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Post Reply Shiki vs Shiro
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Posted 5/6/08
well i know nanaya shiki is the ultimate killing machine of man kind but remember he need to be in range to kill his opponent but remember (just as sasukesrg said) that Archer is Shirou and with his ability of Eyes of Mind he can win for sure + shirou is also great at archery and as tempest324 said AVALON would be a great problem for Shiki...
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Posted 3/12/09 , edited 3/12/09
Can i have the doujinshi link to the author and artist of it, i need to prove to an idiot freind that the doujin isn't official lol. BTW you have some good points, but that doujin is pretty bad logic wise, i mean technically UBW should be like air, as in breathing air, to Shiki, i mean Shiki can see air, but he doesn't see death lines in oxygen, but it still exists... For me the UBW is essentially like that. Also the guy who brought up about the poison had a good point, Shiki would easily go blind from trying to concentrate to destroy UBW.

Another point is... You could argue that all Shirou creates technically doesn't exist, because he brought them into existence, they shouldn't have death lines at all.

For me Shirou would easily win. Shiki has to many flaws.
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Posted 3/12/09
i believe shiki wins
if he can see it, he can kill it be it swords, UBW or what ever and btw shiro might be archer but... don't go on giving him archer's abilities.... shiro cant do all of what archer does.
shiki could just kill shiro and end his UBW but for some reason he spared him lol.

the only way shiro would win is if he could spam his swords onto shiki, but then again shiro can't do that fast enough.

last point shiki can get his eyes exhausted but shiro also gets his magical circuit exhausted too so that argument is invalid
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Posted 3/12/09

sand_storm wrote:

i believe shiki wins
if he can see it, he can kill it be it swords, UBW or what ever and btw shiro might be archer but... don't go on giving him archer's abilities.... shiro cant do all of what archer does.
shiki could just kill shiro and end his UBW but for some reason he spared him lol.

the only way shiro would win is if he could spam his swords onto shiki, but then again shiro can't do that fast enough.

last point shiki can get his eyes exhausted but shiro also gets his magical circuit exhausted too so that argument is invalid


Shiki can look at air all the time, that doesn't mean he can see it, whos to say you can ever truly see a reality marble if it doesn't exist in the first place. You are missing another point to, shirou could become LIKE archer with enough training eventually anyway.
Shiki would never beat shirou lol. If shirou is borrwing from rin, his circuit would be no problem as well.

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Posted 3/12/09

Xblacker wrote:


sand_storm wrote:

i believe shiki wins
if he can see it, he can kill it be it swords, UBW or what ever and btw shiro might be archer but... don't go on giving him archer's abilities.... shiro cant do all of what archer does.
shiki could just kill shiro and end his UBW but for some reason he spared him lol.

the only way shiro would win is if he could spam his swords onto shiki, but then again shiro can't do that fast enough.

last point shiki can get his eyes exhausted but shiro also gets his magical circuit exhausted too so that argument is invalid


Shiki can look at air all the time, that doesn't mean he can see it, whos to say you can ever truly see a reality marble if it doesn't exist in the first place. You are missing another point to, shirou could become LIKE archer with enough training eventually anyway.
Shiki would never beat shirou lol. If shirou is borrwing from rin, his circuit would be no problem as well.



OBJECTION!



first of all you can see a reality marble... i can see it
second, if you speak about the future then that is invalid because you can't be sure what type moon plans
third you mean shiro alone fails? lol your saying he can't put up a fight on his own...
still he is using his magic circuit anyways even if its taking from rin i presume it runs through him

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Posted 3/12/09

sand_storm wrote:


Xblacker wrote:


sand_storm wrote:

i believe shiki wins
if he can see it, he can kill it be it swords, UBW or what ever and btw shiro might be archer but... don't go on giving him archer's abilities.... shiro cant do all of what archer does.
shiki could just kill shiro and end his UBW but for some reason he spared him lol.

the only way shiro would win is if he could spam his swords onto shiki, but then again shiro can't do that fast enough.

last point shiki can get his eyes exhausted but shiro also gets his magical circuit exhausted too so that argument is invalid


Shiki can look at air all the time, that doesn't mean he can see it, whos to say you can ever truly see a reality marble if it doesn't exist in the first place. You are missing another point to, shirou could become LIKE archer with enough training eventually anyway.
Shiki would never beat shirou lol. If shirou is borrwing from rin, his circuit would be no problem as well.



OBJECTION!



first of all you can see a reality marble... i can see it
second, if you speak about the future then that is invalid because you can't be sure what type moon plans
third you mean shiro alone fails? lol your saying he can't put up a fight on his own...
still he is using his magic circuit anyways even if its taking from rin i presume it runs through him



All flawed... You can't see a reality marble, you just think you can see a reality marble. None knows what a reality marble officially is, it's a phenomenon in the typemoon universe essentially, for example with Shirou's we see a world full of weapons and gears/cogs. That is just what we see with out eyes, thats not to say it exists though that is my point. A reality marble is like a seperate dimension entirely, it is not simply a magical spell. Shiki can't rip space and time in our original universe (back on earth) Destroying a reality marble would be like ripping a new dimension back on earth... For anyone unclear, think of the book, The subtle knife by Phillip Pullman, but as far as i know, or anyone else does Shiki does not have the ability to split dimensions, we're talking impossibilties in the tpemoon universe.

You took my context of future wrong as well, my point was Rin for example says to Shirou at the end of UBW, that with enough training he could be as good as Archer, in much less the time, because he has Archer's memories imprinted now, so already has a rough idea.

Of course he can put up a fight on his own, he is the one using the magic not Rin, she is just like something that passes on electricity... Don't forget that's essentially the same as Nanaya Shiki though, so by your logic, a fair fight would be normal Shiki vs Shirou, in which case Shiki would be at an ultimate disadvantage, cos he sucks balls without Nanaya lol.

Another point to that, is with enough training Shirous magic circuit would be alot larger anyway... so... yeah.
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Posted 3/12/09

Xblacker wrote:


sand_storm wrote:


Xblacker wrote:


sand_storm wrote:

i believe shiki wins
if he can see it, he can kill it be it swords, UBW or what ever and btw shiro might be archer but... don't go on giving him archer's abilities.... shiro cant do all of what archer does.
shiki could just kill shiro and end his UBW but for some reason he spared him lol.

the only way shiro would win is if he could spam his swords onto shiki, but then again shiro can't do that fast enough.

last point shiki can get his eyes exhausted but shiro also gets his magical circuit exhausted too so that argument is invalid


Shiki can look at air all the time, that doesn't mean he can see it, whos to say you can ever truly see a reality marble if it doesn't exist in the first place. You are missing another point to, shirou could become LIKE archer with enough training eventually anyway.
Shiki would never beat shirou lol. If shirou is borrwing from rin, his circuit would be no problem as well.



OBJECTION!



first of all you can see a reality marble... i can see it
second, if you speak about the future then that is invalid because you can't be sure what type moon plans
third you mean shiro alone fails? lol your saying he can't put up a fight on his own...
still he is using his magic circuit anyways even if its taking from rin i presume it runs through him



All flawed... You can't see a reality marble, you just think you can see a reality marble. None knows what a reality marble officially is, it's a phenomenon in the typemoon universe essentially, for example with Shirou's we see a world full of weapons and gears/cogs. That is just what we see with out eyes, thats not to say it exists though that is my point. A reality marble is like a seperate dimension entirely, it is not simply a magical spell. Shiki can't rip space and time in our original universe (back on earth) Destroying a reality marble would be like ripping a new dimension back on earth... For anyone unclear, think of the book, The subtle knife by Phillip Pullman, but as far as i know, or anyone else does Shiki does not have the ability to split dimensions, we're talking impossibilties in the tpemoon universe.

You took my context of future wrong as well, my point was Rin for example says to Shirou at the end of UBW, that with enough training he could be as good as Archer, in much less the time, because he has Archer's memories imprinted now, so already has a rough idea.

Of course he can put up a fight on his own, he is the one using the magic not Rin, she is just like something that passes on electricity... Don't forget that's essentially the same as Nanaya Shiki though, so by your logic, a fair fight would be normal Shiki vs Shirou, in which case Shiki would be at an ultimate disadvantage, cos he sucks balls without Nanaya lol.

Another point to that, is with enough training Shirous magic circuit would be alot larger anyway... so... yeah.


I believe a reality marble was explained either in the game or anime, its a projection of the magi's heart, so it exists since he projects his reality or something and I believe it can be destroyed

He is relaying on other people to feed him power still... also he can become like archer, he is not like archer... he CAN become or not

BTW Nanya is SHIKI him self.... its not a different person... so yea its not like rin and shiro
also you are combining all routes in FSN.... chose either UBW or what ever... in this case i say it should be the main route not UBW since i believe type moon decided its the main route... that makes shiro relay on saber to fight and basically be MUCH MUCH MUCH weaker

My Objection still stands...

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Posted 3/14/09 , edited 3/14/09
Shiki vs Shirou Nasu says Shiki would win unless every time unless Shirou has Archers arm.

As even if Shirou's reality marble goes crazy (which has happened in multiple times during Fate falling off a skyscraper and surviving etc.) Shiki would still win.

Edit: my question is Who'd win Satsujinki or Archer? Satsujinki can have all the cover and everything else that makes a Nanaya badass to fight as in a normal straight out fight he would lose miserably. As was said in Red Demon God in an uncountable number of times 'Kiri is the weakest organism here but as long as he kills them without them even knowing what happened he's the strongest' seriously there's like thirty or forty half-demons and he kills pretty much all of them and even takes Kouma's pushes eye back into it's socket with metal DRUMSTICKS just because he had surprise.

Though, a Nanaya can win in a frontal attack if the fight in question is on their own land as also said in Red Demon God there's shooting spears, flying trees, and hundreds of other traps there but another thing is that Nanaya Kiri was able to hurt Kouma by stabbing the same spot at his neck with his drumsticks (All said traps had absolutely no effect on him not even a 2 meter [7 feet] thick tree that shot out at him had no effect and acted as if nothing had happened) multiple times (Kouma was slow but beastly strong if he knew martial arts he would have been even stronger than some Servants. He was so slow Kiri could aim at the same exact point he has been striking at for a lot of times until it finally hurt him.).


Xblacker wrote:

Can i have the doujinshi link to the author and artist of it, i need to prove to an idiot freind that the doujin isn't official lol. BTW you have some good points, but that doujin is pretty bad logic wise, i mean technically UBW should be like air, as in breathing air, to Shiki, i mean Shiki can see air, but he doesn't see death lines in oxygen, but it still exists... For me the UBW is essentially like that. Also the guy who brought up about the poison had a good point, Shiki would easily go blind from trying to concentrate to destroy UBW.

Another point is... You could argue that all Shirou creates technically doesn't exist, because he brought them into existence, they shouldn't have death lines at all.

For me Shirou would easily win. Shiki has to many flaws.


http://www.freewebs.com/aortic/index.htm Look around there at the Tsukihime and Fate doujins and look for Type-Moon Complex X you'll find it.

And Shiki's power is exactly like the concept of Reinforcement ? Look up Reinforcement on Type-moon wikia or fuyuki I'm too lazy to explain it and even if I did it would come out wrong.
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Posted 3/14/09 , edited 3/14/09
Sorry for the double post but I just don't like really long posts they get annoying.

Sandstorm is right there is no Nanaya besides a 9 year old little boy.

All the killings all the beastly nonhuman skills were done by Shiki himself.

In Kohaku's route we see Shiki murdering someone on the fifth night where he kills someone and then proceeds to say things like 'oh well what's done is done' then SHIKI walks in on him they both proceed to take a knife out on each other then they both laugh it off and go out and drink coffee with each other and start talk about philosophies, their abilities (Shiki's eyes and SHIKI's demon blood ability of 'immortal'), and a whole lot of other shit about how humanity likes poison (Shiki even comically says 'should we get cigarettes then we really will look like a couple of bad boys' should I remind you this is coming from a guy with anemia.... Oh yes, lets not forget how Shiki ended the conversation of saying 'forget it you may be more human then me but I'm stronger' I know he said something like that give or take perhaps change a few words as I haven't played Tsukihime in a while.

Also in Kohaku's route in the school after Kohaku is 'killed' he jumps out of the room with beastly speed and appears invisible to a person looking through a heat haze and even runs across the wall and tackles upside down at Akiha while she is surprised and kills her before she gets up then walks away as if nothing happened with a red moon in the background thinking 'Whatever, it's over, it's all over' or somethin' similar this was Shiki not Nanaya. So basically Shiki's biggest fear has already passed (His fear of becoming a killer).
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Posted 3/15/09

Skeithcruor wrote:

Sorry for the double post but I just don't like really long posts they get annoying.

Sandstorm is right there is no Nanaya besides a 9 year old little boy.

All the killings all the beastly nonhuman skills were done by Shiki himself.

In Kohaku's route we see Shiki murdering someone on the fifth night where he kills someone and then proceeds to say things like 'oh well what's done is done' then SHIKI walks in on him they both proceed to take a knife out on each other then they both laugh it off and go out and drink coffee with each other and start talk about philosophies, their abilities (Shiki's eyes and SHIKI's demon blood ability of 'immortal'), and a whole lot of other shit about how humanity likes poison (Shiki even comically says 'should we get cigarettes then we really will look like a couple of bad boys' should I remind you this is coming from a guy with anemia.... Oh yes, lets not forget how Shiki ended the conversation of saying 'forget it you may be more human then me but I'm stronger' I know he said something like that give or take perhaps change a few words as I haven't played Tsukihime in a while.

Also in Kohaku's route in the school after Kohaku is 'killed' he jumps out of the room with beastly speed and appears invisible to a person looking through a heat haze and even runs across the wall and tackles upside down at Akiha while she is surprised and kills her before she gets up then walks away as if nothing happened with a red moon in the background thinking 'Whatever, it's over, it's all over' or somethin' similar this was Shiki not Nanaya. So basically Shiki's biggest fear has already passed (His fear of becoming a killer).


Whoa your a very sharp person and that part where shiki fight a person and then drink coffee was actually SHIKI? I never knew that...

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Posted 3/15/09 , edited 3/15/09

tempest324 wrote:


Skeithcruor wrote:

Sorry for the double post but I just don't like really long posts they get annoying.

Sandstorm is right there is no Nanaya besides a 9 year old little boy.

All the killings all the beastly nonhuman skills were done by Shiki himself.

In Kohaku's route we see Shiki murdering someone on the fifth night where he kills someone and then proceeds to say things like 'oh well what's done is done' then SHIKI walks in on him they both proceed to take a knife out on each other then they both laugh it off and go out and drink coffee with each other and start talk about philosophies, their abilities (Shiki's eyes and SHIKI's demon blood ability of 'immortal'), and a whole lot of other shit about how humanity likes poison (Shiki even comically says 'should we get cigarettes then we really will look like a couple of bad boys' should I remind you this is coming from a guy with anemia.... Oh yes, lets not forget how Shiki ended the conversation of saying 'forget it you may be more human then me but I'm stronger' I know he said something like that give or take perhaps change a few words as I haven't played Tsukihime in a while.

Also in Kohaku's route in the school after Kohaku is 'killed' he jumps out of the room with beastly speed and appears invisible to a person looking through a heat haze and even runs across the wall and tackles upside down at Akiha while she is surprised and kills her before she gets up then walks away as if nothing happened with a red moon in the background thinking 'Whatever, it's over, it's all over' or somethin' similar this was Shiki not Nanaya. So basically Shiki's biggest fear has already passed (His fear of becoming a killer).


Whoa your a very sharp person and that part where shiki fight a person and then drink coffee was actually SHIKI? I never knew that...



It was never OUTRIGHT stated but it was hinted it's at least who most people think him to be not only did he say he has a body that doesn't die easily or whatever he said he just returned to town and he used a knife.

Edit: Even if I put such a convincing argument I don't like the idea of Shiki being Nanaya I just don't like it Nanaya's too cool lol.
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Posted 3/15/09

Skeithcruor wrote:


tempest324 wrote:


Skeithcruor wrote:

Sorry for the double post but I just don't like really long posts they get annoying.

Sandstorm is right there is no Nanaya besides a 9 year old little boy.

All the killings all the beastly nonhuman skills were done by Shiki himself.

In Kohaku's route we see Shiki murdering someone on the fifth night where he kills someone and then proceeds to say things like 'oh well what's done is done' then SHIKI walks in on him they both proceed to take a knife out on each other then they both laugh it off and go out and drink coffee with each other and start talk about philosophies, their abilities (Shiki's eyes and SHIKI's demon blood ability of 'immortal'), and a whole lot of other shit about how humanity likes poison (Shiki even comically says 'should we get cigarettes then we really will look like a couple of bad boys' should I remind you this is coming from a guy with anemia.... Oh yes, lets not forget how Shiki ended the conversation of saying 'forget it you may be more human then me but I'm stronger' I know he said something like that give or take perhaps change a few words as I haven't played Tsukihime in a while.

Also in Kohaku's route in the school after Kohaku is 'killed' he jumps out of the room with beastly speed and appears invisible to a person looking through a heat haze and even runs across the wall and tackles upside down at Akiha while she is surprised and kills her before she gets up then walks away as if nothing happened with a red moon in the background thinking 'Whatever, it's over, it's all over' or somethin' similar this was Shiki not Nanaya. So basically Shiki's biggest fear has already passed (His fear of becoming a killer).


Whoa your a very sharp person and that part where shiki fight a person and then drink coffee was actually SHIKI? I never knew that...



It was never OUTRIGHT stated but it was hinted it's at least who most people think him to be not only did he say he has a body that doesn't die easily or whatever he said he just returned to town and he used a knife.

Edit: Even if I put such a convincing argument I don't like the idea of Shiki being Nanaya I just don't like it Nanaya's too cool lol.


lol and i thought that person who drinks coffee with shiki was that FAKE shiki (the one that akira was mistaken for tohno shiki) and isn't nanaya is the little shiki where you see him in ciel route?
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Posted 3/15/09

tempest324 wrote:


Skeithcruor wrote:


tempest324 wrote:


Skeithcruor wrote:

Sorry for the double post but I just don't like really long posts they get annoying.

Sandstorm is right there is no Nanaya besides a 9 year old little boy.

All the killings all the beastly nonhuman skills were done by Shiki himself.

In Kohaku's route we see Shiki murdering someone on the fifth night where he kills someone and then proceeds to say things like 'oh well what's done is done' then SHIKI walks in on him they both proceed to take a knife out on each other then they both laugh it off and go out and drink coffee with each other and start talk about philosophies, their abilities (Shiki's eyes and SHIKI's demon blood ability of 'immortal'), and a whole lot of other shit about how humanity likes poison (Shiki even comically says 'should we get cigarettes then we really will look like a couple of bad boys' should I remind you this is coming from a guy with anemia.... Oh yes, lets not forget how Shiki ended the conversation of saying 'forget it you may be more human then me but I'm stronger' I know he said something like that give or take perhaps change a few words as I haven't played Tsukihime in a while.

Also in Kohaku's route in the school after Kohaku is 'killed' he jumps out of the room with beastly speed and appears invisible to a person looking through a heat haze and even runs across the wall and tackles upside down at Akiha while she is surprised and kills her before she gets up then walks away as if nothing happened with a red moon in the background thinking 'Whatever, it's over, it's all over' or somethin' similar this was Shiki not Nanaya. So basically Shiki's biggest fear has already passed (His fear of becoming a killer).


Whoa your a very sharp person and that part where shiki fight a person and then drink coffee was actually SHIKI? I never knew that...



It was never OUTRIGHT stated but it was hinted it's at least who most people think him to be not only did he say he has a body that doesn't die easily or whatever he said he just returned to town and he used a knife.

Edit: Even if I put such a convincing argument I don't like the idea of Shiki being Nanaya I just don't like it Nanaya's too cool lol.


lol and i thought that person who drinks coffee with shiki was that FAKE shiki (the one that akira was mistaken for tohno shiki) and isn't nanaya is the little shiki where you see him in ciel route?


Yea, it's the kid with the scarred stomach in Ciel route I don't have an explanation for that but I'm sure some besides Nasu does >_>
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Posted 3/15/09

Skeithcruor wrote:

It was never OUTRIGHT stated but it was hinted it's at least who most people think him to be not only did he say he has a body that doesn't die easily or whatever he said he just returned to town and he used a knife.

Edit: Even if I put such a convincing argument I don't like the idea of Shiki being Nanaya I just don't like it Nanaya's too cool lol.


lol, that's so true!
Posted 5/15/10
shirou cant fight shiki head-on
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