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Should a transgender fighter be allowed to fight women?
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Posted 6/18/15
No, plain and simple.
Posted 6/18/15 , edited 6/18/15

severticas wrote:


anzn wrote:

If he wasn't a boxer, it probably would.
If he was part of a more mainstream sport like football or basketball (especially a very big one) definitely.

Actually, I don't have to say anything about this. Either way, it doesn't affect what I wrote.

Did I read what you wrote wrong? My bad.
I was saying, if his history of domestic violence against women would hurt his image much more (to like the point he might lose his job anyway) if he was in a even more popular sport in entertainment like football or basketball.
Posted 6/18/15 , edited 6/18/15

anzn wrote:


severticas wrote:


anzn wrote:

If he wasn't a boxer, it probably would.
If he was part of a more mainstream sport like football or basketball (especially a very big one) definitely.


So? What does that tell you about what he can and cannot do?

Did I read what you wrote wrong? My bad.
I was saying, if his history of domestic violence against women would hurt his image much more (to like the point he might lose his job anyway) if he was in a even more popular sport in entertainment like football or basketball.




The argument is flawed but I get what you mean in that boxing is seen differently to other sports or occupations in general.

In the first place, Miss_Take's comment about Mayweather beating up women is to some extent irrelevant apart from her mentioning to take it to the boxing ring (ridiculous but hey, hatever works.
Posted 6/18/15

severticas wrote:

The argument is flawed but I get what you mean in that boxing is seen differently to other sports or occupations in general.

In the first place, Miss_Take's comment about Mayweather beating up women is to some extent irrelevant apart from her mentioning to take it to the boxing ring (ridiculous but hey, hatever works.


You threw in an off-topic Mayweather meme, sir. I was just trying to incorporate it. Hmph!
Posted 6/18/15

_MissTake_ wrote:


severticas wrote:

The argument is flawed but I get what you mean in that boxing is seen differently to other sports or occupations in general.

In the first place, Miss_Take's comment about Mayweather beating up women is to some extent irrelevant apart from her mentioning to take it to the boxing ring (ridiculous but hey, hatever works.


You threw in an off-topic Mayweather meme, sir. I was just trying to incorporate it. Hmph!


It was relevant and you know it :p

In a way, i'm kind of taking the piss out f both feminists and humanists so we'll leave it at that
Posted 6/18/15

severticas wrote:

It was relevant and you know it :p

In a way, i'm kind of taking the piss out f both feminists and humanists so we'll leave it at that


Oh no, no.. Don't invite those people in here. I don't want no -ists in this thread, young man!
Posted 6/18/15 , edited 6/18/15

_MissTake_ wrote:


severticas wrote:

It was relevant and you know it :p

In a way, i'm kind of taking the piss out f both feminists and humanists so we'll leave it at that


Oh no, no.. Don't invite those people in here. I don't want no -ists in this thread, young man!


Anyway.

Sports people at some point become just assets, same for any other entertainer...their value lies in their potential to make money whatever the weather. And yes, sometimes the money is tied in with their reputation more heavily than their ability/sustainability.

Mybe the campaign to remove this trans person will work but whatever..at least you know why it would work if it does.

Just think of all the crappy snacks and drinks they say is good for your health. Now, it's chocolate a day that is good for you lol emphasizing chocolate and not just anything sweet.
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Posted 6/18/15
I think it's up to the individual fighters. They should meet some time before the match and discuss with civility the facts of transgenderism. The fighters should each know about transgenderism and a contract should be signed to seal the deal. There should be no added pressure on the fighters to enter the agreement to fight. It's not as though they are forced to fight. It's that they agree to enter the ring to compete against one another.

Let's be honest, if medical experts can really testify honestly that Fox does not have an unfair advantage, well.....none of us are that sort of medical expert.

I don't see much of a problem as long as there's no wonky, underhanded stuff going on. If Fox isn't allowed to compete in the women's division, where can she compete? Probably can't go back to the men's division. And it's hardly fair to shut out an athlete who has been training and preparing so intently to fight for the entertainment of the public.
Posted 6/18/15

Morbidhanson wrote:

I think it's up to the individual fighters. They should meet some time before the match and discuss with civility the facts of transgenderism. The fighters should each know about transgenderism and a contract should be signed to seal the deal. There should be no added pressure on the fighters to enter the agreement to fight. It's not as though they are forced to fight. It's that they agree to enter the ring to compete against one another.

Let's be honest, if medical experts can really testify honestly that Fox does not have an unfair advantage, well.....none of us are that sort of medical expert.

I don't see much of a problem as long as there's no wonky, underhanded stuff going on. If Fox isn't allowed to compete in the women's division, where can she compete? Probably can't go back to the men's division. And it's hardly fair to shut out an athlete who has been training and preparing so intently to fight for the entertainment of the public.


You say it depends on what the experts say about what makes Fox different yet the bold part means you are clear on transgenderism as a whole being of somewhat an issue. So long as the trans looks a little weaker perhaps, it's permissible..is that what you mean?

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Posted 6/18/15

dotsforlife wrote:

Throwing aside the whole debate going on in the other thread about transgenders, this particular situation basically boils down to a man beating on women. I know I'm putting that simply, but that's what it is. Fox is at an unfair advantage and abusing the transgender status to do so.

That's not okay and I don't care which side of the argument people are on with the transgender issue. This is pretty obvious. Besides, if I recall correctly Fox wasn't exactly doing well in the mens fights. Kind of makes me wonder if that had anything to do with this.


So what you're saying is that a transgender man-to-female isn't exactly a female? I feel like it's more complicated than that.
Think of it this way. I've seen guys that could get beat up by a girl and i've seen girls that could beat a guy up easily. Some people are just bigger than others. It's the same thing as a tiny girl fighting a giant muscular female.
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Posted 6/18/15 , edited 6/18/15

severticas wrote:


Morbidhanson wrote:

I think it's up to the individual fighters. They should meet some time before the match and discuss with civility the facts of transgenderism. The fighters should each know about transgenderism and a contract should be signed to seal the deal. There should be no added pressure on the fighters to enter the agreement to fight. It's not as though they are forced to fight. It's that they agree to enter the ring to compete against one another.

Let's be honest, if medical experts can really testify honestly that Fox does not have an unfair advantage, well.....none of us are that sort of medical expert.

I don't see much of a problem as long as there's no wonky, underhanded stuff going on. If Fox isn't allowed to compete in the women's division, where can she compete? Probably can't go back to the men's division. And it's hardly fair to shut out an athlete who has been training and preparing so intently to fight for the entertainment of the public.


You say it depends on what the experts say about what makes Fox different yet the bold part means you are clear on transgenderism as a whole being of somewhat an issue. So long as the trans looks a little weaker perhaps, it's permissible..is that what you mean?



I mean what I type. The fighters should have to agree to fight without any underhanded stuff going on. Just in case some of them think it's unfair, they don't need to fight her. But if they agree, no whining about how unfair it was since they knew about the situation beforehand.

Medical stances and personal stances are different. Some will think it's an actual issue regardless of what the professionals say, so they shouldn't fight if they don't want to. Problem solved.
Posted 6/18/15 , edited 6/18/15

severticas wrote:


anzn wrote:


severticas wrote:


anzn wrote:

If he wasn't a boxer, it probably would.
If he was part of a more mainstream sport like football or basketball (especially a very big one) definitely.


So? What does that tell you about what he can and cannot do?

Did I read what you wrote wrong? My bad.
I was saying, if his history of domestic violence against women would hurt his image much more (to like the point he might lose his job anyway) if he was in a even more popular sport in entertainment like football or basketball.




The argument is flawed but I get what you mean in that boxing is seen differently to other sports or occupations in general.

In the first place, Miss_Take's comment about Mayweather beating up women is to some extent irrelevant apart from her mentioning to take it to the boxing ring (ridiculous but hey, hatever works.


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Posted 6/18/15
How does she/he pass the new drug testing that was just passed if she takes hormones which most Transgender people do its kinda like East Germans back in the 70s those women almost became men from roids
Posted 6/18/15 , edited 6/18/15

Morbidhanson wrote:


severticas wrote:


Morbidhanson wrote:

I think it's up to the individual fighters. They should meet some time before the match and discuss with civility the facts of transgenderism. The fighters should each know about transgenderism and a contract should be signed to seal the deal. There should be no added pressure on the fighters to enter the agreement to fight. It's not as though they are forced to fight. It's that they agree to enter the ring to compete against one another.

Let's be honest, if medical experts can really testify honestly that Fox does not have an unfair advantage, well.....none of us are that sort of medical expert.

I don't see much of a problem as long as there's no wonky, underhanded stuff going on. If Fox isn't allowed to compete in the women's division, where can she compete? Probably can't go back to the men's division. And it's hardly fair to shut out an athlete who has been training and preparing so intently to fight for the entertainment of the public.


You say it depends on what the experts say about what makes Fox different yet the bold part means you are clear on transgenderism as a whole being of somewhat an issue. So long as the trans looks a little weaker perhaps, it's permissible..is that what you mean?



I mean what I type. The fighters should have to agree to fight without any underhanded stuff going on. Just in case some of them think it's unfair, they don't need to fight her. But if they agree, no whining about how unfair it was since they knew about the situation beforehand.

Some will think it's an actual issue regardless of what the professionals say, so they shouldn't fight if they don't want to.


Come on, don't be a plank. You will have to find a way for Fox to want to agree with this contract.. nothing helping her there.

That's the type of ideas for a contract say, managers (sign along with the talent) in order to rip off stars.

Edit: Replying to the bolded part btw. The first stuff is not really adressing anything, underhanded stuff have little to do with it.. at east disqualification is in place since anyone can be accused of that offence.
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Posted 6/18/15 , edited 6/18/15

severticas wrote:

Come on, don't be a plank. You will have to find a way for Fox to want to agree with this contract.. nothing helping her there.

That's the type of ideas for a contract say, managers use t rip off stars.


True. Perhaps I'm being a little idealistic since people do some real bad things when money is involved, even if they already have plenty.

I want to say that Fox probably knew that going under the knife to become transgender was going to affect her career in some way, shape, or form. There's no way such a big athlete would not have been aware. I'm sure the surgeons and doctors informed her of the effects and she had plenty of time to think about them. She assumed that risk and chose to undergo the procedure at that time. She was probably also aware of the transgender controversies and did it anyway.

I'm more in favor of preventing two people from fighting in the ring if they do not wish to. Health and autonomy are more important than getting a few extra fights. Sucks that she's possibly losing out on some matches, but this was a very foreseeable problem and she's, at least, still allowed and able to compete. The managers will have to deal with that. I can't really think of other incentives to get people to fight her if they perceive that they would be fighting an unfair fight.

I'm sure fans will complain but they aren't the ones actually being affected by these problems and they are still paying to watch, so that's on them.
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