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Post Reply Censorship now Civil war content
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21 / M / Massachusetts
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Posted 6/25/15 , edited 6/29/15
While I understand that apple's removal of games might have been overzealous and caught many undeserving games up in its net. This isn't censorship. It's the same as Target not selling GTAV in Australia. Corporations and businesses like these have every right not to sell something or make it available. It is not censorship because the content is still allowed to exist, no government laws are in place banning it, it is instead a company deciding they don't want to sell that content or be associated with it.

This is the fundamental misunderstanding when people complain about their free speech being violated or censored nowadays. The plain truth is no one owes you a platform, and you are not owed an audience. If people think what you're saying is obnoxious, offensive, or something along those lines, they can tune you out and ridicule you. If a company like Twitter, Steam, Target, Reddit etc. decides they don't want to deal with your bullcrap they are well within their rights to kick you off their platform. You can still say what you want, still create what you want, but just because you can talk doesn't mean anyone has to help you be heard. Apple doesn't have to allow games with neo-confederate themes on their store front if they decide it's against their interests. Wouldn't saying they have to allow these games to be published on their store be infringing on their own free speech rights? Though that having been said Apple would have been well advised to exercise more discretion and examined the games they removed before deciding if they want to boot them.

Also on a side note. FUCK THE CONFEDERATE FLAG. I don't give two solitary shits if you think it is about Southern Pride, it is an emblem both of treason and slavery, only popularized after the civil war. It is perhaps an emblem of southern pride in the same sense that the Nazi's appropriated Swastika is a symbol of German pride. Yes, I know about Godwin's law, but you know what I think the comparison is MORE than apt in this case. Fuck the Confederacy, it was founded on the basis of racism, slavery, and obstinacy. It was a rotted, despicable union, and is best left to fester as a putrid reminder of America and the Human species sordid history and capacity for utterly repulsive behavior
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26 / F / North Carolina
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Posted 6/25/15

BlueOni wrote:

If this constitutes a violation of the terms of their agreement with some third party, that's one thing. If this is simply a row about a vendor deciding not to carry a particular item in their stock or on their network, that's another. One's a legitimate complaint. The other is not. Freedom of speech does not entail that people have to provide you with a pulpit to shout from.


QFT

I know the knee jerk reaction for people regarding censorship and anything deemed "PC" is to get indignant and complain about overly sensitive people but let's not kid ourselves here. As someone who's lived in the South all her life, it's not hard to see the type of people that usually fly this flag and why they do so. Their cars are covered in Confederacy stickers with slogans like "The South will rise again" and generally declaring themselves as rebels. What was one of the major reasons the South rebelled again? Oh. Right. To keep people with my skin color as their personal form of cheap labor.

No major corporation in their right mind should have to support this type of crap.

That said, yes, removing historical games as well is just lazy and stupid. But it's Apple.
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29 / M / Atlanta, GA, USA
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Posted 6/25/15
Eh, the civil war was fought only to prevent some states from seceding from the union and for no other reason.

The civil war resolved that no, it is not legal to secede from the union.

There was just some ambiguity about the constitution that's been cleared up, now.

I think we can all agree that it's nice that slavery is over with in the USA and fine that states can't secede, but a shame that such matters weren't resolved peacefully.

As for censorship, BlueOni makes a good point that she should be able to ban sad clown paintings from her art gallery. Of course, it's fine if people want to complain about sad clown paintings being pulled from art galleries for no good reason, as well. In the end, it's just down to whether or not customer expectations are applying enough pressure to influence a company's decision one way or the other.
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Posted 6/25/15

Gorthen wrote:

I don't really see the point in banning something offensive as long as it is used in a historically accurate context. The confederate flag is shown in some movies, but you don't see apple taking those off its store.


In regards to Apple not doing anything about movies with the Confederate flag in them I want to think it is because they are looking at it in a similar way to how the Germans ban the Swastika with some exceptions. That being so long as it is used in an educational manner or in an artistic manner it is fine (at least to my basic understanding, keyword is basic, according to posts I have seen regarding this topic and my own limited knowledge on the subject).
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36 / M / Houston, Texas
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Posted 6/25/15 , edited 6/26/15
I could care less not like anyones learning anything anymore anyways.
Fuck History.
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25 / F / United States
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Posted 6/25/15 , edited 6/25/15

Freddy96NO wrote:

Apple have begun removing civil war content from the stores
http://toucharcade.com/2015/06/25/apple-removes-confederate-flag/

Do we see too much censorship in all medias and other content these days?
(atleast begun with such agian)

Where America these last months have becomed very sensitive about any content that could effect anyone? (first schools, on TV and now this a few topic's back maybe around 6 months)

Music: Dash Cancel (Ultra Street Fighter IV)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSkPdl43nNw


Lol, it's only censorship if the government made Apple pull apps containing the flag. Apple pulling them if their own volition is a decision made by a private company and have every right to do so.
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M / Houston, Tx
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Posted 6/25/15
Think it less censorship but protection.

If people never knew the idea of Slavery, they would not embrace the idea of it- Nay?
Rohzek 
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26 / M
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Posted 6/25/15 , edited 6/25/15

vanguard1234523 wrote:

While I understand that apple's removal of games might have been overzealous and caught many undeserving games up in its net. This isn't censorship. It's the same as Target not selling GTAV in Australia. Corporations and businesses like these have every right not to sell something or make it available. It is not censorship because the content is still allowed to exist, no government laws are in place banning it, it is instead a company deciding they don't want to sell that content or be associated with it.


There is much truth to this. This is not on the scale of government censorship. However, censorship isn't strictly limited to laws or government action. Companies big and small are capable of it too, just not on the same scale.

At any rate, I doubt we'll ever get a good Civil War FPS now...


Kanade_Yagami wrote:


Freddy96NO wrote:

Apple have begun removing civil war content from the stores
http://toucharcade.com/2015/06/25/apple-removes-confederate-flag/

Do we see too much censorship in all medias and other content these days?
(atleast begun with such agian)

Where America these last months have becomed very sensitive about any content that could effect anyone? (first schools, on TV and now this a few topic's back maybe around 6 months)

Music: Dash Cancel (Ultra Street Fighter IV)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSkPdl43nNw


Lol, it's only censorship if the government made Apple pull apps containing the flag. Apple pulling them if their own volition is a decision made by a private company and have every right to do so.


The following comes from the Oxford English Dictionary. In particular, see definition 3. It might be their right, and no one is disputing that. Nevertheless, it is still a disconcerting move. Governments are not the only ones who can employ censorship, although the scale is significantly smaller in such cases:

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24 / F / The moon
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Posted 6/25/15
So is the American flag, but I don't hear the natives complaining. I think the stars and bars should come down too.
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24 / F / The moon
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Posted 6/25/15 , edited 6/28/15
I agree with you bobland on that. No one is in a rush to rid of black power's flag completely from existence. America = hypocrites
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29 / M
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Posted 6/25/15 , edited 6/26/15
everyone take some books put a confederate flag on it than burn it while uploading the video on youtube lol
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23 / M / south dakota
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Posted 6/25/15 , edited 6/28/15
You are taking the flag way out of context just like the people who use it as you cite are doing. The flag is a battle flag for a group of people who enjoyed their life and were having it taken from them by "Big" government who they recently they rebelled against in the form of the British and saw this as the same thing. There is no reason for you to like it how ever it shouldn't be removed from everything let alone games that show a close representation of that time. To ban something from being talked about does nothing except remove it from memory which will let people repeat it, and i hardly want that and i doubt you do ether.
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Posted 6/25/15
Censorship now F-bombs

(pshh the word is fuck)
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31 / M / Minnesota, USA
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Posted 6/25/15
Welcome to murica, land of the sensitive pansies. Although that seems like it would be offensive to flowers....ah well!
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23 / M
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Posted 6/25/15
Senbonzakura
This song has the Japanese rising sun flag in it.
The one from world war two.
It's probably more offensive than the confederate flag, but I doubt most people care about it.
Should that video be removed from Youtube?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Flag
How about this wikipedia page?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
How about this one?

It's a flag; a symbol. The only power it has is what people give it.
Banning the sale of civil war games, which are probably educational in nature, isn't a very good response.
Apple might be trying to avoid offending people, but it's also helping to set a precedence of fear. Fear that somebody might be offended by something, and that the only response is to shield them from things in the world too painful to look at.
History happened. It's over. Move on. If somebody's racist, there's not much you can do about it other than ignore them and convince them they're wrong.
If you fight them, they'll polarize against you.
Don't even wish ill-will on them. The thought alone is poison.
Remember

“The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate.

Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”

Martin Luther King, Jr.


I'm not okay with censoring history. It's a symbol. If you see racism in it, reject everything it stands for. But it's only a symbol. Don't give it power over you. History is full of blood. Look it in the eyes, reject the hate, and keep moving forward.
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