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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/18/15
Protesting the wrong way is an utter waste of time. Most of the people in those mobs don't even know what they are protesting. There are unspoken injustices around the world as well. Just because someone doesn't want to or can't stand in the sun with picket signs doesn't mean they don't care.

I help people who need help on the street when I'm sure they aren't trying to rob me or bum money off me for lottery tickets and drugs. If someone needs a jump and I see it, I'm there. It doesn't matter if they are women or men. And it doesn't matter what race they are. And I hate to say it, but there is injustice and misfortune all over the world. I can't do anything on a large scale by myself, so I do what I can during everyday life. I'm not idealistic enough to think everyone will be treated equally just because we protest. I'm not a big, strong, or aggressive guy. And I'm not so brave that I'm willing to risk my life for strangers who don't know I exist. If I can't even stand on my own two feet, how am I supposed to protect other people? I'm no hero just as 999999/1000000 of you are not heroes. Just as most of you are cowards, so am I. The last thing we need is people who believe feminism is more important than humanitarianism. I'm sure to receive flak for this, but people need to be realistic so I don't really mind. You can choose a pipe dream and a grand display if what is essentially a powerless whine that turns people against you or you can choose to perform small but meaningful actions and follow a code of conduct.

Donate to charity when you can. If you have things you don't need, donate them. Help people who are in trouble when you run across them while doing your thing. Shun gossip and don't be slanderous. Make a good impression on strangers. Volunteer and/or donate blood once in a while. Be polite to people and mind your manners. Recycle. Compost. Don't waste food or water and don't kill or hurt animals if nobody means to eat them. Don't kill or hurt people unless you are in danger of being wounded or killed. Call me old fashioned, but is it really that hard of a concept? Imagine how great it would be if just half of the population did this.
Posted 6/17/15

Morbidhanson wrote:

We need humanitarianism and environmentalism, not feminism.

Anyway, I think it would be really cool if there was some sort of thought experiment set up where they hire a professional makeup artist and temporarily turn husbands into women and their wives into men. And have them walk around the city to do their thing for a day or so. It would be even better if these people were writers or journalists who can tell us what their experiences were like.

I'm pretty sure transmen and transwomen can already tell you that now. Because of the fact they have actually experienced both sides of being a male & female in society from where they were born to when they transition. The journalists will only give you a day of experience, which is practically nothing.
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

megahobbit wrote:

Thats not censorship. Censorship is when a government comes down to ban something. People protesting is not censorship. Protests, and Petitions to have something removed is not censorship. Action Bronson was not censored cause people try to unite to get him kicked off the a festival for his rape lyrics. GTA 5 was not censored cause it was banned in Target in Australia(though Australia has some legite cases of game censorship). The PMRC was censorship and so was the Frankenchrist obscenity trail. People bringing legal action against someone for saying something is censorship not a protest or petition to an organization. When Greensboro NC said they would refuse to answer emergancy calls for any store that sold Body Counts- Cop Killer that was censorship.

With the rise of the internet nothing in the US at least can be meaningfully censored. In the early 90s refusing to stock something in a certian area based on public demand would have been censorship with the internet know its not. If the local church petitions a store to stop stocking Danny Brown albums I can go out an order one on the internet or just download it there.

That being said you posted a link to Info Wars run the Alex "MASS MURDER PILLS" Jones who believes in all sorts of conspiratorial BS.


Censorship: Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions

In this case, a group (Modern Feminist Movement) are suppressing speech considered to be objectionable, harmful, politically incorrect and inconvenient. Seems pretty textbook to me. Denying dissenting opinions the ability to speak is a pretty shitty thing to be doing regardless of what you call it and the harm should be self evident. College is supposed to be a place for student's ideas to be challenged but it is increasingly becoming a group think hugbox, and the idea that feminism is untouchable is extremely dangerous, potentially damaging people's ability to make informed decisions on a number of subjects.

Feminists for banning teaching of Rape Law:
Again, your ad hominem attacks mean absolutely nothing in this context. These are things that happened. Your opinion of the people reporting on it is irrelevant. Here are four more sources stating the exact same thing, and if you don't find any of these acceptable, I will find more:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/2/5/law-school-rape-law-discussion/
http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/16/profs-have-stopped-teaching-rape-law-now#.thymns:hOyl
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rape-law
https://www.thefire.org/harvard-law-professor-students-want-profs-drop-classes-rape-law/
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

sundin13 wrote:


megahobbit wrote:

Thats not censorship. Censorship is when a government comes down to ban something. People protesting is not censorship. Protests, and Petitions to have something removed is not censorship. Action Bronson was not censored cause people try to unite to get him kicked off the a festival for his rape lyrics. GTA 5 was not censored cause it was banned in Target in Australia(though Australia has some legite cases of game censorship). The PMRC was censorship and so was the Frankenchrist obscenity trail. People bringing legal action against someone for saying something is censorship not a protest or petition to an organization. When Greensboro NC said they would refuse to answer emergancy calls for any store that sold Body Counts- Cop Killer that was censorship.

With the rise of the internet nothing in the US at least can be meaningfully censored. In the early 90s refusing to stock something in a certian area based on public demand would have been censorship with the internet know its not. If the local church petitions a store to stop stocking Danny Brown albums I can go out an order one on the internet or just download it there.

That being said you posted a link to Info Wars run the Alex "MASS MURDER PILLS" Jones who believes in all sorts of conspiratorial BS.


Censorship: Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions

In this case, a group (Modern Feminist Movement) are suppressing speech considered to be objectionable, harmful, politically incorrect and inconvenient. Seems pretty textbook to me. Denying dissenting opinions the ability to speak is a pretty shitty thing to be doing regardless of what you call it and the harm should be self evident. College is supposed to be a place for student's ideas to be challenged but it is increasingly becoming a group think hugbox, and the idea that feminism is untouchable is extremely dangerous, potentially damaging people's ability to make informed decisions on a number of subjects.

Feminists for banning teaching of Rape Law:
Again, your ad hominem attacks mean absolutely nothing in this context. These are things that happened. Your opinion of the people reporting on it is irrelevant. Here are four more sources stating the exact same thing, and if you don't find any of these acceptable, I will find more:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/2/5/law-school-rape-law-discussion/
http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/16/profs-have-stopped-teaching-rape-law-now#.thymns:hOyl
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rape-law
https://www.thefire.org/harvard-law-professor-students-want-profs-drop-classes-rape-law/


You cant be meaningfully censored anymore in America by a media outlet or any other institution besides a government unless your in a place with no internet.

Know onto the whole College thing. To start I reject the idea that College is a place to be challanged. Fuck that College is a place to get a degree and the moment colleges get the fuck off there high horse and realize there place we can get better colleges.

That being said what you provided is not censorship. I disagree with it and think that a law class should obviously teach that material and I have no problem with teachers alerting there students that they would be going over such a subject if it is potentially traumatic to them. But a college professor getting petition to drop talking about a rape law is not censorship. Why? because If I wanted to know about said law I can Google it. The idea/fact/issue is not being censored until a government body comes down and bans all talk of the issue and blocks google searches of it.

This is a good video on the subject.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/9893-What-Really-Is-and-Isnt-Censorship
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Posted 6/17/15

megahobbit wrote:

You cant be meaningfully censored anymore in America by a media outlet or any other institution besides a government unless your in a place with no internet.

Know onto the whole College thing. To start I reject the idea that College is a place to be challanged. Fuck that College is a place to get a degree and the moment colleges get the fuck off there high horse and realize there place we can get better colleges.

That being said what you provided is not censorship. I disagree with it and think that a law class should obviously teach that material and I have no problem with teachers alerting there students that they would be going over such a subject if it is potentially traumatic to them. But a college professor getting petition to drop talking about a rape law is not censorship. Why? because If I wanted to know about said law I can Google it. The idea/fact/issue is not being censored until a government body comes down and bans all talk of the issue and blocks google searches of it.

This is a good video on the subject.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/9893-What-Really-Is-and-Isnt-Censorship


I don't have a problem with you not considering this type of thing to be censorship. The point is that feminism is largely silencing other opinions and points of view.

I do however disagree that things cannot be meaningfully censored. Hypothetically, if large news outlets were solely reporting one side of a story that clearly has two sides and the other side is buried in the deepest depths of the internet, that is meaningful. A large portion of the populace are only hearing one side of the story and are being told that side is the only worthwhile point of view. This means that they will form a conclusion based on insufficient information and they may use that information to influence their actions. Thats a problem.

Additionally, I disagree with your opinion of the direction the education system needs to go. The problem with the education system is it teaches you information as opposed to how to think and how to learn. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will eat for life, ya know? If the goal of education is to create an intelligent, informed populace then yes, the idea that college is a place to be challenged is tremendously important. Additionally, college is a time when people are forming their opinions on a lot of different subjects and due to their delocalized nature, they often have input from many different perspectives. Silencing discussion is again, extremely harmful to the development of informed opinions and an informed populace.
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Posted 6/17/15

megahobbit wrote:
But a college professor getting petition to drop talking about a rape law is not censorship. Why? because If I wanted to know about said law I can Google it. The idea/fact/issue is not being censored until a government body comes down and bans all talk of the issue and blocks google searches of it.

it could become censorship of material,
Or for himself what he can teach by the years get censored? (is that not a way to use censorship as?)
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Posted 6/17/15

Freddy96NO wrote:


megahobbit wrote:
But a college professor getting petition to drop talking about a rape law is not censorship. Why? because If I wanted to know about said law I can Google it. The idea/fact/issue is not being censored until a government body comes down and bans all talk of the issue and blocks google searches of it.

it could become censorship of material,
Or for himself what he can teach by the years get censored? (is that not a way to use censorship as?)


Self censorship is kind of a shorthand term that isnt real censorship.

And its not censorship of a material unless a government went in an banned it.
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Posted 6/17/15

sundin13 wrote:


megahobbit wrote:

You cant be meaningfully censored anymore in America by a media outlet or any other institution besides a government unless your in a place with no internet.

Know onto the whole College thing. To start I reject the idea that College is a place to be challenged. Fuck that College is a place to get a degree and the moment colleges get the fuck off there high horse and realize there place we can get better colleges.

That being said what you provided is not censorship. I disagree with it and think that a law class should obviously teach that material and I have no problem with teachers alerting there students that they would be going over such a subject if it is potentially traumatic to them. But a college professor getting petition to drop talking about a rape law is not censorship. Why? because If I wanted to know about said law I can Google it. The idea/fact/issue is not being censored until a government body comes down and bans all talk of the issue and blocks google searches of it.

This is a good video on the subject.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/9893-What-Really-Is-and-Isnt-Censorship


I don't have a problem with you not considering this type of thing to be censorship. The point is that feminism is largely silencing other opinions and points of view.

I do however disagree that things cannot be meaningfully censored. Hypothetically, if large news outlets were solely reporting one side of a story that clearly has two sides and the other side is buried in the deepest depths of the internet, that is meaningful. A large portion of the populace are only hearing one side of the story and are being told that side is the only worthwhile point of view. This means that they will form a conclusion based on insufficient information and they may use that information to influence their actions. Thats a problem.

Additionally, I disagree with your opinion of the direction the education system needs to go. The problem with the education system is it teaches you information as opposed to how to think and how to learn. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will eat for life, ya know? If the goal of education is to create an intelligent, informed populace then yes, the idea that college is a place to be challenged is tremendously important. Additionally, college is a time when people are forming their opinions on a lot of different subjects and due to their delocalized nature, they often have input from many different perspectives. Silencing discussion is again, extremely harmful to the development of informed opinions and an informed populace.


Like I said before I disagree with the call to have this topic not be spoken of in class.

I may have been to hasty in my calling out of colleges. What I meant was colleges should probably hold a less important opinion of themselves. Debate is necessary and should be handled throughout your schooling and there is a startling lack of understanding on how to handle books in schools IE we should discuss themes not fill out fucking bubbles.

I dont think that Feminism is largely about silencing opinions. Unlike what some people might believe there is no feminist gulag were your all brainwashed into holding one view without any debate whatsoever. I have met many a person who has been completely challenged by feminism itself going into college and discovering more about how they think of gender through it.

I dont really see any mass feminist silencing of discussion. The articles you provided just brought up more discussion and debate the first one was a person arguing for why it should be in. Thats not silencing discussion its creating more of it.
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Posted 6/17/15
See, you're adhering to the feminist definition of censorship. You'll notice that the feminist definition of censorship is made in such a way that feminists cannot be blamed for any harm done.

Just saying.
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Posted 6/17/15
Then why all of the vitriol surrounding the discussion? Why is it that MRA conferences have been shut down by feminist protestors? Why do women need women-only safe spaces? Why is it that in courts of law, patriarchy theory is taken into account when determining who to prosecute in domestic violence cases? Why is discussion handled like a fight or a riot?

It sounds like these people want other people to believe a certain set of "Facts", rather than have a discussion about the possiblities of why the "facts" are as they are.

I'm a post-nihilist, let's say I got a bunch of other post-nihilists together and started rioting because not everybody believes in nihilism and that some things in the world have worth that isn't arbitrarily assigned based on an almost worthless set of criteria. If I got enough people together to make it risky to speak out against us and made a point of making it known, wouldn't that be censorship even though the threat of tangible harm would only be implicit?
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Posted 6/17/15

invertedteapot wrote:

Then why all of the vitriol surrounding the discussion? Why is it that MRA conferences have been shut down by feminist protestors? Why do women need women-only safe spaces? Why is it that in courts of law, patriarchy theory is taken into account when determining who to prosecute in domestic violence cases? Why is discussion handled like a fight or a riot?

It sounds like these people want other people to believe a certain set of "Facts", rather than have a discussion about the possiblities of why the "facts" are as they are.

I'm a post-nihilist, let's say I got a bunch of other post-nihilists together and started rioting because not everybody believes in nihilism and that some things in the world have worth that isn't arbitrarily assigned based on an almost worthless set of criteria. If I got enough people together to make it risky to speak out against us and made a point of making it known, wouldn't that be censorship even though the threat of tangible harm would only be implicit?


>Post-Nihilist...

Like im nihilist but im edgier.

If you get enough people to protest everyone not being nihilist I have no problem with you. If you threaten legal action or try and beat people up to get people to be nihilists I have a problem with that.
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Posted 6/17/15 , edited 6/17/15

invertedteapot wrote:

See, you're adhering to the feminist definition of censorship. You'll notice that the feminist definition of censorship is made in such a way that feminists cannot be blamed for any harm done.

Just saying.


Not a feminist definition I used BTW.
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Posted 6/18/15
Nah, nihilism is the belief in nothing. Post-nihilism is the only word I have for it to be honest, it could be something else. Value is a human construct, and we cherish things based on sentimentality, rarity, and practicality. We assign value to things based on these criteria, and then we all go out to work to buy these things at values we have either assigned or have allowed to be assigned.

These things that you've described are things that the feminist movement at large is doing right now. I also think that it's important to point out that you've been very vocal about GG being a bad thing, but in this convo back and forth you've pointed out numerous times that feminism isn't a solid group with clear-cut goals or ideals. I think it's more than a little bit ironic that you're willing to demonize GG for their behavior as a result of this and excuse the activities of the other side. I don't know what that's called, but that's not an unbiased assessment of the debate.

Also, the definition you used certainly wasn't the one from Oxford or Merriam-Webster. Whose definition are you using then, and how have you invalidated my point?
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Posted 6/18/15
A thread with a ton of different topics cramed into it, ain't that fun. Let's go at random.

The nice guys finishing last. Yeah, they have nobody but themselves to blame, the guys precieved as assholes are just abusing women being hypergamous by upping their value in the eyes of women. Generally a man who has options is considered of higher value, "nice guys" don't have options. This is a rather simplified version of what's going on, but I'm way too lazy to write a very long post hardly anyone would finish.

@megahobbit, how exactly does being in support of GG invalidate someones opinions on other, unrelated topics in any way? I hate smokers, but I am not going to dismiss their opinions on other, unrelated topics.

About men not being able to express their emotions, they are thaught from a very young age that expressing their emotions is wrong. Mostly by women and feminists who call their expression of emotions toxic masculinity. So boys learn that they have to bottle up their emotions and feminists earn cookie points by acting all concerned about a problem they themselves create and perpetuate.

Also something something blah blah blah I forgot what else there was.
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Posted 6/18/15 , edited 6/18/15
so something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixU--XgF0GM
Where most in that room didn't think about his emotions and what he could do if you really pissed him off (What I am saying is that they exepect the good guy to stay good no matter what turning into a worse case)

nichtmalda wrote:
About men not being able to express their emotions, they are thaught from a very young age that expressing their emotions is wrong. Mostly by women and feminists who call their expression of emotions toxic masculinity. So boys learn that they have to bottle up their emotions.

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