



DISCLAIMER: This is not a rant. I'm just trying to respond objectively and honestly.

Just to clarify: Gender identification and gender roles are two completely different things. Gender identification is whether or not someone is male or female biologically and recognizes themselves as that biological gender (even if they had a sex change); gender roles are the archetypes for men and women created by society for how men and women should behave -- for example: men should be strong and distant and women should be compassionate and emotional. Someone can be male biologically, but they might not agree with male gender roles.


Also, one's sexual orientation has no bearing on their gender identification. Just because your gay doesn't mean you are flexible with what your gender identity truly is on a biological sense. That really only applies to the transgender community, in which case if they had a sex change, then they are that gender biologically.


In truth, though, the fight against gender roles is more associated with the feminist movement, if anything, due to people such as single moms who don't have a 'father figure' and hence must fulfill the role of both parents on her own. This has also to do with gender equality, especially when women began trying to work in the workforce and were discriminated against because of gender roles, which in this case meant that men were better suited for work and women nurturing

True, the gay and lesbian community tend to be more open about gender roles, but that's because they do not feel the pressure to fulfill a strict mother or father role since they are a same sex couple, after all all gay or lesbian parents want to do is be good to each other and be good parents, just like the single mom.




As for the entitlement argument, I don't really understand what you're trying to prove, but from my understanding, true equality will never come until everybody is treated equally without bias towards their duties in society: for example, women should get equal pay, but they also should be drafted into the military just like men are. Only when everyone shares the same privileges and burdens will equality come.
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Posted 5/27/15
It doesn't have to be a big deal. But people make it that way. It's really not as complex, either.

I'm trans. I was assigned as a female. Then I thought I was male. But here I am, existing both within and beyond the gender-binary. No big deal.
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Posted 5/28/15 , edited 5/28/15

galaxiias wrote:

It doesn't have to be a big deal. But people make it that way. It's really not as complex, either.

I'm trans. I was assigned as a female. Then I thought I was male. But here I am, existing both within and beyond the gender-binary. No big deal.


Good for you. I mean honestly, I feel better about the state of the world.

I've been confused about the name since I supported the gay-straight alliance as a straight person, which turned into LGT, which turned into LGBT, which became LGBTQ, which I'm still totally ok with, but at some point the labeling is the problem in and of itself.

LGTBQFPB&J who cares, if it becomes politically correct do we really need to add a letter to the movement? And the order of the letters, obviously it's meant to roll off the tongue, but who was underrepresented by a gay-straight alliance? Being on the straight end, this is only frustration about how it has made it harder for me to be in support and not be LGBTQ, so maybe work an S in there at some point? NO, I'm fine and I will be fine and I'm fully represented, just some people are mistaken in my support thinking I must be gay, not having a steady girl at my age.

I love dirt. Camping is my bag, a girl who is afraid of getting dirty isn't my girl. Consequently, I can't find a romantic interest that is into a closed relationship, but I still support the LGBTQ community. This has got some people (my parents especially) confused about my sexuality as a straight man, believe it or not. Individuality is important and unique to each person, but the same problems face the LBGTQ community as before it was LGBTQ. I don't care what it's called, but I can say a lot of people only care what it's called.
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Posted 5/28/15

morechunch wrote:

Good for you. I mean honestly, I feel better about the state of the world.

I've been confused about the name since I supported the gay-straight alliance as a straight person, which turned into LGT, which turned into LGBT, which became LGBTQ, which I'm still totally ok with, but at some point the labeling is the problem in and of itself.

LGTBQFPB&J who cares, if it becomes politically correct do we really need to add a letter to the movement? And the order of the letters, obviously it's meant to roll off the tongue, but who was underrepresented by a gay-straight alliance? Being on the straight end, this is only frustration about how it has made it harder for me to be in support and not be LGBTQ, so maybe work an S in there at some point? NO, I'm fine and I will be fine and I'm fully represented, just some people are mistaken in my support thinking I must be gay, not having a steady girl at my age.

I love dirt. Camping is my bag, a girl who is afraid of getting dirty isn't my girl. Consequently, I can't find a romantic interest that is into a closed relationship, but I still support the LGBTQ community. This has got some people (my parents especially) confused about my sexuality as a straight man, believe it or not. Individuality is important and unique to each person, but the same problems face the LBGTQ community as before it was LGBTQ. I don't care what it's called, but I can say a lot of people only care what it's called.


Thank you!

Yeah, the labeling in it self is very debatable. I say it's perfectly fine for general terminology, but I can see how it can get overwhelming. But thank god for umbrella terms. I LIVE for umbrella terms. I could say I was a genderqueer pansexual asexual person (a bit of a mouthful, if I do say so myself) but I can just narrow it down to trans queer person. All though, I think the use of "queer" is still considered a slur, so I might have to becareful with that one. It might just be a slur unless used in a derogatory form. I'm still being careful with it; the last thing I want to do is hurt someone.

As long as you're comfortable in your sexuality, that's all that matters, really. That's what I've learned from discovering these parts of myself.
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Posted 5/28/15 , edited 5/28/15

morechunch LGTBQFPB&J who cares, if it becomes politically correct do we really need to add a letter to the movement? And the order of the letters, obviously it's meant to roll off the tongue, but who was underrepresented by a gay-straight alliance?


Well, they feel that one or two terms just doesn't express the unique individual needs faced by Lesbian, Gay, Trans, Abstention, Bi, Co-Dependent,1st, 2nd and 3rd Generation, Ex-Straight, Young, Zero-Tolerance, Passive/Dominating, and Queer--
So, naturally, those within the social group who understand the particular problems want to be inclusive of ALL those in the LGTABC123XYZPDQ community.

(A group so hanging their entire identity on the need to be "different", they can't even be comfortable for five minutes being considered the same as each other. )
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Posted 5/28/15

Ejanss wrote:


morechunch LGTBQFPB&J who cares, if it becomes politically correct do we really need to add a letter to the movement? And the order of the letters, obviously it's meant to roll off the tongue, but who was underrepresented by a gay-straight alliance?


Well, they feel that one or two terms just doesn't express the unique individual needs faced by Lesbian, Gay, Trans, Abstention, Bi, Co-Dependent,1st, 2nd and 3rd Generation, Ex-Straight, Young, Zero-Tolerance, Passive/Dominating, and Queer--
So, naturally, those within the social group who understand the particular problems want to be inclusive of ALL those in the LGTABC123XYZPDQ community.

(A group so hanging their entire identity on the need to be "different", they can't even be comfortable for five minutes being considered the same as each other. )


Reminds me when Facebook said they were adding like 50+ "genders" lol. I just shook my head at that nonsense.
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19 / M / United States
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Posted 5/29/15
I try to ignore Gender problems, too much of a headache for me.
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49 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 5/29/15 , edited 5/29/15
I just don't want to be called 'sir'

Not having some self appointed potty policeman question me about my junk before I use the washroom to find a private place to pee would be nice too.

Posted 5/29/15 , edited 5/29/15
some people don't feel like they are either gender. and i respect that decision.

just like not everyone is attracted to other humans. some ppl are attracted to objects. you have to put yourself in their shoes, jsut because you are born normal doesn't mean everyone is born normal.
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Posted 6/2/15 , edited 6/2/15

galaxiias wrote:


morechunch wrote:

Good for you. I mean honestly, I feel better about the state of the world.

I've been confused about the name since I supported the gay-straight alliance as a straight person, which turned into LGT, which turned into LGBT, which became LGBTQ, which I'm still totally ok with, but at some point the labeling is the problem in and of itself.

LGTBQFPB&J who cares, if it becomes politically correct do we really need to add a letter to the movement? And the order of the letters, obviously it's meant to roll off the tongue, but who was underrepresented by a gay-straight alliance? Being on the straight end, this is only frustration about how it has made it harder for me to be in support and not be LGBTQ, so maybe work an S in there at some point? NO, I'm fine and I will be fine and I'm fully represented, just some people are mistaken in my support thinking I must be gay, not having a steady girl at my age.

I love dirt. Camping is my bag, a girl who is afraid of getting dirty isn't my girl. Consequently, I can't find a romantic interest that is into a closed relationship, but I still support the LGBTQ community. This has got some people (my parents especially) confused about my sexuality as a straight man, believe it or not. Individuality is important and unique to each person, but the same problems face the LBGTQ community as before it was LGBTQ. I don't care what it's called, but I can say a lot of people only care what it's called.


Thank you!

Yeah, the labeling in it self is very debatable. I say it's perfectly fine for general terminology, but I can see how it can get overwhelming. But thank god for umbrella terms. I LIVE for umbrella terms. I could say I was a genderqueer pansexual asexual person (a bit of a mouthful, if I do say so myself) but I can just narrow it down to trans queer person. All though, I think the use of "queer" is still considered a slur, so I might have to becareful with that one. It might just be a slur unless used in a derogatory form. I'm still being careful with it; the last thing I want to do is hurt someone.

As long as you're comfortable in your sexuality, that's all that matters, really. That's what I've learned from discovering these parts of myself.


Again, very glad for you being comfortable in your sexuality, My statement has made me cringe, thinking I said problem "in and of itself" to describe a problem that really isn't self-contained.. It was self-contained as my problem.

I would like to take back what I said in terms of labeling becoming "the" problem as "my" problem. And my most recent relationship was with a girl who volunteered at Planned Parenthood and identified as queer, and in the throes of disconnection with this girl that I really liked, I tried to volunteer too but it just wasn't me. not ideologically, but interpersonally. The Q is the most confusing part to be sure.

Thank you for not lashing back against my confusion. Political correctness doesn't quite reach my vocabulary as I'm rarely trying to be political. You can't be anti-PC when nobody cares what you say. Well read.
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