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Post Reply Russia and the US
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Posted 6/17/15
Yes, I fear it. Because the USA and Russia want to pick a fight with everyone. Poor England just sits in the middle hoping they don't get blown up
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33 / M / outer wall, level...
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Posted 6/17/15
i do wonder how long it would take japan to throw together a nuke and IRBM... i mean they have the know how.
and yeah, its funny as hell that russia's tanks are so damn old, but there are a lot of them.
how many abrams are in eastern europe?
the A10 still in service, does russia have a dedicated CAS fighter?
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Posted 6/17/15

nemoskull wrote:

i do wonder how long it would take japan to throw together a nuke and IRBM... i mean they have the know how.
and yeah, its funny as hell that russia's tanks are so damn old, but there are a lot of them.
how many abrams are in eastern europe?
the A10 still in service, does russia have a dedicated CAS fighter?


They have su-25's as a dedicated CAS fighter, but taking to account how many Aircraft Carriers US has i doubt Russia has a chance, America can easily win the war with Air superiority, ground troops don't massively turn the tide in combat lime they used to anymore
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Posted 6/17/15

nemoskull wrote:

i do wonder how long it would take japan to throw together a nuke and IRBM... i mean they have the know how.
and yeah, its funny as hell that russia's tanks are so damn old, but there are a lot of them.
how many abrams are in eastern europe?
the A10 still in service, does russia have a dedicated CAS fighter?


Zero M1A2 if I remember correctly. Japan building a nuke would rip Japan apart from the inside.

England has nukes as well.

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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15
I'm reminded of Tom Lehrer song: "Who's Next"

First we got the bomb and that was good because we love peace and motherhood
Then Russia got the bomb but that's okay because the balance of power is maintained that way

Who's Next

France got the bomb but don't you grieve becuase they're on our side... I believe

...

Egypt's going to get one soon just to use on you know who
So Isreal's getting tense wants one in self defense
The Lord's our shepherd says the Psalm but just in case
we better get a bomb
...
those are all the lyrics I remember but it was a much longer song.

edit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGptO6j3G-U
Posted 6/17/15
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Posted 6/17/15
Russia's only acting aggressively because they know the EU and Obama are weak. If the US ever elects someone competent again, Russia will be out of Ukraine faster than a Communist scrambling for bread.
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Posted 6/17/15

Angerudusto wrote:

Russia's only acting aggressively because they know the EU and Obama are weak. If the US ever elects someone competent again, Russia will be out of Ukraine faster than a Communist scrambling for bread.


Every few premiers, Russia finds someone who misses the Old Days. Or, at least, what the state told them about the Old Days.
Communism was seen as The Great Modern Scientific Experiment, and when it fell, there was nothing to replace it except people struggling to make their own ends meet (including the gangsters), and there's a generally unresolved feeling that they'd like something to happen again, to give them that idealized sense of Purpose again.
Ironically, we felt the same way when we elected Reagan after the 70's.
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Posted 6/17/15
from the meeting with Russia, China and North korea (crazy kim) it looks like they are going to build up something.
I do think some would not care enough for people and could go if we sink everyone sinks *pressing the red button a 100 times*

That I know from another veteran that lives in Russia said that from what he knew the millitary and others didn't know what they are doing and what they should believe (someone needs to take controll in Russia)
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

BlueOni wrote:


gopstop wrote:

+1. The only one who wants war is the one who pojnts fingers...


Did you watch the narrative Russia put out on their activities in Ukraine evolve?

"No. There are no Russian forces operating in Ukraine."

"Well, maybe there are some forces there. But they just got lost, we promise. Our bad."

"Alright, there are members of the Russian armed forces in Ukraine, and they're not lost. They're just on vacation in full gear. Totally not working for us."

"FINE, GOD DAMN IT. We've been in Crimea the whole time, and they've been working for us. But it was totally for the sake of their self-determination, we promise. What? Why did we lie, then? Why were they unmarked? Why did we make spec ops deaths during peacetime state secrets? Why are you so accusative? Are you with NATO? You are, aren't you! Everyone who questions Russia's government is in NATO's pocket! Stop trying to relive the Cold War!"


Well maybe if America didn't fund the Maidan Coup and attempt to put a Nato country on Russia's border to begin with, none of this would have been happening in the first place.

Video Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaR1_an9CnQ
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Posted 6/17/15

bobsagget wrote:


BlueOni wrote:


gopstop wrote:

+1. The only one who wants war is the one who pojnts fingers...


Did you watch the narrative Russia put out on their activities in Ukraine evolve?

"No. There are no Russian forces operating in Ukraine."

"Well, maybe there are some forces there. But they just got lost, we promise. Our bad."

"Alright, there are members of the Russian armed forces in Ukraine, and they're not lost. They're just on vacation in full gear. Totally not working for us."

"FINE, GOD DAMN IT. We've been in Crimea the whole time, and they've been working for us. But it was totally for the sake of their self-determination, we promise. What? Why did we lie, then? Why were they unmarked? Why did we make spec ops deaths during peacetime state secrets? Why are you so accusative? Are you with NATO? You are, aren't you! Everyone who questions Russia's government is in NATO's pocket! Stop trying to relive the Cold War!"


Well maybe if America didn't fund the Maidan Coup and attempt to put a Nato country on Russia's border to begin with, none of this would have been happening in the first place.

Video Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaR1_an9CnQ


Yeah, you have a point. I'm somewhat sorry I brought this thread up. I knew full well where it would go. It was my bad. Yes, we're on their border. If they did the same to us, we'd be batsh*it crazy. I just don't want to see it end in a big mess. Unfortunately, we're heading that way. And we've got leaders crazy enough to do it. Maybe not Obama, but what if someone else gets in? A cowboy? What then? The Internet will be the least of your worries.
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

bobsagget wrote:

Well maybe if America didn't fund the Maidan Coup and attempt to put a Nato country on Russia's border to begin with, none of this would have been happening in the first place.

Video Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaR1_an9CnQ


It sounded like she said the US had invested a good deal of time, money, and political capital in persuading Ukrainian businesspeople, officials, and the general population to support reforms and international agreements they supported (which is called diplomacy and is standard practice in international relations), that she'd urged Yaunkovych to halt further violence against protestors, and that her visit to Kiev had indicated that closer EU-Ukrainian ties were popular.

Perhaps if I hadn't already been made suspicious of Russian claims of conspiracy in Ukraine by nonsensical reports of a civilian airliner being shot down by the Ukrainian air force using equipment which clearly could not have done so and in territory where pro-Russian rebels did have equipment which could do so simply because they thought Putin was aboard, or that the plane had never had passengers and was just loaded down with cadavers from the start, or that troops they'd previously said weren't present were actually present the whole time with their national markings removed and their deaths suppressed by the Russian state, I'd be more inclined to trust pro-Russian accusations against the US.

As it is, however, I'm inclined to be suspicious of this kind of accusation now. You'll need something more solid.


streamhopper wrote:

Yeah, you have a point. I'm somewhat sorry I brought this thread up. I knew full well where it would go. It was my bad. Yes, we're on their border. If they did the same to us, we'd be batsh*it crazy. I just don't want to see it end in a big mess. Unfortunately, we're heading that way. And we've got leaders crazy enough to do it. Maybe not Obama, but what if someone else gets in? A cowboy? What then? The Internet will be the least of your worries.


What were we supposed to talk about in terms of US-Russian relations other than the big item in US-Russian relations right now? I mean, I can switch gears if you want, but where are you wanting this to go?
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Posted 6/17/15

BlueOni wrote:


bobsagget wrote:

Well maybe if America didn't fund the Maidan Coup and attempt to put a Nato country on Russia's border to begin with, none of this would have been happening in the first place.

Video Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaR1_an9CnQ


It sounded like she said the US had invested a good deal of time, money, and political capital in persuading Ukrainian businesspeople, officials, and the general population to support reforms and international agreements they supported (which is called diplomacy and is standard practice in international relations), that she'd urged Yaunkovych to halt further violence against protestors, and that her visit to Kiev had indicated that closer EU-Ukrainian ties were popular.

Perhaps if I hadn't already been made suspicious of Russian claims of conspiracy in Ukraine by nonsensical reports of a civilian airliner being shot down by the Ukrainian air force using equipment which clearly could not have done so and in territory where pro-Russian rebels did have equipment which could do so simply because they thought Putin was aboard, or that the plane had never had passengers and was just loaded down with cadavers from the start, or that troops they'd previously said weren't present were actually present the whole time with their national markings removed and their deaths suppressed by the Russian state, I'd be more inclined to trust pro-Russian accusations against the US.

As it is, however, I'm inclined to be suspicious of this kind of accusation now. You'll need something more solid.


Unfortunately, I have nothing for you. I wish I did. The powers that be will be very careful about this. The US, Russia, and the former Soviet republics will be certain to make sure they are front first. WWIII won't come because of what we do - it will come because of what we don't do.
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

streamhopper wrote:

Unfortunately, I have nothing for you. I wish I did. The powers that be will be very careful about this. The US, Russia, and the former Soviet republics will be certain to make sure they are front first. WWIII won't come because of what we do - it will come because of what we don't do.


I really, sincerely doubt this thing is going to transform into some sort of conflagration between US and Russian forces, much less a nuclear exchange. For all his aggressiveness and drive, Vladimir Putin and Russia's military brass are still people to whom the presumption of rationality may still be applied. The same goes for the US and its own brass. Nuclear peace theory still has some chops left.
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Posted 6/17/15

BlueOni wrote:


streamhopper wrote:

Unfortunately, I have nothing for you. I wish I did. The powers that be will be very careful about this. The US, Russia, and the former Soviet republics will be certain to make sure they are front first. WWIII won't come because of what we do - it will come because of what we don't do.


I really, sincerely doubt this thing is going to transform into some sort of conflagration between US and Russian forces, much less a nuclear exchange. For all his aggressiveness and drive, Vladimir Putin and Russia's military brass are still people to whom the presumption of rationality may still be applied. The same goes for the US and its own brass. Nuclear peace theory still has some chops left.


I hope you're right. I really do. But our relations are at the lowest they've been since the 80's. They're ordering 40 new ICBM's. He threatened to put them on alert after Crimea. I don't trust it. Yes, I have a chip on my shoulder being an 80's kid - they scared the heck out of us back then. It could happen, but I sincerely hope it doesn't. But with the wrong kind of maverick in office, anything could happen.
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