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Posted 6/17/15


That might be the case. Although I can't understand it myself. I'd much rather someone who is nice to me and respects me.
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

megahobbit wrote:

Alright alot of what she complained about is stuff alot of feminists agree on. The fact men are told to inhabit a role as a strong emotionless person is something feminists have talked about in the past.
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Toxic_masculinity


And yet feminists attack "male privilege", while ignoring the fact that there are a number of privileges that come with being a woman, in order to demonize men. I believe that was largely the point of Sargon's video.
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

sundin13 wrote:


megahobbit wrote:

Alright alot of what she complained about is stuff alot of feminists agree on. The fact men are told to inhabit a role as a strong emotionless person is something feminists have talked about in the past.
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Toxic_masculinity


And yet feminists attack "male privilege", while ignoring the fact that there are a number of privileges that come with being a woman, in order to demonize men. I believe that was largely the point of Sargon's video.


Yeah meet any feminist and theyll tell you there are aspects of life were a women has some privileges over men (For example its more acceptable for women to form deep friendships with each other than men). The point feminists make is that the privileges men have greatly outweigh what females have and the system that enforces these privileges inherently benefits men over women.
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15
The nice guys myth is BS. In my experience its only believed by people who fail to realize there own faults and blame a boogeyman of "asshole" instead of trying to fix there own faults.
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15
Guys who are chickens and lacks a backbone call themself "nice guys". Its an excuse for why they are not getting girls.

Also, being nice really only mean that you are not an idiot, and just being not an idiot does not make you a good partner... or even a friend with benefits. Girls avoid you for several reasons, fix those.
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Posted 6/17/15

megahobbit wrote:


sundin13 wrote:


megahobbit wrote:

Alright alot of what she complained about is stuff alot of feminists agree on. The fact men are told to inhabit a role as a strong emotionless person is something feminists have talked about in the past.
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Toxic_masculinity


And yet feminists attack "male privilege", while ignoring the fact that there are a number of privileges that come with being a woman, in order to demonize men. I believe that was largely the point of Sargon's video.


Yeah meet any feminist and theyll tell you there are aspects of life were a women has some privileges over men (For example its more acceptable for women to form deep friendships with each other than men). The point feminists make is that the privileges men have greatly outweigh what females have and the system that enforces these privileges inherently benefits men over women.


Feminist argument is largely laced in hyperbole, overemphasizing half truths. They speak about how "the system" is so heavily biased against women, when you see more woman than men in colleges (and yet affirmative action is in place to skew these numbers even more in favor of women), early education favoring girls, women preferentially hired 2:1 in STEM tenure track, women receiving less harsh punishments in the legal system, women heavily favored for custody in the family court system etc.

There are quite a large number of systems that offer greater privilege to women, while most "male privileges" are social and often somewhat biological. And while feminism on paper supports equality for both sexes, frequently, feminists belittle male issues or downplay the male perspective of general issues.

These are all complicated issues and there are many, many sources coming from virtually every perspective, but I've included just a few below:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/newsweek-cover-the-boy-crisis-53687272.html
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/17/5360
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sKBMcLzRHY
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

Robin929 wrote:

Guys who are chickens and lacks a backbone call themself "nice guys". Its an excuse for why they are not getting girls.

Also, being nice really only mean that you are not an idiot, and just being not an idiot does not make you a good partner... or even a friend with benefits. Girls avoid you for several reasons, fix those.


At a certain age, girls want the "Woo-hooo!" thrills of being loud, obnoxious and self-destructive, because they think it's so individualistically expressive and against what they were "raised" or "expected" to be. Unfortunately, the only avenue they'll find it from are loud, obnoxious and self-destructive guys who really aren't into the Chick Thing, assuming they're not already selfish, abusive or misogynist.

So they somehow end up with the "nice guy" who spent most of his time building a stable career, searching out the comfortable pleasures in life, and looking for a better world where we support each other and don't go out all-night clubbing or shouting "Woo-hooo!" on Saturday nights.
It's that "maturity" thing again, but since women at that age believe they'll eventually find some safety net to take such responsibility out of their hands, and let them continue to be self-centered, they don't go looking for that stability in themselves, and blame the rest of the world when they don't find it.
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Posted 6/17/15
Men must be stopped being told that everything is wrong with them
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

SatoMadoka wrote:
Men must be stopped being told that everything is wrong with them

or atleast from what and who they are.
(making alot of people prejuding about men being dark beings, and the assumption of every men being predators to do harm)
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

sundin13 wrote:


megahobbit wrote:


sundin13 wrote:


megahobbit wrote:

Alright alot of what she complained about is stuff alot of feminists agree on. The fact men are told to inhabit a role as a strong emotionless person is something feminists have talked about in the past.
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Toxic_masculinity


And yet feminists attack "male privilege", while ignoring the fact that there are a number of privileges that come with being a woman, in order to demonize men. I believe that was largely the point of Sargon's video.


Yeah meet any feminist and theyll tell you there are aspects of life were a women has some privileges over men (For example its more acceptable for women to form deep friendships with each other than men). The point feminists make is that the privileges men have greatly outweigh what females have and the system that enforces these privileges inherently benefits men over women.


Feminist argument is largely laced in hyperbole, overemphasizing half truths. They speak about how "the system" is so heavily biased against women, when you see more woman than men in colleges (and yet affirmative action is in place to skew these numbers even more in favor of women), early education favoring girls, women preferentially hired 2:1 in STEM tenure track, women receiving less harsh punishments in the legal system, women heavily favored for custody in the family court system etc.

There are quite a large number of systems that offer greater privilege to women, while most "male privileges" are social and often somewhat biological. And while feminism on paper supports equality for both sexes, frequently, feminists belittle male issues or downplay the male perspective of general issues.

These are all complicated issues and there are many, many sources coming from virtually every perspective, but I've included just a few below:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/newsweek-cover-the-boy-crisis-53687272.html
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/17/5360
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sKBMcLzRHY


http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/newsweek-cover-the-boy-crisis-53687272.html

Article seems to provide two reasons for men falling behind in school
1. A failure to admit there failings and ask for help
2. Living in a divorced household.

1.I know many a feminist would agree with you that there is a pressure put on men to admit there having problem with something. It is part of toxic masculinity. That being said I at least take umbrage with the idea that it has to do with how are brains are built given I have read a lot of books on on how humans learn and little of how we are brains learn has to do with gender.
This will give you the run down though I recommend you pick up a book on its cause its fascinating stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_behavior_analysis

2. Thats... actually something I think some people including feminists need to talk about more. Divorced households do seem to have negative affects on children.

Article contains this

Some scholars, notably Christina Hoff Sommers, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, charge that misguided feminism is what's been hurting boys


Sommers is a nutter and incredibly biased.

That being said I relate alot of both of the boys brought forward in the issue and Ive been and am in similar situations to them myself. But having parents who are teachers both helping out with kids who struggle with learning, having been in programs with kids who have trouble learning, and being a kid who has trouble learning its not a gender issue nor is the solution a gender issue. The solution to this is generally helping fix shitty schooling. Are school system is incredibly fucked up and focused on pumping out drones instead of focusing on individual talent.

http://www.pnas.org/content/112/17/5360

Did you read the study. It says there is a lack of women in academia. The study is saying that the hiring program is not the reason why there is a lack of women academia.

That being said studies as such can be non-indicative of actual hiring policies. A common example of this is Black Coffee. Most people in studies and focus groups will say they like a rich dark coffee yet sales figures show the exact opposite with most people liking weaker coffee. People will say they like Black Coffee cause it sounds better and more appealing yet its not. Sending people on sexist hiring practices I imagine most peoples thought process would go "Im not sexist and ill prove it now" and hire more females when in real life they would hire more men. Sexism affects us on a subconscious level.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html
Thats actually a legit point to be made against the prison system though it mostly lies on sexist thinking that the women is "weaker" and "wont cause as much trouble" All this pales into comparision though with much greater injustices that the prison system creates. If it were up to me the whole prison system needs an overhaul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sKBMcLzRHY

Woah Sommers again. Id like to point out that this women supports GamerGate. You support GG and your names not Ninouh I instantly discard your opinion.
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

SatoMadoka wrote:

Men must be stopped being told that everything is wrong with them


Not what feminists are saying. They are saying that there is a system that inherently benefits men in society.
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

megahobbit wrote:
Not what feminists are saying. They are saying that there is a system that inherently benefits men in society.

He didn't mention feminists and could you please stop bringing them up before you know it there will become a rave party..
I would like just not to mention them in this thread.
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Posted 6/17/15

megahobbit wrote:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/newsweek-cover-the-boy-crisis-53687272.html

Article seems to provide two reasons for men falling behind in school
1. A failure to admit there failings and ask for help
2. Living in a divorced household.

1.I know many a feminist would agree with you that there is a pressure put on men to admit there having problem with something. It is part of toxic masculinity. That being said I at least take umbrage with the idea that it has to do with how are brains are built.

2. Thats... actually something I think some people including feminists need to talk about more. Divorced households do seem to have negative affects on children.

Article contains this

Some scholars, notably Christina Hoff Sommers, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, charge that misguided feminism is what's been hurting boys


Sommers is a nutter and incredibly biased.

That being said I relate alot of both of the boys brought forward in the issue and Ive been and am in similar situations to them myself. But having parents who are teachers both helping out with kids who struggle with learning, having been in programs with kids who have trouble learning, and being a kid who has trouble learning its not a gender issue nor is the solution a gender issue. The solution to this is generally helping fix shitty schooling. Are school system is incredibly fucked up and focused on pumping out drones instead of focusing on individual talent.

http://www.pnas.org/content/112/17/5360

Did you read the study. It says there is a lack of women in academia. The study is saying that the hiring program is not the reason why there is a lack of women academia.

That being said studies as such can be non-indicative of actual hiring policies. A common example of this is Black Coffee. Most people in studies and focus groups will say they like a rich dark coffee yet sales figures show the exact opposite with most people liking weaker coffee. People will say they like Black Coffee cause it sounds better and more appealing yet its not. Sending people on sexist hiring practices I imagine most peoples thought process would go "Im not sexist and ill prove it now" and hire more females when in real life they would hire more men. Sexism affects us on a subconscious level.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html
Thats actually a legit point to be made against the prison system though it mostly lies on sexist thinking that the women is "weaker" and "wont cause as much trouble" All this pales into comparision though with much greater injustices that the prison system creates. If it were up to me the whole prison system needs an overhaul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sKBMcLzRHY

Woah Sommers again. Id like to point out that this women supports GamerGate. You support GG and your names not Ninouh I instantly discard your opinion.


Early Education:

The early school system in general is largely tailored towards girls, ignoring the fact that girls and boys differ biologically in their development and what it takes to get them engaged. That source wasn't standing alone:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/05/the-war-against-boys/304659/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1055395/Boys-raw-deal-school-education-tilted-favour-girls.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10616/Is-school-biased-boys.html
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/why-boys-are-failing-in-an-educational-system-stacked-against-them/

In feminist discussion, the issue of getting schooling more tailored to women and girls isn't uncommon, yet there is very little actually being done to move towards improved early education for boys, despite this research. The issue is most often brushed away saying things such as "boys just aren't trying hard enough", which completely misrepresents the issue.

Women Preferred 2:1:

Yes, I did read the study, however, I stand behind the idea of equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. In a field where men are applying at significantly greater rates, if women with the same credentials are preferred 2:1, that is gender bias and not equality of opportunity. If men are applying at greater rates, then it is only logical that they would hold the majority of the jobs in that field.

However, I was using this to show that "the system" does not hand male's privilege. In fact, it seems to outwardly try to take away that privilege (most prominently in areas with affirmative action, however, this is an example of it at work more subtly).

That particular study also did a number of things to minimize the effect of the "I'm not sexist and I'll prove it effect", such as emphasizing different variables to make it appear to be testing something other than gender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f6rQfpd68o

Sommers:

If your rebuttals consist of nothing but irrelevant ad hominem, then I will not take them seriously.

Conclusion:

You seem to be disconnected from modern feminism by some of the concessions you made, and because of that I don't disagree with you fundamentally. However, while you concede that the school system and the prison system need overhauls, these types of things are not on the agendas of the majority of feminists. I don't think you understand the true extent of feminist extremism, and because this topic is about privilege and not feminism, I don't think this is place to go over all of their double standards, censorship, willful ignorance, hyperbole and gendered attacks against men. However, on the topic of privilege, feminism shows that it doesn't hold the same standards to both males and females, it relies on outdated or falsified statistics, it misrepresents the facts or makes unsupported assertions and it largely does more harm than good.
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Posted 6/17/15
You know I have this friend from school that used to work and study at the same time, but not anywhere, in a bilingual call center. In those time that meant money, there was that crush for him that he would do anything and she discovered it, my friends and I could only see him speeding his money on her. They weren't even in a stable relationship just only 2 persons that know each other and the only that we could hear was " pay here and there , invite me to the cinema" we had to literary treat him harsh to him stop seen her, that did work in part only 3 years later we could see that he thanks us.

From that day on all girls in school took that example. To this day there are few girl at age of early 20s that work for they get their own things , this is a perception from a dude in a third world country where stereotypes are still valid. I have lost the acaunt of how many times I see "fisher girls" on collogue just to pick up guys. In my 20 years of life never ever seen a female connect a single VGA cable from a PC to a Projector, "there is a man that help with this out?"

I have only witness three know female that have a though male life, yeah that means fixing stuff form their own because nobody would do that for you.
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

Freddy96NO wrote:


megahobbit wrote:
Not what feminists are saying. They are saying that there is a system that inherently benefits men in society.

He didn't mention feminists and could you please stop bringing them up before you know it there will become a rave party..
I would like just not to mention them in this thread.


YES HE DID. 25:56


If there are any feminists watching this I hope you paying attention.


He directly addresses feminists.
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